Listen Twex, I've seen HL2 in action. All I'm saying is that HL2 is going to open the door for amazing new gameplay, and I didn't elaborate earlier because my post was already getting long.
I'll address only the physics comment. The new physics engine alone could add an unending array of gameplay possiblities by itself. Imagine you're a marine, and you and some buddies are trying to set up a base as fast as you can, but you have no upgrades or heavy armor. Suddenly, an Onos busts through the wall (which would be possible in HL2). Now, with the current gameplay, you have only one option: shoot futily and die. But maybe, in the HL2 engine, you could try and push over a stack of crates on to the Onos? Or destroy a support structure to send some heavy metal crashing down on the Onos? The possibilities go on and on, you just have to take the time to consider them.
Now, I'm sorry for the insults on your intelligence, but I was just so.. aggravated, I guess, by your original post. I just don't see how we can be on the verge of the next generation of PC gaming and there are still people who want to remain in the past. You have to consider the fact that the PC Gaming market back when Half-Life originally came out was dying too. I remember reading about how some thought the PC gaming industry was in it's deathrows, little hope for the future, etc. Half-Life came out of nowhere and started, as it seems, a completely new generation of PC gaming. I expect, from what I've already seen, that HL2 will do the same.
<!--QuoteBegin---Coestar-+May 18 2003, 02:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Coestar- @ May 18 2003, 02:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Or destroy a support structure to send some heavy metal crashing down on the Onos? The possibilities go on and on, you just have to take the time to consider them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Better yet, if weight of player characters is something that Havok takes into consideration, perhaps the Onos will fall to his death if you can lure him onto a rickety catwalk over a bottomless pit?
Guys......I seriously doubt any of this amazing physics stuff will be any sort of multiplayer.....There is such a thing as an internet connection which all movable objects have to communicate through to create the same exact scene on multiple pc's....
I visited the unreal tournament 2003 forums a while back, and do you know how many people were trying to create amazing realism mods hoping they could create a new CS...lots. I really wanted to tell them that with the UT2K3 netcode they didn't have a hope in hell....
All I can say is that unless they have some truelly impressive netcode to go with this, I really wont be surprised if all our old HL mods outlast anything for HL2.
but i have an idea, u have to remember that becuase this physics system has no outside factors affecting it such as wind or other the results of an action in manny cases if not all are always exactly the same no-matter what computer your on. Therefore the netcode can simply tell the other players on the game what each other are doing then each individuals PC could create the physics effects useing the CPU
not sure if this would work, buts its just a thought
DelaZInsurgency Mod Mapper, Texture ArtistJoin Date: 2002-04-27Member: 523Members
edited May 2003
HL2 Multiplayer Physics clarifications Email exchange with Gabe Newell and Yahn Bernier on HL2 multiplayer physics. Edited for length and non-relevant blabber (from my side). First email first, last email last..
Timm The physics in the single player part (judging from the movies from E3) look absolutely fantastic, but how will physics work in multiplayer? Won't there be a problem with sending all the physics information packets to all the players? Are you perhaps scaling the physics engine down for multiplayer?
Gabe "Well, the simple answer is that there are client-side and server-side physics behaviors. You use client-side when maintaining cross-client coherence isn't important. This cuts down network traffice while maintaining the appearance of physical simulation throughout the world.
Yahn, anything you'd elaborate on?"
Yahn (follow up on Gabe's question) "No, that's basically correct."
Me (asking for clarification) "So basically what you are saying is that the physics appear to the player just like they do in the single player game without scaling it down, but objects that aren't required to have a correct placement in the world (like soda cans, small rocks, and so on) will be handled client-side, but bigger things (like a crate that's thrown on a player with the gravity gun, or a mattress falling down to block a hole in the ground) will appear in the correct spot for all players?"
Yahn "Yes, it's definable per-object, so exactly what's client vs. server simulated is tunable."
Thanks Delaz... You got any other info on the net code. I am of the beleif that it is the most significant thing that made CS possible (actually being able to fire at the opposition and hit them, unlike games like UT2K3), and made HL the most popular multiplayer game of all time.
I rather interested, as it seems to me that the popularity of HL2 will also depend a fair bit on this. Graphics as seen in UT2K3 just dont cut it when the multiplayer performance is dismal.
Anyway, on my previous point, I was basically saying that the extravagant stuff people are describing simply wont be possible. It will be much the same as HL, where the mapper decides what things are "breakable" or "movable", and the environments will not be truelly interactive. I'm not bagging HL2 in any way, I mean we cant expect any game to give is full world interactivity, I just believe that so long as the netcode is equal to or better than HL, its a safe bet that HL2 will indeed replace old HL, and mod teams will be rejoicing.
Again, thanks for the link Delaz, I like the info <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Phant0m51+May 18 2003, 05:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Phant0m51 @ May 18 2003, 05:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, I just found this at <a href='http://www.ign.com' target='_blank'>IGN.com</a>:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The team's current vision of the system requirements allows machines as low as P700MHz with 128RAM and a DirectX6 level card to run the game. They're supporting the lower level of system requirements but also allowing for expandability as technology moves forward. Though the game will probably ship before the full rollout of DX9, the modular engine has built-in support for some of the new features and may even support later versions of DirectX. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There you have it, Vavle's hopes and dreams! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> well... im screwed.... 633 Celeron with a intel 810 chipset gfx .
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
My machine is a 500mhz celeron with 256mb of sd ram and a 32mb GF2MX. I am 100% confident that I will get a playable framerate in HL2 with this computer. I've been playing games with much higher system requirments than HL2 (Morrowind anyone?) for a long time now and I know that it just takes a little tweaking to get the right framerate on almost any game. You people need to learn a bit about your system's capabilitys.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyway, on my previous point, I was basically saying that the extravagant stuff people are describing simply wont be possible. It will be much the same as HL, where the mapper decides what things are "breakable" or "movable", and the environments will not be truelly interactive. I'm not bagging HL2 in any way, I mean we cant expect any game to give is full world interactivity, I just believe that so long as the netcode is equal to or better than HL, its a safe bet that HL2 will indeed replace old HL, and mod teams will be rejoicing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think much like now in multiplayer maps, you won't see many if any interactive objects. In single player its a different story of course. With NS, many maps don't require interactive objects, although it would be cool, its not needed. Besides, with the HL2 engine mappers can do all the stuff they can only immitate in HL2. Realistic shadows (instead of tricks with textures and transparency), wires swooping down from the cieling (instead of transparent textures), silos that seem to never end, hive rooms that feel alien.
Of course if your making a realism mod, then yeah you need to have stuff that responds, but that could simply be some tables that tip over.
I've said that before. "I won't be able to play it when it comes out." But by the time the game comes out, my PC is twice as fast as it was. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am currently upgrading my computer over the next few months, until September. I WILL have a computer that can run Half Life 2 by the time it is released. I have already purchased a new monitor. Oh yes. My computer will be able to run Half Life 2. Indeed it will.
Comments
I'll address only the physics comment. The new physics engine alone could add an unending array of gameplay possiblities by itself. Imagine you're a marine, and you and some buddies are trying to set up a base as fast as you can, but you have no upgrades or heavy armor. Suddenly, an Onos busts through the wall (which would be possible in HL2). Now, with the current gameplay, you have only one option: shoot futily and die. But maybe, in the HL2 engine, you could try and push over a stack of crates on to the Onos? Or destroy a support structure to send some heavy metal crashing down on the Onos? The possibilities go on and on, you just have to take the time to consider them.
Now, I'm sorry for the insults on your intelligence, but I was just so.. aggravated, I guess, by your original post. I just don't see how we can be on the verge of the next generation of PC gaming and there are still people who want to remain in the past. You have to consider the fact that the PC Gaming market back when Half-Life originally came out was dying too. I remember reading about how some thought the PC gaming industry was in it's deathrows, little hope for the future, etc. Half-Life came out of nowhere and started, as it seems, a completely new generation of PC gaming. I expect, from what I've already seen, that HL2 will do the same.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Better yet, if weight of player characters is something that Havok takes into consideration, perhaps the Onos will fall to his death if you can lure him onto a rickety catwalk over a bottomless pit?
Physics > you.
I visited the unreal tournament 2003 forums a while back, and do you know how many people were trying to create amazing realism mods hoping they could create a new CS...lots. I really wanted to tell them that with the UT2K3 netcode they didn't have a hope in hell....
All I can say is that unless they have some truelly impressive netcode to go with this, I really wont be surprised if all our old HL mods outlast anything for HL2.
but i have an idea, u have to remember that becuase this physics system has no outside factors affecting it such as wind or other the results of an action in manny cases if not all are always exactly the same no-matter what computer your on. Therefore the netcode can simply tell the other players on the game what each other are doing then each individuals PC could create the physics effects useing the CPU
not sure if this would work, buts its just a thought
Half life 2 will outrank it
Email exchange with Gabe Newell and Yahn Bernier on HL2 multiplayer physics. Edited for length and non-relevant blabber (from my side). First email first, last email last..
Timm
The physics in the single player part (judging from the movies from E3) look absolutely fantastic, but how will physics work in multiplayer? Won't there be a problem with sending all the physics information packets to all the players? Are you perhaps scaling the physics engine down for multiplayer?
Gabe
"Well, the simple answer is that there are client-side and server-side physics behaviors. You use client-side when maintaining cross-client coherence isn't important. This cuts down network traffice while maintaining the appearance of physical simulation throughout the world.
Yahn, anything you'd elaborate on?"
Yahn (follow up on Gabe's question)
"No, that's basically correct."
Me (asking for clarification)
"So basically what you are saying is that the physics appear to the player just like they do in the single player game without scaling it down, but objects that aren't required to have a correct placement in the world (like soda cans, small rocks, and so on) will be handled client-side, but bigger things (like a crate that's thrown on a player with the gravity gun, or a mattress falling down to block a hole in the
ground) will appear in the correct spot for all players?"
Yahn
"Yes, it's definable per-object, so exactly what's client vs. server simulated is tunable."
<a href='http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=7547848' target='_blank'>http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=7547848</a>
I rather interested, as it seems to me that the popularity of HL2 will also depend a fair bit on this. Graphics as seen in UT2K3 just dont cut it when the multiplayer performance is dismal.
Anyway, on my previous point, I was basically saying that the extravagant stuff people are describing simply wont be possible. It will be much the same as HL, where the mapper decides what things are "breakable" or "movable", and the environments will not be truelly interactive. I'm not bagging HL2 in any way, I mean we cant expect any game to give is full world interactivity, I just believe that so long as the netcode is equal to or better than HL, its a safe bet that HL2 will indeed replace old HL, and mod teams will be rejoicing.
Again, thanks for the link Delaz, I like the info <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The team's current vision of the system requirements allows machines as low as P700MHz with 128RAM and a DirectX6 level card to run the game. They're supporting the lower level of system requirements but also allowing for expandability as technology moves forward. Though the game will probably ship before the full rollout of DX9, the modular engine has built-in support for some of the new features and may even support later versions of DirectX. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There you have it, Vavle's hopes and dreams! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
well... im screwed.... 633 Celeron with a intel 810 chipset gfx .
my intel 810 chipset throws out 30 fps at its best so far..
would more RAM help me..
i am actually a p.c noob..
I think much like now in multiplayer maps, you won't see many if any interactive objects. In single player its a different story of course. With NS, many maps don't require interactive objects, although it would be cool, its not needed. Besides, with the HL2 engine mappers can do all the stuff they can only immitate in HL2. Realistic shadows (instead of tricks with textures and transparency), wires swooping down from the cieling (instead of transparent textures), silos that seem to never end, hive rooms that feel alien.
Of course if your making a realism mod, then yeah you need to have stuff that responds, but that could simply be some tables that tip over.