problem with relocating: Any aliens worth their salt will be all over your relocation, if you relocate to any place worth relocating to (holo room/processing, cargo bay, mess hall or mother interface, etc). You will fail the relocate most of the time.
Never said JP rushes weren't abusive, just that they weren't instant losses. Still, it's a series of factors (marines owning skulks, slow early game alien economy, etc.) coupled with the JP rush that truly makes it abusive.
You make it sound like taking out the DCs under the hive is the easiest thing in the world. There will be OCs, and there will be a lerk. If the aliens aren't rushing for a 2nd hive like idiots, that is.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lux+May 29 2003, 05:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lux @ May 29 2003, 05:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> there is no way that there will be a 1.05, 1.1 is changed so much that flayra does not want to go back, plus it would really slow down 1.1 if he had to make some temp fix thing, not very practical. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And I call bull**** on your claim that it would 'really slow down 1.1' if he changed three constants in the 1.04 codebase, and recompiled it.
That's all <b><i>anyone</i></b> is asking for, is for a 1.05 patch to come out that knocks JPs back to the realm of HA for both research and purchase time and cost. That's IT. That's 3 static numbers, likely all in the same include file, to change and recompile. Time to complete? About 3-10 minutes for Flayra, and the time to pass the patch around to the servers which doesn't slow down 1.1 at all since it's dependant on the coding speed of Flayra far more than anything else.
Benefit to the community? A lot, because it will make sure there <i><b>IS</b></i> a community to play 1.1 when it's finally released. If Flayra really doesn't want to go back to the 1.04 codebase, that's fine, but all that's wanted is for JP to be placed dead alongside HA for all costs, near as I can read. Not for a 1.05 to be throughly beta-tested to hell and back, just a hotfix to quiet things down.
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+May 31 2003, 02:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ May 31 2003, 02:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And I call bull**** on your claim that it would 'really slow down 1.1' if he changed three constants in the 1.04 codebase, and recompiled it.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm, could ofcourse be that Flayra has been a Naughty coder, and doesn't have a 1.04 codebase, simply because he just made his changes and recompiled.
That would make a 1.05 patch a very difficult thing indeed...
<!--QuoteBegin--Grubsnik+May 31 2003, 12:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Grubsnik @ May 31 2003, 12:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmm, could ofcourse be that Flayra has been a Naughty coder, and doesn't have a 1.04 codebase, simply because he just made his changes and recompiled.
That would make a 1.05 patch a very difficult thing indeed... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not bloody likely, considering Flayra has worked on commercial applications, games, and other software for years now. If he's not using versioning systems yet, I'd be shocked and awed, considering I even have versioning systems on my PalmPilot for crisakes. :-)
And once you start using versioning systems, it's easier to just keep using them than to leave them behind after picking them up. Yeah, ya' may get a little lax about using them 'properly' for your own stuff, like a Half-Life mod, but they're still there and mostly in place.
<!--QuoteBegin--Kazyras+May 30 2003, 02:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kazyras @ May 30 2003, 02:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> YES, the marines dominate far too much, YES, JP/HMG -is- abusive, however a JP/HMG rush is NOT a free win for them if you play it smart. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No one claimed JP/HMG always wins the game. The point is, as you say, that it is abusive. Indeed building some DC and OC at 1st hive will make jp/hmg rush difficult.
But it also delays obtaining 2nd hive: 3 OC's + 3 DC's cost as much as a hive, and the time spend building OC's and DC's, is time not spend building res chambers. (it would be different if only aliens could afford TWO gorges early in the game)
I agree, forcing the Alien team to use teamwork and tactics in a game that really should just be about running around and getting frags is indeed abusive.
Oh, and what makes JP/HMG so easy to defeat is the fact that it is exactly what aliens anticipates. Actually, the JP/HMG rush has made *other* tactics more valid since they often come as a surprise.
I fell in love with NS in 1.4, and I still love it. So flame me! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
flay's biggest mistake was mentioning the release of 1.1 so quickly...
he shouldve made a 1.05 to address minor errors... then make 1.1 because it was obvious 1.1 would take a long time to program/playtest due to the totally new gameplay factor...
I really need to stop visiting Gen forum... Arch-what minor errors are you talking about? The lack of a toggleeditps (which has to be done with a client-side patch)? all of the 1.0x updates were server side, I think you might have forgotten that. 1.04 is very balanced, at least on the servers where I play (where people of equal skill try to balance the teams). Maybe you should try a real server?
Whilst 1.04 isn't perfectly balanced, this doesn't stop it from being a fantastic game. NS is, quite simply, an amazing game with outstanding gameplay and atmosphere. Flayra and the devs have done an outstanding job, and need I remind everyone that the game is FREE. If anything we should be down on our knees kissing Flayra's foot for giving us this incredible game. And it's only going to get BETTER with 1.1 and subsequent patches. So please, stop with the 1.04 bashing, try some differant servers out and enjoy the game. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Any aliens worth their salt will be all over your relocation, if you relocate to any place worth relocating to (holo room/processing, cargo bay, mess hall or mother interface, etc). You will fail the relocate most of the time.
And lerks are very good against jp'ers.
You make it sound like taking out the DCs under the hive is the easiest thing in the world. There will be OCs, and there will be a lerk. If the aliens aren't rushing for a 2nd hive like idiots, that is.
And I call bull**** on your claim that it would 'really slow down 1.1' if he changed three constants in the 1.04 codebase, and recompiled it.
That's all <b><i>anyone</i></b> is asking for, is for a 1.05 patch to come out that knocks JPs back to the realm of HA for both research and purchase time and cost. That's IT. That's 3 static numbers, likely all in the same include file, to change and recompile. Time to complete? About 3-10 minutes for Flayra, and the time to pass the patch around to the servers which doesn't slow down 1.1 at all since it's dependant on the coding speed of Flayra far more than anything else.
Benefit to the community? A lot, because it will make sure there <i><b>IS</b></i> a community to play 1.1 when it's finally released. If Flayra really doesn't want to go back to the 1.04 codebase, that's fine, but all that's wanted is for JP to be placed dead alongside HA for all costs, near as I can read. Not for a 1.05 to be throughly beta-tested to hell and back, just a hotfix to quiet things down.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, could ofcourse be that Flayra has been a Naughty coder, and doesn't have a 1.04 codebase, simply because he just made his changes and recompiled.
That would make a 1.05 patch a very difficult thing indeed...
That would make a 1.05 patch a very difficult thing indeed... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not bloody likely, considering Flayra has worked on commercial applications, games, and other software for years now. If he's not using versioning systems yet, I'd be shocked and awed, considering I even have versioning systems on my PalmPilot for crisakes. :-)
And once you start using versioning systems, it's easier to just keep using them than to leave them behind after picking them up. Yeah, ya' may get a little lax about using them 'properly' for your own stuff, like a Half-Life mod, but they're still there and mostly in place.
YES, the marines dominate far too much, YES, JP/HMG -is- abusive, however a JP/HMG rush is NOT a free win for them if you play it smart. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one claimed JP/HMG always wins the game. The point is, as you say, that it is abusive.
Indeed building some DC and OC at 1st hive will make jp/hmg rush difficult.
But it also delays obtaining 2nd hive: 3 OC's + 3 DC's cost as much as a hive, and the time spend building OC's and DC's, is time not spend building res chambers. (it would be different if only aliens could afford TWO gorges early in the game)
Oh, and what makes JP/HMG so easy to defeat is the fact that it is exactly what aliens anticipates. Actually, the JP/HMG rush has made *other* tactics more valid since they often come as a surprise.
he shouldve made a 1.05 to address minor errors... then make 1.1 because it was obvious 1.1 would take a long time to program/playtest due to the totally new gameplay factor...