Jp Balance/potential Counters (fade?)
Infected_Marine
Join Date: 2002-12-21 Member: 11287Members
Join Date: 2002-12-21 Member: 11287Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Not a complaint/Pre-Balance</div> <!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Apr 25 2003, 03:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Apr 25 2003, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O New "stomp" ability: at two hives, the Onos can stomp on the ground, stunning all nearby players for a couple seconds.
O New "devour" ability: at three hives, the Onos can devour an enemy whole. The player is then slowly digested, giving health back to the Onos, and effectively removing the player from the game for a short time.
O Bile bomb moved to 2nd hive gorge ability and affects structures only
O Web is now a 3rd hive gorge ability (babblers removed)…
…O Tightened HMG cone to make better vs. ranged fades/oni and harder to respond to skulk chomping on leg (changed from 10 degrees to 6 degrees)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now I am not one to speculate (at least not much. Really, I don’t!), but the above statements taken with only the Master change log (from which I derive these quotes, but it doesn’t include all of the changes) and 1.0 in mind, it would seem that other then the added time to develop JPs, JP rushing would be more powerful and/or a more viable tactic.
Now I know that JP rushing is only the most viable tactic (as of 1.04) on certain map/hives, and that it may be totally un-viable in 1.1, a teched up JP/HMG jetbo would be more powerful, not having to worry as much about webs and paralyze (assuming that Oni have Charge at Hive 1).
Now I am not complaining or pre-balancing, but rather speculating (as I so rarely do) about the lerk and fade as counters to the jetbos. Now I don’t know about the trully amazing biting lerks, but I myself usually reserve bites for the earthbound marines, and use spikes more frequently against jet packers.
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Apr 25 2003, 03:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Apr 25 2003, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Spores moved to 1 hive lerk ability, and damage reduced significantly. Spores no longer damage players through walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I can only imagine how effective a 1 hive spore cloud would be (as it is area affect, little aim needed) against Jet Packers.
But what about fades, and maybe more importantly, Paralyze (assuming the Onos don’t have it). I noted that the change log never said it was removed, and we can infer that the Fade has two unannounced abilities. We also know that there is a third new weapon/ability (Stomp and Devour being the first two) that most likely (in my opinion) is the Fade’s 3rd hive ability (replacing Bile bomb). Now I personally care little about this ability/power, but I would bet dollars to donuts that either Blink or Acid rocket (which would then replace Blink) has been replaced by paralyze. This would give Fades amazing anti-JP power with a paralyze and slash or acid rocket combo.
Then again I may be way off.
O New "devour" ability: at three hives, the Onos can devour an enemy whole. The player is then slowly digested, giving health back to the Onos, and effectively removing the player from the game for a short time.
O Bile bomb moved to 2nd hive gorge ability and affects structures only
O Web is now a 3rd hive gorge ability (babblers removed)…
…O Tightened HMG cone to make better vs. ranged fades/oni and harder to respond to skulk chomping on leg (changed from 10 degrees to 6 degrees)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now I am not one to speculate (at least not much. Really, I don’t!), but the above statements taken with only the Master change log (from which I derive these quotes, but it doesn’t include all of the changes) and 1.0 in mind, it would seem that other then the added time to develop JPs, JP rushing would be more powerful and/or a more viable tactic.
Now I know that JP rushing is only the most viable tactic (as of 1.04) on certain map/hives, and that it may be totally un-viable in 1.1, a teched up JP/HMG jetbo would be more powerful, not having to worry as much about webs and paralyze (assuming that Oni have Charge at Hive 1).
Now I am not complaining or pre-balancing, but rather speculating (as I so rarely do) about the lerk and fade as counters to the jetbos. Now I don’t know about the trully amazing biting lerks, but I myself usually reserve bites for the earthbound marines, and use spikes more frequently against jet packers.
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Apr 25 2003, 03:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Apr 25 2003, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Spores moved to 1 hive lerk ability, and damage reduced significantly. Spores no longer damage players through walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I can only imagine how effective a 1 hive spore cloud would be (as it is area affect, little aim needed) against Jet Packers.
But what about fades, and maybe more importantly, Paralyze (assuming the Onos don’t have it). I noted that the change log never said it was removed, and we can infer that the Fade has two unannounced abilities. We also know that there is a third new weapon/ability (Stomp and Devour being the first two) that most likely (in my opinion) is the Fade’s 3rd hive ability (replacing Bile bomb). Now I personally care little about this ability/power, but I would bet dollars to donuts that either Blink or Acid rocket (which would then replace Blink) has been replaced by paralyze. This would give Fades amazing anti-JP power with a paralyze and slash or acid rocket combo.
Then again I may be way off.
Comments
i believe stomp replaces paralyze completely, with the difference in that it gets anyone nearby, (no more near-misses!) but doesnt hit jetpackers (changelog states that jets are the counter to onos)
about the counter to jets? i have to guess that with the jet fps glitch being resolved, they will ahve to land frequently and my leaping skulk will take care of them just fine. although that lerk gas area attack sounds like a neato idea too.
Good point (if the Fades new ability is powerful enough, they would be gods with paralyze), as fades will most likely keep blink, it makes sense I think, I haven't slept a wink. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I guess it has been confirmed, Blink is in:
<!--QuoteBegin--lagger+May 13 2003, 10:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lagger @ May 13 2003, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Fades can blink through mines to detonate them taking no damage*<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Posted by a veteran <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=30&t=30827&st=15' target='_blank'>here</a>.
Whoo hoo!
Actually lagger and Eats are both right. I've blinked right over mines and not taken damage some. I've also blinked right over mines and taken damage.
EDIT: And, yes, Paralyze is gone. Onai have weapons (in this order): Gore, Stomp, Devour, Charge.
It seems that even though the jetpacks won't be as overpowering as in the previous version, fades won't be as key in stopping them since they get acid rocket at third hive. It looks like right now lerks are going to be filling the air with spores and spiking, and gorges are going to throw down with the new and improved Offense Chamber (now shoots spikes! Mo' accurate! Mo' fun! Mo' Bettah!). Hives are supposed to be cheaper, so third hive abilities will probably play a bit more of a role in the game, but it seems fades are out of the picture for upper range attacks in the beginning. Blink now appears to only be usable going along the ground, so you can't even use that to get up to a high ledge that a jper is resting his tired wings on.
If only I knew what the hive 2 ability was....which is why i'm browsing the forums at 3:30 AM...instead of studying physics...
Dahm yoo MonsE and your Freaky PR Style!!!!