Skulk Rush

Redmonkey

<div class="IPBDescription">.....Is still the best.</div> Depending on how many people are playing (generally 6-7+ per team), I've found that skulk rushing the marines is still the best strategy right off the bat. I hear a lot of people saying "Oh no! Don't do that!", but really, the benefits outweigh the risks by far.
-A coordinated pack of 7+ skulks rushing to a marine base can catch the 'rines while they are still building their armory, alab, etc. And we all know 1 on 1, a good skulk in close quarters can take out at least 2-3 'rines before hitting a mine or getting blown into little bitty pieces of alien muck. (On a rush I usually take out at least 3 before going down, sometimes more)
-Even if you DO die, you'll spawn back and be able to hit the fighting faster than a 'rine. The 'rine will spawn back to a wasted base, maybe even with a couple skulks waiting for him to spawn (Depending on the success of your rush).
-When you're dead, your resources are put into the khaara res pool. (Remember! Dead aliens' res go to the pool until they can be absorbed by someone). So, having one skulk stay back and not rush, and go gorge almost immediately, they can hit huge amounts of res from the res pool.
Some other reasons, but these are the few that make me always call for a skulk rush at the beginning of any game. And 7 times out of 10, the aliens win in under ten minutes.

Church

Your strat makes the assumption the marines don't pay attention. This means your strat will make you lose the game in less than 5 minutes if your opening gambit fails.

Yes, in close quarters skulks can do massive damage. Getting there is the problem. Decent marines can take out 2-3 un carapaced skulks if they are in a defensive position and waiting, which good marines will be doing 99% of the time. So after taking out your whole team except one who is gestation into gorge, they counter-rush, spawn camp (which is ridiculously easy to do), drop an armory in your hive, and it's gg. You never, EVER want to have youe whole team dead. And remember, marines can build more IPs, aliens can't.

You have much to learn, young padawan.

Redmonkey

I'm assuming lots of things. And yes, it is very dependant upon what the 'rines are doing and their experience level. In pub play, the rush strat works pretty well. I wouldn't suggest doing it in a match play though, because it's too risky. BUT. A few things can happen. The comm has mines thrown down, and they sit in the base. In which case, true, a good marine can take out as many skulks as a good skulk can take out marines, but that's the whole point of a rush. Run in there and hit them. A marine can only fire at one alien at a time, and most aren't smart enough to switch to a pistol or knife. A marine still has to reload if he has terrible aim. A skulk doesn't have to reload, and the aim for the bitegun is pretty forgiving. OR. The comm has everyone run to a hive or a double res node to relocate (in which case you'd have the same chance of being screwed had you not rushed). The skulk rush is a gamble, like I said. Personally, I think it's worth it. You also run the chance of running into a squad of marines, and your chances are much better in that situation than the base situation. There are three hives on each map, which means counter rushing won't happen until another three or more skulks respawn. Even good marines, if they repulse the rush, are more likely to sit back in base and mill around and rebuild rather than counter rush. And 'rines are a HELL of a lot slower moving around than aliens. So, if your rush doesn't pan out, you still have a better than average chance of not getting counter rushed. And true, they can build IPs. But they have to have a cc down first (if they are trying to relocate), or you can pull out if your rush isn't working, and hit them while they're spawning back in or building more or another IP. Like I said...this strat really is only viable on pub play, and in a match game you probably shouldn't be rushing them. But it is a gamble. Not a guarenteed thing. Just like marines relocating or counter rushing, they run the chance of a skulk back dooring their base, taking out their IP, or any other thing that could happen. The rush is basically an All or Nothing thing. So really, it all depends on who you are playing with.

Firewater

Actually its quite good to do rushes in the beginning, because dead skulks do not collect resources, but if the skulks do die, they have to be at the marine base. Its ok a for skulks to die when they are far away from thier base, the problem is when skulks do not do that initial rush, and their defense fails, and htey get spawn camped. at least with a rush it keeps the marines on their toes a little bit, and if the skulks die its no real biggie, because the gorge collects all those resources, and the skulks can come back in before any major assualt is made.

Though, to continiously skulk rush would be bad, especially when the marines make their advancement to your hive, you should find a good area hide, and take out the threat, then run it back and attack the marine base.

sej

skulk rush is fun.


willmost probably fail anyway.

Berger

Yes. If your initial rush is horribly annihalated by a team of prepared marines, <b>do not</b> keep rushing. This will only lead to a mine rush or some other absurdly irritating thing. If you fail at first, do not try again. Get outside the marine base and by close resource nozzles, and murder them when they try to expand. If they're holed up in their base, and you keep taking down their resource towers, you're on the way to a second hive and victory.

acer_r1

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=12165' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...ST&f=21&t=12165</a>


read, while skul rush isnt a long term plan, it does work well......

p4Samwise

Rush in waves. If waves 1 and 2 die horrible deaths without inflicting any damage, wave 3 should hold back and establish a perimeter. If each wave wears the marines down a little, just keep it up - the goal is to hurt them just badly enough that they won't be able to counter-rush.

Jasper

Seems to me that the only reason not to rush is because someone on the team wants to prolong the game likely the gorg...<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Most of the time the first rush wont work, but as long as you keep them in the base you are winning, and as soon as you get Carapace It should be over, or close to it.

ZiGGY

You dont want to have everyone dead in your team at any one time when you hive is open because you can only spawn 1 person every 8 seconds where as marines can spawn a person every 10 seconds per ip. The high spawn times will mean youre up effluence valley without a means of propultion <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->

AIRinc_FaReZ

So... what your saying is:

Skulk rushing is vgood because if you succeed, you get a vinteresting and vexciting 3 min game. While if you fail, you get a vgood and vexciting game 5 min game (factoring the time they take to go to your hive and plonk and armoury down). Wow. Skulk rushing is great it provides one side with a 3 ~ 5 min win. Yay.

Redmonkey

Yes, continual skulk rushing is BAD. But an initial rush right off the bat at the start of a game IS a good idea.

Stakhanov

Most marines wait for the rush and can time armory/IP building so well that they shoot at the first skulk as soon as the building is completed... massive losses can help the marines take nodes , hold important positions or even counter rush. I prefer letting a few mates in and wait to see which team is owned. Then I either barge in (often eating a few fleeing/reloading marines) or hide outside if there's no remaining skulk. From there I can parasite marines and figure where they're heading to. If they try to counter - rush all I have to do is eat the IPs while no one's here , so they will likely go back (comm usually calls for backup instead of helping his team assault the hive)

Huntsman

Usually when I do a skulk rush it's either annihilated with teams of about even skill, or it is immensely successful. Skulks are annihilated because in general an uncarapaced skulk takes less time to kill than a marine by a skulk, and marines can fire from a distance. In an ambush the odds are quite a bit more even, but you're running straight into fields of fire when they most expect you to be there. It's fine if for some reason you know the marine team is incompetent, but it's almost never a good idea to assume the other team is a bunch of idiots who can't shoot. If you truly possess more skilled personnel than the marines you will find out the marines are mown down when you get carapace.

In other words if the rush would work, the game wouldn't last much longer anyway. If it wouldn't work you've either set yourself back a bit or committed suicide for your team. It's always best to assume the worst about your enemy- it'll help you be prepared for anything tricky they might pull.

The_Finch

Rushes also have an interesting side effect for the Marines. Usually, the Aliens will take the shortest route to the Marine base, and that can tell you where the Alien start hive is when you're familiar with the maps.

Redmonkey

I've found that commanders can also find out which is the start hive by listening to the sounds when they are centered over it.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

Also, it all really depends on the map. Wide open spawn starts for marines are not a great place to rush...heh.

acer_r1

eclipse rush=bad
nothing rush= bad to semi good
caged rush=decent
nancy rush= bad
bast rush=good
hera rush= sometimes good

...............

That_Annoying_Kid

<!--QuoteBegin--acer r+Apr 22 2003, 09:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (acer r @ Apr 22 2003, 09:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> eclipse rush=bad
nothing rush= bad to semi good
caged rush=decent
nancy rush= bad
bast rush=good
hera rush= sometimes good

............... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yup
and rushing on the "falling" maps is always good
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

AIRinc_FaReZ

What do you mean by "falling maps"? Worst map to rush on is EC. And if you DO decide to rush in Eclipse, PLS PLS PLS DONT OPEN THE DOOR TO BACKOFF AND FIRE PARASITES. As a marine, gd guards would be crouching in some dark corner with a gd view of both doors, and the minute the door opens, BLAM BLAM BLAM 10 pistol shots killing the paraing skulk and the unlucky one who happened to be behind him.

Church

Eclipse? You'd be crazy to rush that place.

AIRinc_FaReZ

Thats what i just said.

quote from myself:
"Worst map to rush on is EC"

Alias20

Eclipse kinda sucks for skulks in general since there are no good ambush spots outside the marine start. There is that glass ceiling place outside the Alpha res node, and the one on the way to Triad, but no good hiding places between spawn and Maint. At that point you have to do the simple "hide around a corner and rush out" tactic, which sometimes works against lone marines and almost never works against groups.

Early game rushes are like shotgun rushes for the marines. Its a risky tactic that can win the game quickly, but if it fails you're pretty screwed. And for vanilla skulks with no upgrades going against marines with ranged weapons and wide open spawn areas, it fails all too often. Sit back, ambush the patrols as they leave spawn, and keep the marines confined to their start. You stop relocation attempts. You starve them of resources. You protect your gorges and res towers by making sure no marine has the chance to get to them. After the first sixty seconds the game comes down to controlling the map. And if you get lucky with an ambush and take out six or so marines, you can then rush their base when the numbers are on your side.

Cheers,
Alias20

Nupi

On big servers initial skulk rush sometimes means install loss of control of the situation. Its more important to stop them from relocating and forcing them to use their original base instead, or stop them from getting important areas.

for example, cargo, hera entrance, processing (usually a good relocating place, 2 hives nearby so.. its bad for us if they get there), redroom, etc.

Man i wish skulks would gather up more (in pubs) and attack as a group instead of going solo, specially when marines have put up secondary base nearby. Example situation:

26 players at server.
Hive: powersilo
situation: marines build phase, tf, turrets at the end of the corrider but still in siege range, so time is short.

This is how it goes almost everytime, first gorge/skulk says

<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> *marines are building phase/tf near us!*

Next part, single skulks go in there one by one and all getting shot to pieces before they can do any damage to structures, killing a marine a single marine isnt just enough.

<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> *lets eat them!!*
- wont do much good alone.. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->

<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> *Lets Move!*
- now, this would do far more damage or even destroy phase, tf.

Yes, i was bit off topic but if we're talking about rushing my thoughts arent that far fetched, skulk groups own <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

Alias20

That's true. On large player servers the respawn times with one hive are absolutely murderous. Lose 2/3s of your team in an initial rush and it'll be two minutes or so until you're back to full strength, assuming no one else dies.

Skulk groups on pubs are still hit and miss. Often times I find that if one guy leads an attack and survives, other skulks will come running to help out. Its making that initial push that will inspire your teammates the most difficult part.

Cheers,
Alias20

AIRinc_FaReZ

<!--QuoteBegin--Nupi+Apr 28 2003, 02:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nupi @ Apr 28 2003, 02:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> *Lets Move!*
- now, this would do far more damage or even destroy phase, tf.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What would happen, if this rush fails?

Xzilen

I agree, the res build up for whoever is gorge is really nice.

Xzilen

<!--QuoteBegin--acer r+Apr 22 2003, 11:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (acer r @ Apr 22 2003, 11:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> eclipse rush=bad
nothing rush= bad to semi good
caged rush=decent
nancy rush= bad
bast rush=good
hera rush= sometimes good

............... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, nothing about Tanith? How come everyone always forgets about that map? :-\

Roobubba

Skulk group rushes are utterly devastating when you have carapace, so I like to get cara ASAP (3 skulks go gorge to get DCs each at 25/26 res), while the one gorge is getting res towers. When you have 5 or more carapaced skulks, the marines are going to have serious problems IF THOSE SKULKS work together.

Teamplay if King.

SoulSkorpion

<!--QuoteBegin--Roobubba+Apr 28 2003, 07:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Roobubba @ Apr 28 2003, 07:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Skulk group rushes are utterly devastating when you have carapace, so I like to get cara ASAP (3 skulks go gorge to get DCs each at 25/26 res), while the one gorge is getting res towers. When you have 5 or more carapaced skulks, the marines are going to have serious problems IF THOSE SKULKS work together.

Teamplay if King. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought the initial "skulk rushes are good" proposition was referring to the "as soon as the game starts, the skulks all attack the marine base at once". This kinda means no cara <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

As for the initial rush in general, I'm opposed to it. It only works on bad marines, and it offers too many disadvantages. There are only two possible outcomes:

1: You win, kill the marines and destroy their stuff. The game's over in five minutes. Oh, what fun!
2: You fail. All the skulks are dead, and must now wait in the respawn queue. In this time, the marines have a free run of the map with no skulks parasiting them, reporting on their movements, or killing them. Not to mention no hive or gorge defense.

Either way, the early rush is a Bad Thing. You either screw over your team, or have a short crappy game.

It's MUCH more effective if you have your skulks deployed at key points around their base so that you can track their movements. Rushing weakens you to relocating, ramboing, marine rushing and weakens your ability to hamper marine expansion.

pardzh

Well skulks that are dead don't collect resources, yeah, but skulks that stay alive longer max their resources at 33 faster and the Gorge gets to overflow faster. It goes both ways I guess.

I prefer to have the skulks camp entrances or near res nodes. Like camping Horseshoe/SAA/Triad on Eclipse, for example. Easier to catch the rines with their pants down if you don't have carapace.