The analogy still doesn't work. There's no competition to see who can change channels faster. And even if there was, it's not as if everyone else would be getting up and walking to the TV.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you cannot play the game without scripts, why are you playing ? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree.
Scripts = Less Skill.
Its like playing Wolfenstein 3D on "Can I play, daddy?" level.
<!--QuoteBegin--kavasa+May 5 2003, 05:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kavasa @ May 5 2003, 05:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was trying to show how simplifying tasks is common in most aspects of our life. Not just in scripts for games, but also with the programs we create and tools we invent (the remote control).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is bull for the reasons I already stated. In addition, it's stupid (see: retarded, laughable, and otherwise brainless in nature) because the question was <i>never</i> "does it make things simpler?" <b>Of course</b> it makes things simpler, you moronic chimp. Would you like to state anything else that's blinding in its obviousness? No? Great. <b>The question</b>, stated explicitly for your benefit, is this: does its simplifying nature grant the script's user an advantage in a fight?
As a side note, some have argued that it is in fact a <i>dis</i>advantage, and I am one of those people. I don't actually give two flips about whether you agree with me there, though, so I won't argue it.
I'd like to go on making fun of you, though, if that's ok.
I like how you say "I was trying to show how simplifying things is common": it makes me laugh. Because, again, that wasn't the question. Not only was it not the question, it's a point which is enjoyably easiy to dismiss. Watch and learn, young grasshopper: <b>t's common to use an aimbot</b>. Alas, just because it's commonly done doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it.
Generally, when I lay the science on some poor slob, I try to give him or her a way out with dignity intact. I only say that in order to point out that in this case it's simply impossible. I could have couched this post in the most marshmallowy-soft language I can summon from my fingertips and you'd still look like a tool. So sorry.
Anyways, thanks for your time, play again next time, I'll be here all week, tip your waitress and try the veal etc. etc. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Get your goat did I? I guess your opinion's are the only correct ones? The only thing I see you doing is insulting me and telling me I'm wrong. How about actually presenting a case? How about you explain how "this script limits your adaptability", as that seems to be the only arguement you have presented so far?
Your question "does its simplifying nature grant the script's user an advantage in a fight?" is not the topic of debate. Increasing your mouse sensitivity above the default will give you a MUCH bigger advantage than this script ever could. Having a fast computer with high FPS will do the same. There are many things that you can do to give yourself an advantage in a fight. Maybe you would like to discuss if it gives you an <b>unfair</b> advantage?
Misquote out of context much? I didn't say "I was trying to show how simplifying things is common", I said "I was trying to show how simplifying tasks is common <b>in most aspects of our life</b>." With the key part being "simplifying tasks" and not "common". That's a very big distinction that really makes your "watch and learn" aimbot arguement look foolish. Especially considering that I have already said "aiming" was a skill, and this is a discussion on the scripting of "menial" tasks and not "skill-based" ones.
If you can't debate...insult! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And let me finish with:
<!--QuoteBegin--mursu+May 5 2003, 10:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mursu @ May 5 2003, 10:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well the analogy hit home in my case.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So once again I say...I appreciate the advice (and insults <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) , but your failure to understand my post doesn't make it inappropriate.
And Stoneburg, you need to have "hud_fastswitch" set to "1" to make the script work. I edited the original post to reflect this. Also, Zer0 might be correct that you only need 1 wait. My original script didn't include the +/- separation. It was all one script on key press. In that case, it required the waits.
Ooh, flamewar. I guess we are going to reside ourself to the fact that we can't even mention the word 'script' on this board without someone saying how it's a legal way of cheating. In fact, That was the whole motivation for me to click on this link, because I knew it will turn into an argument. Thanks for the posts, I found them entertaining.
Oh, and for my opinion (as I have to keep this on topic, of course):
Making scripts that turn three buttons into one: Good (people are going to do it anyway, even if you cry about it) Making scripts about the NS equilivency of Rocket jumping: Allowed (But still kinda stupid, since you are admiting that a three line script can do a better job then you can) Downloading scripts instead of learning to code them yourself: Bad (You can't Rocket Jump, and you have to use someone else's 3-line script!)
And before anyone asks, Yes, I believe that if you can code anything that's called a cheat, you have a right to use it. It's not like I'll notice, I suck at the game anyways. I just have no respect for the guy who downloads an aimbot.
<!--QuoteBegin--Align+May 2 2003, 06:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ May 2 2003, 06:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Or for even faster response than hud_fastswitch 1(unless you use the arrow keys), bind "lastinv" to something. If you use WASD, Q is quite good(good enough for me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, i do this too, and with absolutely no effort, i can beat you "scripters" at your own game, because I don't have "wait; wait; wait;" in it. And i didnt even have to change the default controls.
BTW some scripting is considered cheating, this probably not one, but the silent bunny hop one and the pistol script would be, because it would be considered exploiting the game.
I've never used scripts, because i've took the time to learn how to do what scripts do myself. Which means i can deal with it when they're taken away. (1.1)
<!--QuoteBegin--kavasa+May 5 2003, 01:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kavasa @ May 5 2003, 01:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Stoneberg - first off, might I suggest keeping phrases such as "you look like an idiot" out of posts wherein you request people to tone down their posts? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well the phrase was "Flaming makes you look like an idiot", Mr. I-like-quoting-out-of-context, and 2-dollar words are fine, as long as I don't have to pay for them. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
"Silent bunny hop scripts"? How would that work. Some bunnyhoppers have jump bound to the mouse wheel, you make bunnyhopping silent by crouching... where is a script needed here?
I doubt that scripting will be taken out in 1.1, I could be wrong, I'm not keeping myself updated w/r/t 1.1 so... still, scripting is an integral part of Half-Life.
Two institutions decide what is and isn't cheating:
1. You 2. The server you play on
No matter how hard you scream you will not be 'right', because it is indeed subjective, if you really want to propagate your view of what is cheating I suggest you argue it calmly, oh, and with 'arguments' not insults <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
People themself decide what is and isn't cheating, server owners decide what is and isn't cheating. If you and the server you play on agree that soemthing isn't cheating then it isn't, simple as that.
Some might say that the Devs or Valve decide but that is like a legal system not supported by a police force, impotent, irrelevant. Only you or the server actually have any power to do something about it so that is who's opinion counts.
Just a side note:
People first claim that scripting gives an advantage and that is why you shouldn't use them, then they say that they themself are much better then the 'scripters' and that scripts will only hinder you..
Ps. I have hud_fastswitch 1, it's just that the latency messes it up, the amounts of "wait" needs to be adjusted to the latency and account for choke/pl as well I think.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How about you explain how "this script limits your adaptability", as that seems to be the only arguement you have presented so far?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And my pre-emptive response, which you quoted but apparently didn't quite catch:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As a side note, some have argued that it is in fact a disadvantage, and I am one of those people. I don't actually give two flips about whether you agree with me there, though, so I won't argue it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here's the argument I have presented in excruciating detail: <b>the remote control analogy is bad.</b> It is invalid. Useless. Limp. It is of no relevance to the original question of "does this script give its user an unfair advantage". As I have said three or four times now, I don't think it does. However, your analogy does nothing to prove or even illuminate things either way.
You come close - so close! - to a clue when you actually answer my explicit argument (despite having denied that I've made one) by saying that I got the question wrong. Alas, I meant what I said and I said what I meant. <b>I don't think the script gives you an advantage.</b> Obviously (or at least obviously to me), that question must be answered <i>before</i> you ask whether or not it's unfair.
You took the time to bold "in most aspects of life". I'm not sure why, since it changes nothing. I can tack that onto everything I've said and it remains the same. Neither does the put-the-emphasis-on-simplifying bit.
But! You rally! The crowd cheers! You almost have a clue again! You contend that leaping and then switching to bite is a "menial task" rather than a skill (such as aiming) and thus the comparison to aimbots is invalid. There are a couple answers to this. 1.) The aimbot comparison was simply an answer to your contention that something being common is a justification for it. 2.) If you don't think leaping and switching to bite and killing someone is a skill, let's see an NSPlayer do it once you've explained to him or her what leap is. It's a task requiring the performer to make some degree of use of hand-eye coordination and a sense of timing and distance in a simulated three dimensional space projected onto a 2-dimensional surface. I'm sorry, but if that's not a skill I don't know what is. For that matter, most menial tasks are just basic skills. Someone who has spent his life as a carpenter using a nailgun (simplifying the menial task of pounding in nails, you see) would produce some bad carpentry if suddenly forced to use a regular hammer.
Again: the only thing I really give a **** about is smacking down the remote control analogy, and only that because Enemy's snide tone irritated me. Also I'm bored.
Stoneburg, if person X flames person Y, and then person P says "flaming makes you look like an idiot," then person P has said that X looks like an idiot. I realized this isn't what you intended, which was why I didn't respond on kind, so to speak. Just sayin' it's a phrasing you may wish to be cautious of.
Personally, I think it makes you look like a pathetic loser that could stand a good shower, a good lay, and a little incentive to move out of your parents' basement, but hey.
Anyways - I'm done! I've said what I came to say and also called Enemy a chimp, which is enough.
Comments
I agree.
Scripts = Less Skill.
Its like playing Wolfenstein 3D on "Can I play, daddy?" level.
Okay, Im tired, but you get my point.
This is bull for the reasons I already stated. In addition, it's stupid (see: retarded, laughable, and otherwise brainless in nature) because the question was <i>never</i> "does it make things simpler?" <b>Of course</b> it makes things simpler, you moronic chimp. Would you like to state anything else that's blinding in its obviousness? No? Great. <b>The question</b>, stated explicitly for your benefit, is this: does its simplifying nature grant the script's user an advantage in a fight?
As a side note, some have argued that it is in fact a <i>dis</i>advantage, and I am one of those people. I don't actually give two flips about whether you agree with me there, though, so I won't argue it.
I'd like to go on making fun of you, though, if that's ok.
I like how you say "I was trying to show how simplifying things is common": it makes me laugh. Because, again, that wasn't the question. Not only was it not the question, it's a point which is enjoyably easiy to dismiss. Watch and learn, young grasshopper: <b>t's common to use an aimbot</b>. Alas, just because it's commonly done doesn't mean it's a good idea to do it.
Generally, when I lay the science on some poor slob, I try to give him or her a way out with dignity intact. I only say that in order to point out that in this case it's simply impossible. I could have couched this post in the most marshmallowy-soft language I can summon from my fingertips and you'd still look like a tool. So sorry.
Anyways, thanks for your time, play again next time, I'll be here all week, tip your waitress and try the veal etc. etc. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get your goat did I? I guess your opinion's are the only correct ones? The only thing I see you doing is insulting me and telling me I'm wrong. How about actually presenting a case? How about you explain how "this script limits your adaptability", as that seems to be the only arguement you have presented so far?
Your question "does its simplifying nature grant the script's user an advantage in a fight?" is not the topic of debate. Increasing your mouse sensitivity above the default will give you a MUCH bigger advantage than this script ever could. Having a fast computer with high FPS will do the same. There are many things that you can do to give yourself an advantage in a fight. Maybe you would like to discuss if it gives you an <b>unfair</b> advantage?
Misquote out of context much? I didn't say "I was trying to show how simplifying things is common", I said "I was trying to show how simplifying tasks is common <b>in most aspects of our life</b>." With the key part being "simplifying tasks" and not "common". That's a very big distinction that really makes your "watch and learn" aimbot arguement look foolish. Especially considering that I have already said "aiming" was a skill, and this is a discussion on the scripting of "menial" tasks and not "skill-based" ones.
If you can't debate...insult! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And let me finish with:
<!--QuoteBegin--mursu+May 5 2003, 10:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mursu @ May 5 2003, 10:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well the analogy hit home in my case.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So once again I say...I appreciate the advice (and insults <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) , but your failure to understand my post doesn't make it inappropriate.
And Stoneburg, you need to have "hud_fastswitch" set to "1" to make the script work. I edited the original post to reflect this. Also, Zer0 might be correct that you only need 1 wait. My original script didn't include the +/- separation. It was all one script on key press. In that case, it required the waits.
Oh, and for my opinion (as I have to keep this on topic, of course):
Making scripts that turn three buttons into one: Good (people are going to do it anyway, even if you cry about it)
Making scripts about the NS equilivency of Rocket jumping: Allowed (But still kinda stupid, since you are admiting that a three line script can do a better job then you can)
Downloading scripts instead of learning to code them yourself: Bad (You can't Rocket Jump, and you have to use someone else's 3-line script!)
And before anyone asks, Yes, I believe that if you can code anything that's called a cheat, you have a right to use it. It's not like I'll notice, I suck at the game anyways. I just have no respect for the guy who downloads an aimbot.
Yeah, i do this too, and with absolutely no effort, i can beat you "scripters" at your own game, because I don't have "wait; wait; wait;" in it. And i didnt even have to change the default controls.
BTW some scripting is considered cheating, this probably not one, but the silent bunny hop one and the pistol script would be, because it would be considered exploiting the game.
I've never used scripts, because i've took the time to learn how to do what scripts do myself. Which means i can deal with it when they're taken away. (1.1)
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well the phrase was "Flaming makes you look like an idiot", Mr. I-like-quoting-out-of-context, and 2-dollar words are fine, as long as I don't have to pay for them. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
"Silent bunny hop scripts"? How would that work. Some bunnyhoppers have jump bound to the mouse wheel, you make bunnyhopping silent by crouching... where is a script needed here?
I doubt that scripting will be taken out in 1.1, I could be wrong, I'm not keeping myself updated w/r/t 1.1 so... still, scripting is an integral part of Half-Life.
Two institutions decide what is and isn't cheating:
1. You
2. The server you play on
No matter how hard you scream you will not be 'right', because it is indeed subjective, if you really want to propagate your view of what is cheating I suggest you argue it calmly, oh, and with 'arguments' not insults <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
People themself decide what is and isn't cheating, server owners decide what is and isn't cheating. If you and the server you play on agree that soemthing isn't cheating then it isn't, simple as that.
Some might say that the Devs or Valve decide but that is like a legal system not supported by a police force, impotent, irrelevant. Only you or the server actually have any power to do something about it so that is who's opinion counts.
Just a side note:
People first claim that scripting gives an advantage and that is why you shouldn't use them, then they say that they themself are much better then the 'scripters' and that scripts will only hinder you..
Ps. I have hud_fastswitch 1, it's just that the latency messes it up, the amounts of "wait" needs to be adjusted to the latency and account for choke/pl as well I think.
And my pre-emptive response, which you quoted but apparently didn't quite catch:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As a side note, some have argued that it is in fact a disadvantage, and I am one of those people. I don't actually give two flips about whether you agree with me there, though, so I won't argue it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here's the argument I have presented in excruciating detail: <b>the remote control analogy is bad.</b> It is invalid. Useless. Limp. It is of no relevance to the original question of "does this script give its user an unfair advantage". As I have said three or four times now, I don't think it does. However, your analogy does nothing to prove or even illuminate things either way.
You come close - so close! - to a clue when you actually answer my explicit argument (despite having denied that I've made one) by saying that I got the question wrong. Alas, I meant what I said and I said what I meant. <b>I don't think the script gives you an advantage.</b> Obviously (or at least obviously to me), that question must be answered <i>before</i> you ask whether or not it's unfair.
You took the time to bold "in most aspects of life". I'm not sure why, since it changes nothing. I can tack that onto everything I've said and it remains the same. Neither does the put-the-emphasis-on-simplifying bit.
But! You rally! The crowd cheers! You almost have a clue again! You contend that leaping and then switching to bite is a "menial task" rather than a skill (such as aiming) and thus the comparison to aimbots is invalid. There are a couple answers to this.
1.) The aimbot comparison was simply an answer to your contention that something being common is a justification for it.
2.) If you don't think leaping and switching to bite and killing someone is a skill, let's see an NSPlayer do it once you've explained to him or her what leap is.
It's a task requiring the performer to make some degree of use of hand-eye coordination and a sense of timing and distance in a simulated three dimensional space projected onto a 2-dimensional surface. I'm sorry, but if that's not a skill I don't know what is.
For that matter, most menial tasks are just basic skills. Someone who has spent his life as a carpenter using a nailgun (simplifying the menial task of pounding in nails, you see) would produce some bad carpentry if suddenly forced to use a regular hammer.
Again: the only thing I really give a **** about is smacking down the remote control analogy, and only that because Enemy's snide tone irritated me. Also I'm bored.
Stoneburg, if person X flames person Y, and then person P says "flaming makes you look like an idiot," then person P has said that X looks like an idiot. I realized this isn't what you intended, which was why I didn't respond on kind, so to speak. Just sayin' it's a phrasing you may wish to be cautious of.
Personally, I think it makes you look like a pathetic loser that could stand a good shower, a good lay, and a little incentive to move out of your parents' basement, but hey.
Anyways - I'm done! I've said what I came to say and also called Enemy a chimp, which is enough.
I can see it's uses, however I just use hud_fastswitch "1".....
flame=bad
lck plz
** Bingity bangity lockity locked. **