Day Of The Cosmonaut
eggmac
Join Date: 2003-03-03 Member: 14246Members
Join Date: 2003-03-03 Member: 14246Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">The impact of 12.4.1961</div> Today, exactly 42 years ago, the first human being entered the orbit of the earth with a space ship. This man was Youri Gagarin, a Soviet cosmonaut. It was a great technological (and human?) achievement.
Do you think that this event was of great importance for humanity? Was it a remarkable progress for the human race? Will space flights be even more important for our future lifes?
Or was this space race just a political race without any value for human beings? Does this scientific achievement lead us further away from being humans, further away from nature and our true values? Does it imply too many risks for man and should we be less keen on such technology in the future?
In my view, Youri Gagarin was a hero of the best fashion and he paved the way for a new chapter in human development!
But you may have another opinion... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Do you think that this event was of great importance for humanity? Was it a remarkable progress for the human race? Will space flights be even more important for our future lifes?
Or was this space race just a political race without any value for human beings? Does this scientific achievement lead us further away from being humans, further away from nature and our true values? Does it imply too many risks for man and should we be less keen on such technology in the future?
In my view, Youri Gagarin was a hero of the best fashion and he paved the way for a new chapter in human development!
But you may have another opinion... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
I don't know how going into space does anythign except help this race advance. As far as saying that something is 'unnatural'... everything we do is natural. We are human beings, and all of our outputs are part of the natural scheme. I could quote George Carlin, but I'll spare everyone here. I don't know what these 'true values' are that people always speak of. Perhaps like religion, it's all in their heads and inexplanable...
Yuri gagarin was the first of many ants to begin scouting the base of the tree, nearby, several smaller trees (venus, mars, the giants, etc) look promising. Problem is, people arent too interested in survival of the species, so this post is a moot point...
So, Gagarin's flight was definitely an achievement in human history. It marked the beginning of our scientific journey to live outside of the Earth. Whether this ever actually happens though, is still up in the air.
First of all, you have the problem of dispersing a large number of people from cities, then getting them all that firewood and food from local sources, not to mention educating them on how to survive and cultivate. Then, after a number years, greenhouse emmisions from all the cattle herding and wood burning from 6 Billion people will lead to eventual ecosystemic collapse, just as it would have if we'd had technology, difference is, with technology, we have a chance to survive and rebuild. Without it, we're essentially screwed.
Man is not successful because he is adaptive, man is successful becuase he has the brains to make the tools suited to a particular task. With tools and technology, we are weak and vulnerable. I'd also like to see what the amish will do when hostile aliens start knocking on earths door <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Technology got us into the mess of eco collapse, but technology will have a hand in getting us out if we have the incentive to develop it. Fusion power, genetically engineered foods that eliminate malnutrition, and space travel providing an incentive for emmigration offworld will all work towards stabilising the ecosystem (or rebuilding it after collapse) and taking the pressure off mother nature.
Who knows? Perhaps it's destiny, we will wind up destroying our habitat and perhaps, just perhaps, a few dregs of humanity may escape and launch themselves into the heavens and begin anew. To the descendants of our civilization, we may be as primitive, mysterious and pivotol as Australopithecus or Homo-Erectus is to us, maybe...
Space is the future, if we don't try to explore it will be the end of the human race.
Oh man, that would be funny if it weren't so true.
Here's the thing, The Green Eye seems to think there is no discussion for this thread, but I say, nay! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Here's the thing, if man being launched into orbit is all we do, is that really that great of an accomplishment? I'm sorry, but I don't think so. Until travel between planets in our own solar system, let alone our own moon, is a normal thing, we really haven't done much to insure that the human species doesn't just die out with the planetary eco-system that supports us thanks to our selfish polution. Hell, maybe if we made it to other planets, earth could unite to fight other humans from mars or something, who needs aliens, we can kill each other like we always have.
Exploration of space is a very natural and important thing. It's in effect, what homo erectus, neanderthal, and cromagnon did on a macro scale. Without migration and exploration out of the central southern plains of Africa, there would be no human race. Humans expand to survive, and there's plenty of the universe to go around... 'terran isolationism' is no answer.
I can go on for thousands of pages if you like. Try to look above your surroundings and think of the big picture.
...Space program is the science itself. Are you saying we should just give the money to private researchers to do work here on earth? Space is the next frontier my friend, and we have much to learn and gain from its exploration.
Plus, without the space program, we'd probably be stuck with science fiction involving fantasy monsters or maybe sea kingdoms. LAME!
As for your waste of resources... explain why your country (with no space program) somehow still has poor people and injustice. Wasn't all that money in Germany spent better your way? I have a few million turkish immigrants in deutchland that would disagree... how about all those great german postwar inventions that helped the world, like... ehhh... what were they again?
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Monsy, I disagree with you, though (as usual).
Please, don't tell me anything about how inventions work or how scientific discoveries take place. I doubt that you know more about it than I do. Anyway, that's not the topic.
By the way, Germany has a space program, together with other European nations. It is the ESA. And there is a lot of German technology up there in space. But I think there are much more important things to invest into. With the technology boom taking place people seem to forget about social problems which are ever-present.
Besides, you misunderstood me (as usual). I am not saying the space program is bad, I am just suggesting that there is too much emphasis on it and that there is unproportial investment into it. Your argument about its side-efffects does not count because it is not what the space program is about. You don't need 100.000.000.000 $ to invent a semiconductor.
I have the feeling that you just want to find something in my view on which you can disagree, Monsy, without any real purpose behind it...
I mean, it's not hard to understand that the amounts of resources spent on the space program are very large, is it? Look at the Soviet Union. It's vast spending on space and military finally led to its collapse, it was too expensive.
Cronos: Peace through strength. Thank you for generalize war though. Those Iraqis looked pretty miserable. Same with Americans, having the burden of Saddam lifted. War creates misery for SOME, not all. The needs of the many outway the needs of the misery few. Theres the standard attack now that I'm hypocritical for saying that and not being in harm's way... I really can't counter that... but I do intend to join the Army Reserve if that means anything.
The US 2003 Federal Budget total was for just under $2 Trillion dollars ($1,972,000,000,000)
For that year, the following were budget allotments for what can be considered 'human welfare' kinds of programs (there are more I know, but these are the big boys):
Department of Agriculture: $76 Billion
Department of Education: $48 Billion
Department of Health and Human services: $459 Billion
Department of Housing: $31 Billion
Department of Labor: $59 Billion
Department of Veterans Affairs: $51 Billion
And for the space program, you ask?
<b>National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA): $14.5 Billion</b>
That's right! 2 whole percent of that total of $724 Billion. There's your unproportional investment (and if you take it out of the US total annual Federal budget, it's %0.7). If you admit that you were mistaken on this, I can honestly say I will probably drop dead of a heartattack right now.
As an aside: And anyone here can tell you anything they want about scientific invention - it's a discussion forum. Are you saying otherwise? Your whole post is entirely too confrontational. Get it under control now, please, and stop being so hyper-sensitive and thin-skinned. If discussion is hurting your feelings, you should not be participating.
ps: source - <a href='http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2002/maindown.html' target='_blank'>http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2002/maindown.html</a>
Would you accept me admitting it in place of him? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
People are going to die, wars are going to start and end, disease, famine, poverty..all these things will happen. Our only hope as a species is that we somehow manange to evolve and learn, and get past our baser instincts. There is nothing bad that comes out of the space program, and many good things do.
I would prefer to have it there, and to keep exploring. With-out a goal as a speices, what are we but mindless drones, breeding, living and dieing. We are gifted in that we are actually going to be aware of our own evolution. Just think of how amazing this truely is, and how wonderful. Part of this gift is that we must learn...about our selves, about our soceity, and....about our universe.
Back to the topic at hand, after the events of the Challenger (er, did I get that right?) Space Shuttle disaster, which I honestly still think could've been caused intentionally, in many ways could have been averted if NASA already had their next generation reuseable space shuttle bids made and tested, so they wouldn't have to rely on 30-50 years old technology so heavily. They already new about areas of weakness on the current space shuttles in use and its limitations, which would have been addressed in the new space shuttles, giving more safety for crews, better payloads, possibly at an even cheaper launch costs, and safer for the enviroment. But as previously stated, they are getting very little of the American budget and even less from other governments. And as also previously stated, some feel that spending is too much as it is, the space program is seen as socialy expendable. I feel that is far to near-sighted and that the amount given to the NASA should increase, ALOT, so that they entire program can be brought into the 21st century. Right now it seems they are sporadically upgrading this section of the bureacracy or this component of a piece of equipment, but that never really addresses the whole picture. More money for space travel so we can rise above our problems by facing new ones! Discuss. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I feel the same way, but he seems to be having a hard time distinguishing it. Perhaps he will earn to use PM's when he thinks moderators are being unjust. Perhaps...
And I also agree with your points on NASA. If anything, its tiny slice of the government pie (to reiterate for those keeping score - about 1/2 of 1 percent) is too low. Even a 50% increase would be enough for me, as the program's scientific spinoffs and discoveries pay for the space program in the uncountable billions every year, not to mention the unknown millions of lives saved by somethign as simple as a cardiogram monitor, for example, or freeze-dried food that keeps starving 3rd world populations alive during a drought.
Did you know that up until the mid 1990's, they were still using those paper-printout computers you always see from old film of the Apollo moonlandings in the 60's to launch the shuttles? They got their first pentium-based PC networks in the control room in the past couple years. Amazingly penny-pinching. Although that was also very much due to NASA hubris - 'those computers got us on the moon, they're good enough for you!' is a paraphrased quote of one NASA manager, when younger engineers brought up the concept of modernizing...