Counter For Heavy Armored Marines With Hmgs?
TankBuster
Join Date: 2003-04-06 Member: 15256Members
Join Date: 2003-04-06 Member: 15256Members
<div class="IPBDescription">I mean this is ridiculous</div> I did a search but I turned up no results and error messages <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> So maybe someone could kindly point me to a link where this was discussed before or just quickly brief me on your ideas for countering heavies.
Killing off their RTs doesn't seem to be enough because of the res bug. With three res towers, 5 minutes can buy a squad of heavies with hmgs and welders. And then it?s game over for the Kharaa once they start making their rounds.
<b>If only</b> spore cloud was available to lvl 2 lerks and damage wasn?t hindered by armor. I mean heavies still have to breathe don?t they? That would have been a great counter! ?if only (sigh).
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Killing off their RTs doesn't seem to be enough because of the res bug. With three res towers, 5 minutes can buy a squad of heavies with hmgs and welders. And then it?s game over for the Kharaa once they start making their rounds.
<b>If only</b> spore cloud was available to lvl 2 lerks and damage wasn?t hindered by armor. I mean heavies still have to breathe don?t they? That would have been a great counter! ?if only (sigh).
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
A gorge using offensive webbing also helps tremendously.
-Webs+Umbra+Fades/Skulks (ie: teamwork)
Webbing works extremely well, just make sure you have adreneline.
Gorges and skulks would hide near the entrance, lerks in the ceiling and fades waiting just around the corner covering the front. Lerks swoop down, umbra & retreat, fades blink forward, and gorge webs the retreat and skulks leap from behind. Repeat until successful.
Sounds simple enough <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
We were able to hold them back with 2 fades and web. Basically I was gorge and I would web the entry from way far down the hallway while the fades acid spammed them and slashed. I was actually standing in that high ceiling entrance to the red room and webbing the entry way from there; any marine that tried to come through got webbed and slashed. I built the dcs far enough so that the grenades couldn't get them. The marines eventually had to fall back and try something else.
It's true that welders melt through webbing like a hot knife through butter but you can still slow down marines enough for the fades to become extremely deadly. Just keep webbing and the fades will do the rest.
Cheers,
Alias20
1. Parasite, so everyone knows where the HA group is.
2. WOLs. They're actually effective against HA. They also provide healing stations. This is key to...
3. Hit and run. With one hive, suicide runs will land the whole team in the spawn queue. Also, one-hive aliens can't belt out enough damage to make a single ambush feasible. So you avoid the marines (take vents and side passages) and occasionally jump out and inflict a bite or two.
You have to assume that this is the last big hurrah for the marines, and once the HA rush is broken the marines will collapse. If the marines have the res to field multiple waves of HA, you're pretty much hosed no matter what you do.
Every weld orgy buys your gorge more time, and provides an opening for attacking skulks.
But you're basically right; if the marines can:
1. Field a team of HA/HMG/welders
2. Keep them supplied with health and ammo
3. Work together to make a coordinated assault
...then you're basically hosed as a one-hive alien, no matter how many RTs you have or what strategy you employ. The hope is the marines will make a mistake that you can exploit (no welders, splitting up, comm getting tied up elsewhere and forgetting to resupply).
Against hive two aliens it's much differnt. Fades can dish out the melee damage as fast as a skulk, and have the life total to survive a storm of hmg fire. Odds are though, if you are fighting hev armor, try using umbra. Umbra will shield you from so many rounds it's crazy(given the recoil on a hmg). Most comms when they give out hev armor rarly give out gls. Since Hev armors can run away from aliens like jetpackers, a gl is a must to counter umbra. If you are playing on a pub server, the best way to kill hev armor is to try to get the group to split up(by running decoy suside gorges away from hives), or use umbra (assuming the com didn't give out gls)
HA are countrable though. Just not on pubs. Squads of HA = teamwork. gee how do u beat teamwork <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> How often do you see squads of fades? The players always become solo frag **** when they fade for sum reason.
ps: welders should not benifit from attack upgrades! grr.
I wondered why people could build their infantry portals faster than I could even when i had a slight headstart on them... Damn - that = p00 out of 10.
And what do people mean by this "res bug"? Do marines get extra resources or summat? God, I'd hate it if this turned out another Empire Earth style resource-cheating AI... <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
How much damage per second does the welder do anyway? more than hmg in umbra?
1) I am welding stuff and an alien gets to me before i can pull out a weapon
2) I come across an undefended res tower
3) I somehow managed to make it to the top of a hive and have cover or no ammo...
i'm really not a big fan of using the welder as a melee weapon.
Anotehr HA and I once held off wave after wave of aliens (they came in pairs of 2), some of them FADES, and the whole time we ONLY had our welders out. We needed to hold generator room BADLY, and also save the structures there. The rest of the team were respawning, and the PG just went down. We held generator for like 10 minutes by just welding and the comm giving us a medpack now and then, and managed to rebuild a PG and let reinforcements arrive. I must've welded 2 fades to death myself. It's the fact that with contant welding I am damned near invincible. Eventually we saved up enough for more HA, and with the help of GL to clear out webs and lerks, managed to push the aliens back to viaduct, kill viaduct, and lock it down. We already had cargo. The rest of the game is like your standard 2 hive lockdown except much shorter as comm saved up a bit more to suit up everyone with HA.
-Webs+Umbra+Fades/Skulks (ie: teamwork) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hm, could you explain whats wrong with it now?
Marines can use their resources with 100% efficiency. The resource income increaes in a linear fashion with team size. Many of the Marine upgrades are across-the-board increases for a one-time payment.
Basically larger teams allow Marines to tech up extremely fast. You could technically have 2/2 upgrades before Aliens get lvl 3 cara. You can have JP's and HMG's before Aliens get lvl 3 cara. You can hve HA before Aliens have their second hive started. All of this with just one extra resource node if teams are big enough.
The bigger the team, the more resources every node gives you, and with a bigger team you can easily hold more nodes.
*bzzt* wrong. A good melee fade can go toe-to-toe with a HA\HMG, by himself, and win most of the time. The problem is, you have to be a *good* melee fade. Celerity helps.
hehe not if you have low fps (i have about 25fps)
hehe not if you have low fps (i have about 25fps) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah - not all of us run at 100 fps!
That said, here are some ways that you can exploit situations where the marines are doing HA less than impressively.
1) Attack all at once, from multiple vectors. Do this against any marine force, so nothing really changes here, but move more slowly and and thus easier to butt in da bum.
2) Concentrate fire on one target. Anyone who is an RTS vet will understand this one. If you rush at the marines and kill one or two, instead of just damaging everyone, you'll do a whole lot more for your team than you would otherwise. Figure in welders, and anyone not dead is effectively not even damaged. After you weaken their force, you might be able to take them out on the second run.
3) Use a varied force if you have 2 hives (and there's no good reason to not have 2 by the time the marines have loaded HA). Gorges should lay down some webs, fades should distract/soften the marines with rockets, and skulks should take advantage of the distraction and get in the real damage from behind. It's too dangerous for lerks to get in close to that kind of force, so just protect the fades/help soften up the armor with spikes. One of the biggest advantages of the fades drawing fire is that the marines won't be able to hold still enough to weld effectively, less they eat some rocket.
Well this was back in 1.03, welders did slightly more damage than now, and I'll admit the fades were dumb in that they didn't retreat. My partner and I welded our armor back faster than they can damage us, and eventually our welders just did enough damage to the fades to kill them.
I've actually encountered that a few times - some people seem to consider fades immortal. YES they do a tonne of damage, but with only 200 Health and something like 125(?) Armour they WILL die, even with regen. Especially if they don't hide every once in a while.
oh and as for the res model
more players doesnt speed up the marines, it just slows down the aliens, cus there are more aliens to take from the hive res pool.