The Circle Of Life...

Rokiyo · May 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">JP>ONOS>HA>FADE>JP - still true?</div> I heard talk of various things being implemented in 1.1 which lead me to believe that this little circle was going to be created:

Basically that Onos were countered by Jetpacks
Jetpacks were countered by fades
Fades were countered by Heavy Armour
Heavy Armour was countered by Onos

However I don't see either Fades or the Jetpacks having the ability to counter those classes at the moment... Is the dev team still trying to head in this general direction or not?

How good is the new blink against jetpacks? Seeing as JPs cant stay in the air for too long anymore, could a fade just blink around until the JP lands? Is it often used like that?

Gliss · May 2003

Hopefully, the empty slot will be something Jetpack-defensive, so, we'll find out =)
Since Acid Rocket is bumped up to the third hive weapon, I'm pretty sure they'll come up with something that counters Jetpacks.

Khaim · May 2003

um the purpose of 1.1 was NOT to create a top lvl tech 'circle of life' as you put it, asides from that i cant realy say cuz well... i couldn't realy understand what you meant/asked in your post...

Neoskeptic · May 2003

it's a rock-paper-scissors type of concept. rock beats scrissors, paper beats rock, scissors beats paper. Similarly, what he said in the first post

oh and before we forget..

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'> beats all. ^_^

Eats · May 2003

no. That isn't true.

And if it were it wouldn't make sense. Onos cost far too much to be countered by a single jp.

Rokiyo · May 2003

But Flayra actually said himself that JPs would now be the official Onos counter. Not so much one lone JP, but similar amounts of res expenditure...

Eats · May 2003

I know, but thats not the way he put it. I'm telling you how things are. Not how things are meant to be. As of now I would not call jetpacks a counter to Onai. They were a better counter till recently, but new jetpack changes make it pretty easy for an onos to own a jper.

However if jps do become a counter to onos the game is messed up again because no real counter exists vs jpers as of now. Fades can't even attack air units till 3 hives. And lerks could at best be called an equal, but this game isn't meant to be lerks vs jpers. Also the new gl has crazy dmg spam, and I think jp glers would tear through lerks.

GoldenShadow · May 2003

I think the idea is that JP can fly up to high ledges that the onos can't reach. it makes the onos a sitting duck.

Exploding-Man · May 2003

We'll see how it turns out. If it tanks then im sure the NS team will fix it in the next update.

Eats · May 2003

not really golden. The onos can just run by or away and then heal ridiculously fast with regen. I swear like over 100 hp a tick. It's sick. Then if jper follows he gets owned.

Geronimo · May 2003

100 hp per tick? thats about 33-50 hp per second you know...

lagger · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Revenge @ May 20 2003, 02:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I heard talk of various things being implemented in 1.1 which lead me to believe that this little circle was going to be created:

Basically that Onos were countered by Jetpacks
Jetpacks were countered by fades
Fades were countered by Heavy Armour
Heavy Armour was countered by Onos

However I don't see either Fades or the Jetpacks having the ability to counter those classes at the moment... Is the dev team still trying to head in this general direction or not?

How good is the new blink against jetpacks? Seeing as JPs cant stay in the air for too long anymore, could a fade just blink around until the JP lands? Is it often used like that? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
this "circle" is more like
Jp > onos
onos > ha/all other ground
ha > fade *ie: they wont die from fade but wont kill fade*, skulks, lerks, and unsmart ono's *ie: onos that dont use stomp*
other ground > lerks *and skulks if upgraded*
lerks > jp *kinda... need to hide behind meat shields*
fade *WILL not die from anything and may kill stuff randomly with blink+swipe*

Regen on a fade also ticks at 70+ hp per, and regen ticks occur faster. *Most vets use regen over carapace atm*

Eats · May 2003

I think saying jp > onos right now is going pretty overboard. You can predict where they are going to land with new jp system and chase them down, stomp, own. If they do fly up to some high place you can always just go wait outside the room while healing comically fast. As soon as they get down or try to leave lay down the stomp-own combo.

KingKupo · May 2003

i can't remember onos being weak to JPers(paralyze, perhaps?) and fades weak to HA(kinda more like an even match). i hope the third hive weapon will be something to kill those annoying rambo's with. also, the onos in the new version needs one attack to end the JPer(devour). or stomp and attack all of them. and he only need perhaps a second to do this.

Pulse · May 2003

Yes, what kingkupo said, what is all this talk about the jp>onos currently (1.04)? Even in 1.0 a jp marine never stood a chance against an onos (paralyze pwnz j00).

Nemesis_Zero · May 2003

Let's say that in effect, there is an aim for a rock-paper-scissor type of countering. As we have not yet even all gameplay elements in place, the current build can however not possibly accomplish this.

Oh, and keep in mind that Oni don't have para in 1.1. They crush whatever is on the ground, but <i>need</i> support against air units.

Pulse · May 2003

Thats why I said 1.04...

Frogg2 · May 2003

actually fades aren't bad against JPs, ive succesfully taken down alot of JPs in one game at ns_lost, even against HMGs it is hard to hit blinking fades. In this new build you can jump blink, so if you jump then press blink you can fly thru the air, the fade won't fall 'til you release blink, so a blink then quick switch to slash and you have a hurt JPer. Also Fades can use this ability to scale walls, much like the skulks wallclimbing, except you don't stick to the wall.

lagger · May 2003

the big thing is, jps dont ushally start confrontations with the enemy.. they just land on the hive and blow it up.. since the entire kharra team is onos/fade ... makes it somewhat hard to get on the hive *fades can get on the hive now due to changes in blink* the fade blink air jump ownz lol.

Forlorn · May 2003

I think the idea of jetpacks countering Onos is that sure, 1v1 the onos will lose, but say increase that number of the marines, to 3v1 or even 2v1(providing they got HMG's) the onos will be owned.

The idea that it's a counter means <b>less-effective</b>, not uber kill all to this type of class. It's a counter in the sense that you have say, 6 Jetpackers vs 6 onos, the onos will win, but at a huge cost(maybe like 3-4 onos), and being a huge blow to the alien team, esp. res wise.

The Circle Of Life...

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