Jp/hmg Rushes

MrSNEAKY

<div class="IPBDescription">They always will be I believe</div> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Umm I believe there will always be jp/hmg rushes and nothing I think can be done to do away with it not even from Vt's and PT's..well come to think of it there is but I don't wanna say it lol then it may really royally messup the game tremendously.

Skillzilla1

Well, now JP HMG is higher on the tech tree, which fixes the problem of it coming too early, which fixes the "unbalancedness" of it. So something has been done about it... Thx.

lolfighter

Huh? How come my eyes are bleeding all of a sudden?

Skillzilla1

Maybe too many repeating/worthless posts? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <3 to all thx.

Speed_2_Dave

I pity anyone who plays on a server where the aliens don't know how to kill HMG/JP'ers. It's the tastiest way to make a winning marine team LOSE.

Here's a hint for everyone whining about the over-powered HMG/JP. HMGs shoot fast, don't run in front of them. Don't suicide yourself, but don't let him get the hive. Some start points make aliens say things like "Oh #@%, better wait on that 2nd hive, we have to def this up first," while others make them say, "hehe, you guys want 2 hives, or three?" It's all about strats, and if your standard alien strat can't stop marines in something as sad as the hmg/jp rush, find a better server.

Skillzilla1

HMG JP are a little over-powered (mostly because of the 100fps fuel thing) but if you have Lerks you should be fine...

0blique

Is it just me, or is this whole thread completely pointless?

NumbersNotFound

Ah yes... and at 1.0 everybody shouting "HA HMG" was SOO much different than now..

Hida_Tsuzua

Even the vets, top clanners of NS, don't seem to be major HMG/JP rushers in 1.1i. I take that to be a good sign. Lvl3LMG/JP rushes are the worst jp rush I've seen.

Frogg2

To be honest HMG with a JP is more like moonwalking.

MagiTek

In 1.04, the JP/HMG rush is unbalanced. The real problem isn't that a lone JP trooper can kill a hive, or that he has infinite fuel. The aliens have powerful counters to JP/HMG, such as webs, umbra and acid rocket. The unbalance lies within the "rush" aspect of the strat; that it is very easy for the marines to get this top-tier unit before the aliens can acquire their counters. Once the second hive completes, an alien team with any coordination at all should have no trouble preventing jetpackers from killing hives. But since a strong JP/HMG rush can field troopers before that second hive is even started, you run into a situation where aliens have no proper counter and will lose on a consistent basis.

I think a good comparison could be made using umbra. People don't complain about umbra right now, because by the time the aliens get it the marines should have the proper counter (gren launchers). But what if umbra was the lerk's 1-hive ability? As soon as the aliens hit 33 res, everyone goes lerk, flies into the marine base and tears everything to shreds. The marines could be "elite" knifers or spend ungodly amounts of res coating their base in mines, sure. But overall you would find the marines losing on a consistent basis simply because they would not be able to acquire the proper counter for the enemy's advanced ability in time.

In 1.1, the big changes are that hives can be started sooner, and JP/HMG requires more time to tech to. The result is that, unless the marines are totally dominating, the aliens should have a second hive before the marines have JP/HMG. Even if they don't, a few other tweaks (increased OC accuracy, ease getting early lerks) give the aliens something to work with.

I really don't see the need for JPs themselves to be nerfed too hard. Considering how high they are on the tech tree, a skilled JP/HMG trooper should be someone to fear. Even if jetpacks have lots of fuel and 100fps worth of thrust, as long as the jetpacker has to touch the ground to recharge I'm happy. The playing field between JP/HMG and the second hive has been leveled, so if the hives get killed by a lone JP/HMG in 1.1 then it's the aliens' own fault.