Bad Comms And Teams
edge_eblan
Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10161Members
Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10161Members
<div class="IPBDescription">to lazy to look for one already made</div> i was playing ns, and i joined a european server, and the aliens won no problem, cuz the whole team were noobs, there plan was to get to weapon lvl 3 first, then... um... not even sure what comes next. The base had no defenses, well except mines... no turrets, no people no nothing. We didnt get commands until the aliens had all 3 hives!!! we didnt do anything except sit there and wait for weapons lvl 3 and armor lvl2!!! we didnt even get rts!!! so it took forever to get anything done!!! after that, the aliens fade rushed us, and guess what?! They won!!! The next game, is say "Tfs!!!" and they reply "Tfs in the base? that is so unprofessional, what are u a nooB?" later in that game, we were losing, (what a surprise), i quit cuz they still wanted "mines." One comm finally made a tf and turrets, but then he left, and the next comm RECYClED THEM!!! So we were losing, and they still dont have an idea why!!! ne1 tell me where my logic is failing in my "NooBness of wanting turrets at the base for defense?!" Or are they right and you dont do tfs? which then defeats the purpose of base defense, doesn't it?
Comments
If you have plenty of money to take the time to hold an area, I consider turrets + mines to be a really good combo for public play.
but then how do you go out and fight if the base will be destroyed when the you leave? Or how do you build when a skulk is biting you to death? Or how can you use max efficiency when most of the team is sitting as defense, others are building, and others are ramboing? It is impossible to do all things without tfs. Marines suffer enough with rambos, but when a team has no turrets, the team cant attack cuz they have no defense. Also, after a while, im sure mines get pretty expensive, and a turret can outshoot its value, especially in large numbers, or with siege cannons.
The turret is made for defense, so isnt it reasonable to build a tf in your base?
Firstly it costs 20 res for the tf, 19 for a turret (witch you need atleast 2 if the comm knows something) and there you have it 58 res. And with that you could have made some resource nodes, or maby motion tracking, or maby an arms-lab.
Lets say you have 1 pack of mines 8res and the person who is placeing them knows what he is doing, you can cover 80% of what the tf is covering with 8 res, give the man 2 packs and the base is covered from skulks. And nowadays 2 turrets will not hold back 1 circle-strafeing skulk, he will take them down. But 1 pack of mines will, and but then you have to mine again.
And now because it is the base, and you have motion tracking (I usually get it) people will be respawning in your base to stop skulks, so you are quite free to expand with you resources, and have some res to spare.
But ofcourse you might get someone who doesn't know how to place mines and that might make you waste 8res, or you might have a team which will die to 1 skulk, or a comm who asks "how do I get out?". And in those situations you are pretty mutch screwed. But in the long run a turret factory is not worth the res.
If you have plenty of money to take the time to hold an area, I consider turrets + mines to be a really good combo for public play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree with you there, that makes sense, but the team i was playing with was no where near competent
i agree with you there, i like to get rts first, but the team that i played with (which is why i posted this in the first place) didnt even do that!! turrets can be waste, but if you have 2 or 3 rts, then it is no problem, besides, getting lvl 3 weapon without rts is also a waste, cuz by the time you get it, they got fades, and you lost anyway, (it happened to us).
exactly, the way i look at it, (except in eclipse, one or 2 turrets works well, but i still like the rts for comfort... and rp)
If you're playing with 2-3 good marines in a 10v10+ then it's curtains for the aliens, unless you're a goob.
Tfacs in the base are, generally, only a good idea if the marines can't hit skulks.
As for TFs, I suggest ALL marines put down TFs at start. That way we can relax and roast you at our leisure considering with level 2 cara I can take down at least one TF a run...unless you're staying in base and have good aim, which kinda defeats the whole purpose of TFs doesn't it? So that means every...30 seconds or so you'll lose a turret. And I only need to kill enough to expose a vital spot on the TF or to expose your armory or IP or comm chair. And if you put up enough turrets to cover ALL of those ( I can't think of a map that's easy to do with 4 turrets at start.) then we'll just res rape you and have our second hive up before you put up your second res node.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> ownage
As for TFs, I suggest ALL marines put down TFs at start. That way we can relax and roast you at our leisure considering with level 2 cara I can take down at least one TF a run...unless you're staying in base and have good aim, which kinda defeats the whole purpose of TFs doesn't it? So that means every...30 seconds or so you'll lose a turret. And I only need to kill enough to expose a vital spot on the TF or to expose your armory or IP or comm chair. And if you put up enough turrets to cover ALL of those ( I can't think of a map that's easy to do with 4 turrets at start.) then we'll just res rape you and have our second hive up before you put up your second res node.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> ownage <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you really like to rape a lot dont you? you also say that a lot in the respawing costs rp topic (which i also started, are you trying to tell me something?)
oh, and i feel so much better about the one response thing, no really, i do
*cough* La Blue Girl *cough*
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
"TF in base isnt necessary, just make sure theres always one marine in base"
p.s. I'm sure some of you will be replying with posts like "what if 5 skulks come, is one marine gonna stop 5 skulks? NO, LOL"
Please think before you write something like this, will 3 turrets really stop 5 skulks? NO, LOL
If you can, having a base of operations in or really close to a hive is a good way to hold onto the game. Since you're so close to their homebase, they ain't gonna like you too much though so you'll have to have something there in case nobody is there (off capturing hive #2).
Tf before any of those 3 in base already means you're asking to fight a battle in your home base. It's one thing to secure, it's another to attack. Marines who fail to keep attacking will die at hive 2 with the onslaught of fades, regardless of where the tfac is. Pointless resources squandered on turrets often will do better for upgrades.
But... and this is what others are forgetting, edge_eblan described a situation where the team was purposefully turtling up. The main problem with turrets in your base is you're spending resources that could have gone to phase gates or upgrades to help the offencive. Also, they sit there doing nothing when not attacked. That is why it's bad to build them at base. But if you're already going to be sitting at base, hurting your offencive abilities isn't an issue. I'd say that there is no reason in the world not to get a TF in base if you're turtling (without going for a super fast JP rush) up anyway.
Btw, weren't fades 66 rp and turrets 15 rp? im pretty sure they were before, why did that change? werent fades good enough without a price drop?
ok, ignore the fade bit, no point in changing it into a "fades are to good" "no they are not" "yes they are" "rush them with jp" "but that doesnt work" "use ha" "but then you are to slow" "just chase them" type of conversations.
not necessarily true, tho, as i remember 1 game where there were like 5-10 defense chambers right under the hive, and maybe 3 offense chambers. Also, the turrets are defensive, (or am i wrong?), so y not in the base? the siege cannons dont do anything against lerks, so why bother building them at base?
The reason you don't see it is because marines have ranged attacks as opposed to melee attacks like the humans. (this and the resources are better spent elsewhere if you've got a camping crew).
Aliens who don't defend their hives are either owning you already or just plains stupid. The reason they must defend their hive is simply the fact that marine pressure will slaughter them if they don't.
If they do not listen and base is undefended u could still hop out the cc urself intime to kill the incoming skull, ofcourse mines would ease this process.
Besides u could even lock down an area by making a pg and armry at a good rt place or hive (hive seems the smartest move but u can not lock an area since there are always 2 ways to a hive and even a vent maybe).
I did a tax like this on a pub and it seemed to work very well since the skulks got attracted by the small "undefended" bases, the rines were attracted by the skulks so they guarded the places and the rts were save, we had only 1 hive, but by the time they were throwing the 2nd one up we had jp and 3 gunupgrades wich made it easy to kill their first hive (this needs a team of rines of course but just take a good placement for a armry base (as i call it, but it also has a pg) and the rines will easily move to the hive direction together. This does not always work but its a pretty fun way <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If u lose 1 or 2 of these bases u could consider u and ur rts dead...
[edit] oops typo <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> [/edit]
-K
yay, thanks for backing me up, you i think are the first, not only to support me, but even i lost sight of the question after reading so many posts! Yes, early turrets are bad, but when the first priority is to get lvl 3 weapons, (not even rts to get res fast enough), and then complain y you are losing, might as well have spent the rp on turrets.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Indeed - many time's when I join a game and happen to go marine I end up pulling the hair (well actually I shave my head regularly ) out cuz the marines are just camping in their base and a n00b comm is wasting the last res on something like a TF and ONE turret. Gahhh. And does he make the turret cover a large area? No, he puts it behind a freakin' box or something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree, that is a pain in the @$$, i dont seee what the point of that is, at least make them targets for the aliens, so that a marine can shoot and survive before he gets shot at (and if the turret survives, repair it, and you can restart a simple base defense trick, until they realize the plan). But i hate it most when anyone doesnt try to get a few rts, how the hell do you equip a team without rp?!!!
Oh, turrets are not always bad for base defense, in 1 game, the aliens had the whole map and 2 hives, (we had the last place), we only survived for 2 hours cuz they sucked and they couldnt get past 5 turrets, (thats right, just five), they took one down, we rebuilt, they thought we were turret farming, and 1 guy asked where we got our rp, and the admin said "Suck (that was the comm name, really!!), stop making turrets or you will be banned!" He told us we were turret farming, but we had 5 or six, it was hilarious, they eventually won, but that was cuz Suck left, and we had no good comms after that.
oh, and keyser, is your avatar one of the dog monsters from Final Fantasy VI, (III US, or comes with Antholohy on the PS), i think the name is "Ralph" or something like that, although the mechancial parts you added.
If you're playing with 2-3 good marines in a 10v10+ then it's curtains for the aliens, unless you're a goob.
Tfacs in the base are, generally, only a good idea if the marines can't hit skulks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Playing "Good Marines" means they should group themselves somewhat and divy up the task or either defending, building or attacking. Perhaps the new groups ability for the Commander role will aide in making marines more useful together.