it wouldnt work...... LMG is too weak, and eventually you would run out of ammo, and be screwed... you also dont account for the skulk rushes that WILL kill some of your people..... so your gonna have less people, and more skulks to out number them, so this plan = failure
<!--QuoteBegin--[JeMaL]Vinegar Ninja+Apr 28 2003, 06:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([JeMaL]Vinegar Ninja @ Apr 28 2003, 06:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it wouldnt work...... LMG is too weak, and eventually you would run out of ammo, and be screwed... you also dont account for the skulk rushes that WILL kill some of your people..... so your gonna have less people, and more skulks to out number them, so this plan = failure <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You my friend are dead wrong. Lets do some simple match
5jp/lmgs/pistol/knife
LMG loaded with 50/250. Damage output is 10 damage per bullet: 300*10=3000 Pistol loaded with 10/30. Damage output is 20 damage per bullet: 40*20=800
5(lmg+pistol)=5*3800= 19000
I would like to see a hive take that much damage without dying
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->LMG loaded with 50/250. Damage output is 10 damage per bullet: 300*10=3000 Pistol loaded with 10/30. Damage output is 20 damage per bullet: 40*20=800 5(lmg+pistol)=5*3800= 19000 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This readout would be true, providing that, 1. You have 5 marines. 2. All your soldiers completely load up with ammo before you recycle the armory. 3. None of your soldiers die. 4. None of your soldiers use up ammo firing at skulks. 5. Every single bullet hits the hive.
With an equal amount of skulks attacking and harrassing your soldiers in Marine start, on the way to the hive, and at the hive, The imposibility to exact perfect control on each soldier to carry this out, and the total lack of base defense and ability to respawn that this requires, It makes it a much more risky manuever to try than a normal hive rush.
Ok, I went through a psuedo game, and here's why this strategy won't work.
First of all, you have to build an IP before you can get an armory, so that changes your build structure. The Resource readout at the start of the game looks like this.
100; -22 (IP); -25 (Armory) = 53 +obo 1 res from the tower = 54 54 -50 (Arms Lab) = 4
Now according to you, this is the point where the armory is recycled. This means, either have to leave it up so the soldiers can arm up to full, or they can go without ammo and get slaughtered. So wait a bit I suppose, if anyone dies after you recycle the armory you're screwed.
4 +obo 2-4 from the tower (depending how long you wait) = 8 8 +13 (recycled armory) = 21
Here again you encounter a problem, you have additional wait time, continuing your lack of expansion while you wait for the armory to recycle.
21 +obo 2 res from the tower = 23
Again wait time for res to build up to research JP's
25 -25 (JP research) = 0 res
Here's where you run into the main problem. Waiting for 22 res to show up for your 2nd res tower. Your soldiers have no armory to get more ammo from defending, and you have probably been hit with 1 or 2 skulk rushes by now, which is depleting their ammo. At this point you probably have to split your force into base defense and res tower cappers which further thins out your forces. At around 0 +8 res from the tower = 8res Your JP's have researched, but you are still waiting for the 22res for the resource tower and doing nothing.
Even after you have capped the 2nd res tower, it takes 40 seconds, yes damn, to get 9 res after each JP you drop. That means, to equipt 5 soldiers it will take 3 minutes, 20 seconds. That, plus the time it took you just to get here, plus the total lack of ammo from no armory, plus uncountable factors such as deaths, stupidity, talented aliens, almost garuntees a failure for this strat.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ratfire+Apr 28 2003, 07:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ratfire @ Apr 28 2003, 07:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, I went through a psuedo game, and here's why this strategy won't work.
First of all, you have to build an IP before you can get an armory, so that changes your build structure. The Resource readout at the start of the game looks like this.
100; -22 (IP); -25 (Armory) = 53 +obo 1 res from the tower = 54 54 -50 (Arms Lab) = 4
Now according to you, this is the point where the armory is recycled. This means, either have to leave it up so the soldiers can arm up to full, or they can go without ammo and get slaughtered. So wait a bit I suppose, if anyone dies after you recycle the armory you're screwed.
4 +obo 2-4 from the tower (depending how long you wait) = 8 8 +13 (recycled armory) = 21
Here again you encounter a problem, you have additional wait time, continuing your lack of expansion while you wait for the armory to recycle.
21 +obo 2 res from the tower = 23
Again wait time for res to build up to research JP's
25 -25 (JP research) = 0 res
Here's where you run into the main problem. Waiting for 22 res to show up for your 2nd res tower. Your soldiers have no armory to get more ammo from defending, and you have probably been hit with 1 or 2 skulk rushes by now, which is depleting their ammo. At this point you probably have to split your force into base defense and res tower cappers which further thins out your forces. At around 0 +8 res from the tower = 8res Your JP's have researched, but you are still waiting for the 22res for the resource tower and doing nothing.
Even after you have capped the 2nd res tower, it takes 40 seconds, yes damn, to get 9 res after each JP you drop. That means, to equipt 5 soldiers it will take 3 minutes, 20 seconds. That, plus the time it took you just to get here, plus the total lack of ammo from no armory, plus uncountable factors such as deaths, stupidity, talented aliens, almost garuntees a failure for this strat.
Ratfire <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> All of this is valid... if you suck.
If i did this i wouldn't recycle the armoury until proto was up. I would rather recycle IP since 5 marines standng in base should not die to incoming skulks(although map dependant this should be pretty easy), build arms lab,build proto, recycle arms lab reserch jp recycle armoury recycle RT drop JPs etc etc. And if you die to a skulk when you got jp of course you are going to fail. And lets remove the noob factors that you put in(as stated above it is valid if you suck but we are going to assume you don't) and that makes this a pretty good strat although i wouldn't use it like this. I would probably cap 2 nodes not recycle IP and armoury until everybody got jp etc etc.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If i did this i wouldn't recycle the armoury until proto was up. I would rather recycle IP since 5 marines standng in base should not die to incoming skulks(although map dependant this should be pretty easy), build arms lab,build proto, recycle arms lab reserch jp recycle armoury recycle RT drop JPs etc etc. And if you die to a skulk when you got jp of course you are going to fail. And lets remove the noob factors that you put in(as stated above it is valid if you suck but we are going to assume you don't) and that makes this a pretty good strat although i wouldn't use it like this. I would probably cap 2 nodes not recycle IP and armoury until everybody got jp etc etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The pseudo game didn't even take into effect people sucking, it went on the concept that no one was killed in main, and no skulk rushes even took place to slow construction. It's not that this all applies to people that suck, if you have a team of 5, and 1 person dies, you're pretty much screwed with no armory, and especially with no IP. Plus, even if everyone is amazing, you still run into the tremendous amount of time it takes to get straight to the JP's as opposed to anything else. I like the idea of getting more res towers instead of recycling, but mainly because it applies to survival rather than the JP rush itself.
Since you don't seem to give up i tried this out and this is what happened. 1 ip 1armoury 1 arms lab recycle ip build proto recycle arms lab start jp reserch wait untill its half done(load up ammo and all that) recycle armoury recycle RT drop 4 JPs go kill the hive this took about 4 minutes
edit: Besides, aliens can easily get up a few dcs in that time if the gorge is worth his salt. Then healspray the hive, and eventually those lmgers will die. GG great waste of time.
then you get a few seconds quicker... or if your marines behave themselves leave the IP for later <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Dadden+Apr 28 2003, 07:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dadden @ Apr 28 2003, 07:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Since you don't seem to give up i tried this out and this is what happened. 1 ip 1armoury 1 arms lab recycle ip build proto recycle arms lab start jp reserch wait untill its half done(load up ammo and all that) recycle armoury recycle RT drop 4 JPs go kill the hive this took about 4 minutes
GG NO RE <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> your obviously being really ignorant here..... LISTEN, on any pub this will NOT work, it WILL fail. on clans, aliens shouldnt suck THAT much, it WILL fail. res wise, this plan works just fine, but when your dealing with real skulks attacking your marines, it will fail in all practicality. Your team can only use pistols to kill skulks, they cant miss, and cant use lmg ammo. The aliens cant have cara, and cant have any way to heal the hive. Then and ONLY THEN will this work. now quit trying to make 3 second games....... longer usually = better <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Ratfire+Apr 29 2003, 02:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ratfire @ Apr 29 2003, 02:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->LMG loaded with 50/250. Damage output is 10 damage per bullet: 300*10=3000 Pistol loaded with 10/30. Damage output is 20 damage per bullet: 40*20=800 5(lmg+pistol)=5*3800= 19000 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This readout would be true, providing that, 1. You have 5 marines. 2. All your soldiers completely load up with ammo before you recycle the armory. 3. None of your soldiers die. 4. None of your soldiers use up ammo firing at skulks. 5. Every single bullet hits the hive.
With an equal amount of skulks attacking and harrassing your soldiers in Marine start, on the way to the hive, and at the hive, The imposibility to exact perfect control on each soldier to carry this out, and the total lack of base defense and ability to respawn that this requires, It makes it a much more risky manuever to try than a normal hive rush.
Ratfire <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well it's not very hard to hit the hive (it's quite big). <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> And even if all of your marines dont have full ammo or all of them are not alive anymore when you go to the hive, you can still destroy it.
See 19000 damage with 5 marines ----> hive health is 6000 ----> it is like 1/3 bullets which has to be hit <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And why do you need a base, if you kill a starting hive?
KEEP YOUR CRAPPY ALL OR NOTHING 5 MINUTE OR LESS GAME STRATEGY OFF MY SERVER
There you go. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Well yeah i think this strat kinda sucks since its so boring but it still works
To all the others saying it won't i have no responce since you do not understand the game. At least so it seems.
1. This is old. 2. This works insanely well, especially on larger servers. Only times it fails is if you have really bad marines, or if the hive is very cramped. All the marines have to do is stay at base and not die for 2 minutes, and then fly to the hive and fire a total of 12 lmg clips into it. If you don't have 4 decent marines that can stay alive in a hive for the 15 seconds it takes to shoot 3 clips, well, yeah, then it'll fail. 6 Half-decent marines makes it 2 clips each. 3. This is not fun in the slightest, except maybe as a one-time gimmick.
Use this when people on a server whine that aliens are too powerful and that marines can never win.
The alien counters: 1. Rush the base in a group, take down as many marines as you can. They won't respawn because the IP was recycled --> less firepower left to kill your hive. 2. Have the whole team gorge up and healspray the hive. Healspray heals a large amount of health when used on buildings.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ratfire+Apr 28 2003, 06:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ratfire @ Apr 28 2003, 06:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->LMG loaded with 50/250. Damage output is 10 damage per bullet: 300*10=3000 Pistol loaded with 10/30. Damage output is 20 damage per bullet: 40*20=800 5(lmg+pistol)=5*3800= 19000 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This readout would be true, providing that, 1. You have 5 marines. 2. All your soldiers completely load up with ammo before you recycle the armory. 3. None of your soldiers die. 4. None of your soldiers use up ammo firing at skulks. 5. Every single bullet hits the hive.
With an equal amount of skulks attacking and harrassing your soldiers in Marine start, on the way to the hive, and at the hive, The imposibility to exact perfect control on each soldier to carry this out, and the total lack of base defense and ability to respawn that this requires, It makes it a much more risky manuever to try than a normal hive rush.
Ratfire <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Only stupid Marines would waste ammo on Skulks that will be respawned before you get to the hive, you got JetPacks so Skulks shouldn't get you enless you suck, and if you miss the hive please quit NS now....
<!--QuoteBegin--[JeMaL]Vinegar Ninja+Apr 28 2003, 08:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([JeMaL]Vinegar Ninja @ Apr 28 2003, 08:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> your obviously being really ignorant here..... LISTEN, on any pub this will NOT work, it WILL fail. on clans, aliens shouldnt suck THAT much, it WILL fail. res wise, this plan works just fine, but when your dealing with real skulks attacking your marines, it will fail in all practicality. Your team can only use pistols to kill skulks, they cant miss, and cant use lmg ammo. The aliens cant have cara, and cant have any way to heal the hive. Then and ONLY THEN will this work. now quit trying to make 3 second games....... longer usually = better <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you have any competitive clan experience? I doubt it, so you have no right to say that it wouldn't work in a clan format, because it DOES.
Okay everyone, thanks for all your responses. My clan and I are quite new (suprise suprise) and we tried it last night on a match. Simply bloody fantastic, I must say. All you skeptics just need to be more open minded. I didnt know this strat already existed, so sorry if I made ya'll have to bring out the n00b bat <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, for all you buggers who are saying, "KEEP YOUR BLOODY 5 MINUTE GAME OUT OF MY SERVER." I never said I was going to your server. As a matter of fact, if you could give me the IP I will make it a point NOT to go to your server. If you are not willing to allow a valid tactic enter a game in your server then to be quite frank, I don't think many other people will want to go there either.
Again, thanks for the editions, and Dadden, you really helped with smoothing out the preverbial "bumps" in this strategy. Sorry if you all heard it a million times, but I havn't.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
JP rushes work. I just like it better with upgrades and HMGs. Then it only takes one or two people to take down the hive...and if you fail the first time it's NOT the end of the world.
<!--QuoteBegin--Chuchumanquiq+Apr 28 2003, 08:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chuchumanquiq @ Apr 28 2003, 08:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> wouldn't it do you better to
armory ip arms lab
then you get a few seconds quicker... or if your marines behave themselves leave the IP for later <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Last time I comm'd, you needed to build an IP to get an armory.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stung256+Apr 29 2003, 06:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stung256 @ Apr 29 2003, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anyway, for all you buggers who are saying, "KEEP YOUR BLOODY 5 MINUTE GAME OUT OF MY SERVER." I never said I was going to your server. As a matter of fact, if you could give me the IP I will make it a point NOT to go to your server. If you are not willing to allow a valid tactic enter a game in your server then to be quite frank, I don't think many other people will want to go there either. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My pleasure. Roob's *No Time For Muppets* NS 1.04 (CDreq) 163.1.180.217:27016
What is the point in going for a 5 minute game? That's all I seem to be hearing these days, ways to spawn camp, kill the hive/marine start really really quickly. By choosing this tactic, or an HMG rush, you are determining that the game will be 5 mins and NO LONGER. Why? Because if it works, game over, and if it doesn't, game over. Well great thanks for a really interesting game.
Do what you like in clan matches, sure it's valid, but by perpetuating this ideal on public servers (as topics like this inevitably do), you're actively damaging the community.
THAT is why I'd thank you kindly NOT to come to my server with the 5 minute game attitude.
If you actually want to play the game, then please do come along, as we actually have a good time, win or lose.
I'm sorry if my previous posts came on strong, I was trying to be skeptical of a strategy that seems to take to long without results, but if you've had effective use of this strategy in a game, than good for you, I'm glad it works. You have to remember though, especially on public servers, it won't work all the time.
It's great that we have people at least trying to come up with new strategies, and I'm not trying to halt that progress, just playing "devil's advocate" if you will in order to try to filter out and problems and hopefully make the strategy better or at least get more information out there.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Only stupid Marines would waste ammo on Skulks that will be respawned before you get to the hive<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> BTW Gunslinger, when you said this, were you implying you let the skulks live and harass you the entire way, or that you think everyone is good enough to knife the entire Kharaa team?
Comments
And this won't work in 1.1.
Armory
Arms lab
Recycle Armory
Proto Lab
Recycle Arms lab
IP
RT
Hand out JPs
LMG is too weak, and eventually you would run out of ammo, and be screwed... you also dont account for the skulk rushes that WILL kill some of your people..... so your gonna have less people, and more skulks to out number them, so this plan = failure
LMG is too weak, and eventually you would run out of ammo, and be screwed... you also dont account for the skulk rushes that WILL kill some of your people..... so your gonna have less people, and more skulks to out number them, so this plan = failure <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You my friend are dead wrong.
Lets do some simple match
5jp/lmgs/pistol/knife
LMG loaded with 50/250. Damage output is 10 damage per bullet: 300*10=3000
Pistol loaded with 10/30. Damage output is 20 damage per bullet: 40*20=800
5(lmg+pistol)=5*3800= 19000
I would like to see a hive take that much damage without dying
Why not ruin the game alittle more for the aliens.
Pistol loaded with 10/30. Damage output is 20 damage per bullet: 40*20=800
5(lmg+pistol)=5*3800= 19000
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This readout would be true, providing that,
1. You have 5 marines.
2. All your soldiers completely load up with ammo before you recycle the armory.
3. None of your soldiers die.
4. None of your soldiers use up ammo firing at skulks.
5. Every single bullet hits the hive.
With an equal amount of skulks attacking and harrassing your soldiers in Marine start, on the way to the hive, and at the hive,
The imposibility to exact perfect control on each soldier to carry this out,
and the total lack of base defense and ability to respawn that this requires,
It makes it a much more risky manuever to try than a normal hive rush.
Ratfire
First of all, you have to build an IP before you can get an armory, so that changes your build structure. The Resource readout at the start of the game looks like this.
100; -22 (IP); -25 (Armory) = 53 +obo 1 res from the tower = 54
54 -50 (Arms Lab) = 4
Now according to you, this is the point where the armory is recycled. This means, either have to leave it up so the soldiers can arm up to full, or they can go without ammo and get slaughtered.
So wait a bit I suppose, if anyone dies after you recycle the armory you're screwed.
4 +obo 2-4 from the tower (depending how long you wait) = 8
8 +13 (recycled armory) = 21
Here again you encounter a problem, you have additional wait time, continuing your lack of expansion while you wait for the armory to recycle.
21 +obo 2 res from the tower = 23
Again wait time for res to build up to research JP's
25 -25 (JP research) = 0 res
Here's where you run into the main problem. Waiting for 22 res to show up for your 2nd res tower. Your soldiers have no armory to get more ammo from defending, and you have probably been hit with 1 or 2 skulk rushes by now, which is depleting their ammo. At this point you probably have to split your force into base defense and res tower cappers which further thins out your forces.
At around 0 +8 res from the tower = 8res Your JP's have researched, but you are still waiting for the 22res for the resource tower and doing nothing.
Even after you have capped the 2nd res tower, it takes 40 seconds, yes damn, to get 9 res after each JP you drop. That means, to equipt 5 soldiers it will take 3 minutes, 20 seconds.
That, plus the time it took you just to get here, plus the total lack of ammo from no armory, plus uncountable factors such as deaths, stupidity, talented aliens, almost garuntees a failure for this strat.
Ratfire
First of all, you have to build an IP before you can get an armory, so that changes your build structure. The Resource readout at the start of the game looks like this.
100; -22 (IP); -25 (Armory) = 53 +obo 1 res from the tower = 54
54 -50 (Arms Lab) = 4
Now according to you, this is the point where the armory is recycled. This means, either have to leave it up so the soldiers can arm up to full, or they can go without ammo and get slaughtered.
So wait a bit I suppose, if anyone dies after you recycle the armory you're screwed.
4 +obo 2-4 from the tower (depending how long you wait) = 8
8 +13 (recycled armory) = 21
Here again you encounter a problem, you have additional wait time, continuing your lack of expansion while you wait for the armory to recycle.
21 +obo 2 res from the tower = 23
Again wait time for res to build up to research JP's
25 -25 (JP research) = 0 res
Here's where you run into the main problem. Waiting for 22 res to show up for your 2nd res tower. Your soldiers have no armory to get more ammo from defending, and you have probably been hit with 1 or 2 skulk rushes by now, which is depleting their ammo. At this point you probably have to split your force into base defense and res tower cappers which further thins out your forces.
At around 0 +8 res from the tower = 8res Your JP's have researched, but you are still waiting for the 22res for the resource tower and doing nothing.
Even after you have capped the 2nd res tower, it takes 40 seconds, yes damn, to get 9 res after each JP you drop. That means, to equipt 5 soldiers it will take 3 minutes, 20 seconds.
That, plus the time it took you just to get here, plus the total lack of ammo from no armory, plus uncountable factors such as deaths, stupidity, talented aliens, almost garuntees a failure for this strat.
Ratfire <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
All of this is valid... if you suck.
If i did this i wouldn't recycle the armoury until proto was up. I would rather recycle IP since 5 marines standng in base should not die to incoming skulks(although map dependant this should be pretty easy), build arms lab,build proto, recycle arms lab reserch jp recycle armoury recycle RT drop JPs etc etc. And if you die to a skulk when you got jp of course you are going to fail. And lets remove the noob factors that you put in(as stated above it is valid if you suck but we are going to assume you don't) and that makes this a pretty good strat although i wouldn't use it like this. I would probably cap 2 nodes not recycle IP and armoury until everybody got jp etc etc.
The pseudo game didn't even take into effect people sucking, it went on the concept that no one was killed in main, and no skulk rushes even took place to slow construction. It's not that this all applies to people that suck, if you have a team of 5, and 1 person dies, you're pretty much screwed with no armory, and especially with no IP. Plus, even if everyone is amazing, you still run into the tremendous amount of time it takes to get straight to the JP's as opposed to anything else. I like the idea of getting more res towers instead of recycling, but mainly because it applies to survival rather than the JP rush itself.
Ratfire
1 ip
1armoury
1 arms lab
recycle ip
build proto
recycle arms lab
start jp reserch
wait untill its half done(load up ammo and all that)
recycle armoury
recycle RT
drop 4 JPs
go kill the hive
this took about 4 minutes
GG NO RE
... or not
edit: Besides, aliens can easily get up a few dcs in that time if the gorge is worth his salt. Then healspray the hive, and eventually those lmgers will die. GG great waste of time.
armory
ip
arms lab
then you get a few seconds quicker... or if your marines behave themselves leave the IP for later <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
1 ip
1armoury
1 arms lab
recycle ip
build proto
recycle arms lab
start jp reserch
wait untill its half done(load up ammo and all that)
recycle armoury
recycle RT
drop 4 JPs
go kill the hive
this took about 4 minutes
GG NO RE <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
your obviously being really ignorant here.....
LISTEN, on any pub this will NOT work, it WILL fail.
on clans, aliens shouldnt suck THAT much, it WILL fail.
res wise, this plan works just fine, but when your dealing with real skulks attacking your marines, it will fail in all practicality. Your team can only use pistols to kill skulks, they cant miss, and cant use lmg ammo. The aliens cant have cara, and cant have any way to heal the hive. Then and ONLY THEN will this work.
now quit trying to make 3 second games....... longer usually = better <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
thats about it
cool strat though
Pistol loaded with 10/30. Damage output is 20 damage per bullet: 40*20=800
5(lmg+pistol)=5*3800= 19000
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This readout would be true, providing that,
1. You have 5 marines.
2. All your soldiers completely load up with ammo before you recycle the armory.
3. None of your soldiers die.
4. None of your soldiers use up ammo firing at skulks.
5. Every single bullet hits the hive.
With an equal amount of skulks attacking and harrassing your soldiers in Marine start, on the way to the hive, and at the hive,
The imposibility to exact perfect control on each soldier to carry this out,
and the total lack of base defense and ability to respawn that this requires,
It makes it a much more risky manuever to try than a normal hive rush.
Ratfire <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it's not very hard to hit the hive (it's quite big). <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> And even if all of your marines dont have full ammo or all of them are not alive anymore when you go to the hive, you can still destroy it.
See 19000 damage with 5 marines ----> hive health is 6000 ----> it is like 1/3 bullets which has to be hit <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And why do you need a base, if you kill a starting hive?
KEEP YOUR CRAPPY ALL OR NOTHING 5 MINUTE OR LESS GAME STRATEGY OFF MY SERVER
There you go.
KEEP YOUR CRAPPY ALL OR NOTHING 5 MINUTE OR LESS GAME STRATEGY OFF MY SERVER
There you go. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Well yeah i think this strat kinda sucks since its so boring but it still works
To all the others saying it won't i have no responce since you do not understand the game. At least so it seems.
2. This works insanely well, especially on larger servers. Only times it fails is if you have really bad marines, or if the hive is very cramped. All the marines have to do is stay at base and not die for 2 minutes, and then fly to the hive and fire a total of 12 lmg clips into it. If you don't have 4 decent marines that can stay alive in a hive for the 15 seconds it takes to shoot 3 clips, well, yeah, then it'll fail. 6 Half-decent marines makes it 2 clips each.
3. This is not fun in the slightest, except maybe as a one-time gimmick.
Use this when people on a server whine that aliens are too powerful and that marines can never win.
The alien counters:
1. Rush the base in a group, take down as many marines as you can. They won't respawn because the IP was recycled --> less firepower left to kill your hive.
2. Have the whole team gorge up and healspray the hive. Healspray heals a large amount of health when used on buildings.
Pistol loaded with 10/30. Damage output is 20 damage per bullet: 40*20=800
5(lmg+pistol)=5*3800= 19000
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This readout would be true, providing that,
1. You have 5 marines.
2. All your soldiers completely load up with ammo before you recycle the armory.
3. None of your soldiers die.
4. None of your soldiers use up ammo firing at skulks.
5. Every single bullet hits the hive.
With an equal amount of skulks attacking and harrassing your soldiers in Marine start, on the way to the hive, and at the hive,
The imposibility to exact perfect control on each soldier to carry this out,
and the total lack of base defense and ability to respawn that this requires,
It makes it a much more risky manuever to try than a normal hive rush.
Ratfire <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only stupid Marines would waste ammo on Skulks that will be respawned before you get to the hive, you got JetPacks so Skulks shouldn't get you enless you suck, and if you miss the hive please quit NS now....
LISTEN, on any pub this will NOT work, it WILL fail.
on clans, aliens shouldnt suck THAT much, it WILL fail.
res wise, this plan works just fine, but when your dealing with real skulks attacking your marines, it will fail in all practicality. Your team can only use pistols to kill skulks, they cant miss, and cant use lmg ammo. The aliens cant have cara, and cant have any way to heal the hive. Then and ONLY THEN will this work.
now quit trying to make 3 second games....... longer usually = better <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you have any competitive clan experience? I doubt it, so you have no right to say that it wouldn't work in a clan format, because it DOES.
Anyway, for all you buggers who are saying, "KEEP YOUR BLOODY 5 MINUTE GAME OUT OF MY SERVER." I never said I was going to your server. As a matter of fact, if you could give me the IP I will make it a point NOT to go to your server. If you are not willing to allow a valid tactic enter a game in your server then to be quite frank, I don't think many other people will want to go there either.
Again, thanks for the editions, and Dadden, you really helped with smoothing out the preverbial "bumps" in this strategy. Sorry if you all heard it a million times, but I havn't.
armory
ip
arms lab
then you get a few seconds quicker... or if your marines behave themselves leave the IP for later <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last time I comm'd, you needed to build an IP to get an armory.
My pleasure.
Roob's *No Time For Muppets* NS 1.04 (CDreq)
163.1.180.217:27016
What is the point in going for a 5 minute game? That's all I seem to be hearing these days, ways to spawn camp, kill the hive/marine start really really quickly.
By choosing this tactic, or an HMG rush, you are determining that the game will be 5 mins and NO LONGER. Why? Because if it works, game over, and if it doesn't, game over. Well great thanks for a really interesting game.
Do what you like in clan matches, sure it's valid, but by perpetuating this ideal on public servers (as topics like this inevitably do), you're actively damaging the community.
THAT is why I'd thank you kindly NOT to come to my server with the 5 minute game attitude.
If you actually want to play the game, then please do come along, as we actually have a good time, win or lose.
Roo
It's great that we have people at least trying to come up with new strategies, and I'm not trying to halt that progress, just playing "devil's advocate" if you will in order to try to filter out and problems and hopefully make the strategy better or at least get more information out there.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Only stupid Marines would waste ammo on Skulks that will be respawned before you get to the hive<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BTW Gunslinger, when you said this, were you implying you let the skulks live and harass you the entire way, or that you think everyone is good enough to knife the entire Kharaa team?
Ratfire
Communication wins.
A good alien team wont let you build that quickly......
Whoever works together wins, so ALL strats are valid, this is a pretty good one, ill try it sometime
+Karma