Pay Attention To Where You Put Structures
SecretFire
Join Date: 2003-01-02 Member: 11712Members
Join Date: 2003-01-02 Member: 11712Members
<div class="IPBDescription">TSA marines are a little claustriphobic</div> Often times when I'm playing, people will lay out a base with absolutely no regard for where they put things. Obessesing over where you put things might seem a little silly, but it's actually quite important. A good marine base requires 2 things:
1. An easy path to all necessary structures, ips, armory and phase gate.
2. Lots of empty space to move around and shoot incoming skulks.
Often when the marines relocate, you see structures being placed all over the area in a somewhat random pattern. Once turrets start getting placed, it's a clogged nightmare. There is a problem with this: The small spaces and confusion of a clogged up base gives skulks a major advantage. Without distances between them and the skulks, and room to dodge, marines have a much harder time of defending.
Also, when the marines are forced to crouch jump around the base, they get to the armory and phase gate much slower, and it's quite possible to get several telefrags as people try to move around the base past ips and phase gates.
Another big problem you run into is handing stuff out, especially HA/MHG. Trying to get a good group together when there's no space to put them in is rather difficult. You end up having to drop items all over the base, and hope the people can grab their stuff and form into a nice little group.
So when you relocate, pay attention to space, and make sure the marines don't have to go through a maze to get where they need to go.
1. An easy path to all necessary structures, ips, armory and phase gate.
2. Lots of empty space to move around and shoot incoming skulks.
Often when the marines relocate, you see structures being placed all over the area in a somewhat random pattern. Once turrets start getting placed, it's a clogged nightmare. There is a problem with this: The small spaces and confusion of a clogged up base gives skulks a major advantage. Without distances between them and the skulks, and room to dodge, marines have a much harder time of defending.
Also, when the marines are forced to crouch jump around the base, they get to the armory and phase gate much slower, and it's quite possible to get several telefrags as people try to move around the base past ips and phase gates.
Another big problem you run into is handing stuff out, especially HA/MHG. Trying to get a good group together when there's no space to put them in is rather difficult. You end up having to drop items all over the base, and hope the people can grab their stuff and form into a nice little group.
So when you relocate, pay attention to space, and make sure the marines don't have to go through a maze to get where they need to go.
Comments
- roachems[AR]
Start getting turret farm locations that are like obstacle courses for the rines.
This setup is nice because the marines have easy access to the buildings they need and everything else is in one spot for easy turreting/mining.
And: Shoud there be more turrets in a base than the amount required to effectively cover all angles?
Also, if you lose a building (unless its an rt) NEVER put it in the same spot, it died for a reason!
Furthermore, if your going 2 have more than one IP, DON"T put them next to eachother! A single skulk can sit above the ips, or next to them and eat everyone as soon as they spawn, this is especially true if the ips are next to a wall.
Hope this helps.
1.) Build your infantry portal (IP) one portal's-length away from a corner in your main spawn (preferably against the wall).
2.) Once the IP is completed place a turret factory (TF) in the corner behind the IP.
3.) Place a sentry turret (ST) at the corner of the TF which should place the ST adjacent to the IP.
4.) Drop your second IP on the other side of the TF which will effectively create a wall that the ST can shoot over, prevents circle strafing of said ST, and covers both the ground and walls from skulk spawn camping attempts. The key here is that the IPs are low enough that the ST can shoot any target without being impeded thus forcing skulks to sit still if they wish to do any real damage. (this step can be completed later if you do not need the second spawn immediately)
5.) Place one ST on top of your resource tower (RT). You may have to try many times to accomplish this as there are only certain spots that you can stack them on. Placing it off the ground makes it very hard to circle strafe AND allows it to shoot over the RT and into the rest of the base.
This is a pretty solid base defense that prevents clutter because you're building a corner and stacking on the RT. If your RT's ST can "see" the IP's ST then build your armory at the halfway point of a direct line drawn between the two. This provides cover from all angles and leaves plenty of room for the "humping". As for advanced and costly structures, simply place them anywhere along a wall and drop a ST on their far corner to provide cover. Preferably these STs would also have angles on the central armory providing even more cover and crossfire.
If you have any concerns about the cost of this, well, I have not lost a spawn yet. Not to a skulk rush anyways... Not for a good hour or so of intense gameplay. And, if you missed the opening please note: I explain my use of the TF concisely in my other post, Marine Tactic #9.
-OldManRipper
As a skulk preparing for a base attack the first thing I'll do is go on a scouting mission. I probe to find gaps in there turret coverage, make a loose mental map of the base layout, and <i>find flaws in their structure placement</i> that might play to my advantage.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1.) Build your infantry portal (IP) one portal's-length away from a corner in your main spawn (preferably against the wall).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure it's a good idea to make IPs right next to walls. Sometimes when you are chomping at an IP from the ground and someone respawns there is a tiny chance that marine can leap off the IP before you can kill him. This might be due to armour upgrades (Not enought chomps) or the positioning of your chomps (Your weren't angled high enough to actually damage the marine).
With an IP against the wall I can elevate myself up the wall, hang at respawn height and bite downwards. This way I can chomp the IP and be pretty confident that any Marines who spawn will also be covered by my bitegun.
I build my IPs in the corner but I allow enough space so that a skulk can't reach the IP hanging from the wall.
-OldManRipper
-OldManRipper<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've read your post.
I should have clarified in my prior post;
<b>If you don't plan to get a Tfac for your Main Base</b> it is best not to put an IP right against the wall because of the popular tactic I posted above (which many people are aware of)
But <i>if</i> I was going to get a Tfac for base (As a Comm I prefer a Base Guard and Mines) your layout advice would come in handy.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5.) Place one ST on top of your resource tower (RT). You may have to try many times to accomplish this as there are only certain spots that you can stack them on. Placing it off the ground makes it very hard to circle strafe AND allows it to shoot over the RT and into the rest of the base.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know if I would ever recommend stacking marine structures as a Comm. Like you said, it is so hit and miss to purposely stack in the command console (I can't anyways) and I think there has been talk that it will be removed in v1.1 anyways.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...prevents circle strafing...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do like the fact that you take this into consideration for your layout. Structure placement can total affect a skulk's ability to circle strafe and chomp a turret/building. I can see that this IP/Tfac/Turret placement could be awfully effective in pubs, <i>expensive</i> but effective.
Next time I need to build a Tfac in base early or make a relo to Hive I'll try it out.
-OldManRipper
if you put the armory in the middle of the room, you will often have four or five marines seeing only it, making armory sounds (which sound like a skulk dinner bell to me!)
put that armory in a difficult place and some amrines will complain, but what they dont kno is that while theya re complaining they are providing very good human base defense!
Similarly, a too-compact base will make skulks harder to hit as they dart in and out of buildings, and will make it difficult for your amrines to reach the PG or leave without running into someone who just respawned and is running to the armory.
Structure placement is very important that designing your buildings so that they are built into the walls allows for better coverage. Build the Tf as close to the pg as possible and both into the wall if possible away from any vents so to prevent lerk harassment. By building into the wall you have cut off areas of attack a skulk can attempt to try on it as well as increase your turret coverage since there is no need to cover a side which is in a wall. If your trying to fend off a skulk rush in the beginning I prefer to use mines. Although they cost 8 res and it is only a one time use they are VERY effective in providing coverage. As for spacing, you want your structures close yet not far from each other because you close open gaps for skulks to exploit. If your afraid about the skulks giving your marines a hard time then use the mines to help complement your defenses so that skuls dont have the advantage of close quarters battle in your crowded structures, even more so it makes it even more dangerous for the skulks when there is mines in narrow gaps, where there is only ONE way to go...
You should never use mines as your only means of securing a hive. Because they get used up, you need quite a few to keep it secure, and they are stationary. So use a mixture to your advantage and be sure to tell the marines where you want them before you give them the pack... I always end up giving out alot because they dont put it where you want them which is around the buildings. Instead, they place them in the entrances of the hive areas... *sigh* It's not bad to do that but they really should have placed them around the buildings first.
Also, skulks to chomp the ip and marine only need to run into it and then jump once. You will find yourself floating on the edge where the marines respawn. At this position, you can chomp the ip and chomp at any marines who respawn as well. You do not need to stick on to a wall to do this as mentioned somewhere around here.
As a favor to all your marine comrades if you see no one guarding the front of the base while your members are loading up on ammo be the turkey(frontman) and guard the front for a bit until they are through with the armory. I usually regate myself to guarding them while the monkeys load on ammo because they are having "special" relations with the armory to realize that we are under attack. Be proactive and a team player by being the turkey(dedicated welder) in the HA assault especially when you see NO ONE taking the job, which I end up taking I might add.
Believe me being the turkey is the MOST important job no matter how unglorious it is, because guys and girls... There is no thanksgiving... without the turkey...
if you put the armory in the middle of the room, you will often have four or five marines seeing only it, making armory sounds (which sound like a skulk dinner bell to me!)
put that armory in a difficult place and some amrines will complain, but what they dont kno is that while theya re complaining they are providing very good human base defense! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, some marines will inevitably sit there facing the armory in line, oblivous to anything else in the room except: "Wow that guy sure has been there awhile, isn't he done already?" "Hey buddy, I'd like some ammo too ya know!" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, if building more than one IP, place them as far apart as possible so that the skulks eating one can still get shot by the other coming out of the IP 10 feet away.
It really just helps to have consious players who are aware of what is around them and are consious of what needs to be done and how it is to be done. I think it helps to have semi-commander players who know what it means to command and how important it is to be aware of these very small but life-changing details. Details like when loading on ammo it only makes sense to face the door where the enemy is most likely to come at you.
I am sure many of you have commanded a team which went off on their own and did their thing while you were trying to get them to go to the @$^%#&* wp you set. Whats more is they all complain that you didn't command them well but it wasn't your fault since everyone went in totally the opposite direction from the wp you set... I know, it really makes you want to cry when nobody follows your orders, hate it even more when they blame you for their own insubordination.
But in those few games, you thank god you have those few players who listen to you and follow your plan to succession and don't run off on their own just for kicks, many of those are unwilling turkeys who really brings thanksgiving to the table... Oh and brings fun to the game... If you see no turkey on the team, then opt to become one and voluenteer for the job of being the turkey...