Sucking Gone?

kingmob · May 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">...that sucks (pun intended)</div> I saw in the Beta Discussion that gorge sucking has been removed

i am disappointed in this because this was one of the features i was looking forward too.

i don't know how many times i have been sitting by a res node just waiting for resources
so i could build a res node

i know it is a balance issue
so perhaps it could be really really slow
even the littleest amount would be encouraging rather than sitting...its like building offense towers...you don't have to ...you just might as well while you wait for more res

or perhaps other aliens could belch resources to the gorge ...allowing the gorge to res up faster

i dunno
i am just venting my disappointment

Typhon · May 2003

I suspect it will return in some fasion before 1.1 is done. Its a very neat feature, but it was just too strong so they removed it for now.

HAMBone · May 2003

It was a good idea, but I think removing it is the right thing - it would have been very hard if not impossible to balance.

Applicator · May 2003

I agree, sucking had to go.

Demonmerc · May 2003

It was just way, way too fast. They should've made it relatively slow (1-2 res every 10 seconds). If a gorge has some down time with no resources, it will help in some small way to get his next structure out. But 6-12 res a minute compared to 24 now would stop the problems.

SentrySteve · May 2003

if they kept it in and just made it go really really slow would you still use it? It probably, just like everything else, causes a sound. I can pick up many alien sounds, and nothing would help me find the gorge quicker than the sound of him sucking on a node -- for what -- two or three res? If it was kept in but had it so the res flow from it was decreased significantly, I would not use it for fear of being spotted by the marines - and if I was the marines I would hope that he sucks all the nodes he can -- more of a chance I can get him.

Racer1 · May 2003

Unfortunately, this also brings back the problem of people crucifying those who go second+ gorge. Often, it is warranted to have 2 gorges with the 1.04 resource system, but too often the extra gorges just get in the way. I was hoping that the res sucking would make this problem mostly go away...I hope they at least add limited sucking to 1.1.

my 2 cents

Hida_Tsuzua · May 2003

Gorges will have the same drain as rp as any other class so the numbers don't matter. The reduced costs will make up for a lack of rp boosters.

BreakfastSausages · May 2003

if gorges can't suck, and they only get an equal share of the resources how will anything ever get built?

as I understood it sucking gave diminishing returns, but that wasn't enough, so why not just put a hard cap on it. Like if you have 20 res or more sucking gives you 0. (just some random numbers, obviously I dont know what would be a good number to balance the rest of the game)

or

put a limit on the number of res which can be sucked from each node per round, but no limit on the amount of res that can be collected through capping the node. so if a gorge wants to suck he will have to risk himself by moving around the map, and he must eventually cap nodes or his team economy will be screwed.

clamatius · May 2003

As Hida Tsuzua pointed out, alien buildings cost less now. That's how they will get built.

matso · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (clamatius @ May 30 2003, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> As Hida Tsuzua pointed out, alien buildings cost less now. That's how they will get built.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 

Well, they are reduced from their high 1.1 costs (20), but the costs must be dropping through the floor compared to 1.04 if you are going to get anything like that amount of buildings up - the problem being that a gorge are looking at getting FAR LESS resources than in 1.04, and with no promise of a future overflow, either.

clamatius · May 2003

One particularly important change in the latest patch is that the RT cost went down a whole bunch. That means that the aliens can get RTs set up at a much faster rate in the beginning of the game, historically one of their weak points.

Hopefully that will compensate for the reduced res flow.

matso · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (clamatius @ May 30 2003, 06:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> One particularly important change in the latest patch is that the RT cost went down a whole bunch. That means that the aliens can get RTs set up at a much faster rate in the beginning of the game, historically one of their weak points.

Hopefully that will compensate for the reduced res flow.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 

Yea, but the real question is how long time it takes for a gorge to get one RT's worth of res. With sucking, it was about 45-55 seconds to get 22 res, if I have understood it correctly, no matter the number of aliens on the team. 20-30 sec worth of sucking to build an OC.

How long time will it take to get 10 res for a gorge with the new model, assuming an 8 player team and a varying number of res nodes? Anyone knows the formula?

Skillzilla1 · May 2003

From the sounds of it, Gorges should again get an increased amount of res (such as 1.04) If the building cost remains as high as it is now (15+) then it's going to be very difficult to get chambers. The res tower cost may help compensate for the loss of sucking... hopefully. We shall see!!

SentrySteve · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BreakfastSausages @ May 30 2003, 09:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> if gorges can't suck, and they only get an equal share of the resources how will anything ever get built?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Everything costs alot less. Alien RTs are now 10 Res... the cost for everything has been decreased.

Jasper · May 2003

I would like to see sucking like this. The gorge acts as a temporary res tower, when the he sucks, he brings in res just like a normal res tower only a little slower. Since the res are distributed to the whole team, and the flow rate is a little slower them if he capped the nozzle; it would promote capping of nozzles, and slow the aliens down.

Racer1 · May 2003

Ya, Jasper, I agree. But all of us n00bs without PT or dev access to the 1.1 betas don't have the full story. There must be some horrible problem cropping up in the beta test games that the devs just can't get around. Hopefully, one of the higher-ups will give a more detailed explanation besides "not sure it could work" - if only to placate our curiosity.

Frogg2 · May 2003

Actually Alien rts are now 15 we did a game today and we were able to get literally 7 rts in the 1st minute of the game (start with 25, gorge is 15 rt 10)

Onos was also raised to 100 :o

Racer1 · May 2003

Interesting Frogg2.
I can just hear it now...the first week after 1.1 is released..."darnit NSPlayer!!! Go gorge and drop a **** res tower!"
Heh, how the tides have turned.

Talesin · May 2003

Sadly, with suckling gone and RTs having half the health, even with everyone Gorging at the start of game and dropping an RT, it's painfully easy for Marines to RP-starve the Alien team. And once all the RTs are down, NO ONE gets RP except by killing. There's no recourse, and Marines ElecRTs are almost impossible to take down without risking a fatteh to go heal, and try not to die while healspraying the living **** out of their Skulk buddy. And that's IF a Marine doesn't come along, which is very likely.

Infected_Marine · May 2003

That sounds very depressing, especially since aliens always had a hard time 1.04...

dr_d · May 2003

Bah I stick to my story that all this reducing building costs and reducing health is just going to lead to massive shotgun and hmg rushes.

Necro · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ May 31 2003, 11:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Bah I stick to my story that all this reducing building costs and reducing health is just going to lead to massive shotgun and hmg rushes.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
more like shotgun and gl :\

Talesin · May 2003

Or just shotgun and shotgun. And shotgun. With a shotgun on top, and a built-in shotgun firing littler shotguns which in turn fire even littler shotguns which proceed to **** *** ** *** *** repeatedly.

The GLs only come in later after all the resource nodes have been taken over, capped and electrified. But at that point you might as well bring in the Viking Chorus.

SinSpawn · May 2003

With everything being lowered I.E HP for alien structures and GL having their damage increased, I will expect the alien chambers to poof within seconds....

GL does over 200 dmg per gl shot and the new offense chamber will have 1400 hp hmm how does this add up 6-7 gl shots will take down the chamber...this seems a while to tkae down...but during ingame it takes very little time to do..remember in 1.04...I still remember how the gls could wipe out a WoL with a few rounds with backed up Def chambers...say bye bye WoL

Talesin · June 2003

Actually, GLs do double damage against structures (and have had their base damage bumped to the old values). So that's only four grenades to take out a WoL, given the amount of splash damage that grenades do. Pretty good, considering that WoL cost well over 150RP to build, if it's a v1.04 style one.

MrSNEAKY · June 2003

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> From the costs of alot of alien buildings being low I think that could be a strongpoint for the aliens my explaination

As I read the alien res is 10 ok so a gorg could putup a movement tower first (if team agrees) then the gorge could get celerity for fast movement while the gorge is waddling around the res's are going up and when he/she gets to a node the res can be putup,then move onto the next one.

This could possibly overthrow the rines fast if ya got a fast gorge and a good skulk or whatever team to pull it off.

Talesin · June 2003

We've tried one better... since (in the latest build) you can go Gorge and drop an RT in the starting points you get, we all rushed out and capped a node apiece.
We didn't even get the RP back for Gorging and dropping the node before we were at *zero* RTs, having had a rambo wander into our hive and kill the tower. So everyone was stuck as a Skulk with no RP coming in except through a paltry few kills, which go to the individual Skulk. No one even got the RP to go Gorge, much less drop an RT, before we had HA/HMG/GL knocking on our door. Whereas the Marines' one-shot wonder, the shotgun, easily paid for itself for each one dropped.

cr3am · June 2003

Maybe if it just doubled the res flow instead of having a set number? That way if it goes super fast, the aliens already have a lot of res, and if it goes slow, then it's doing it's job. Thoughts?

SoBe_Dragon · June 2003

bring back resource recycling...problem solved <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Demonmerc · June 2003

I don't see why everything got changed around. Sucking was only bad when people abused it, I don't see why you have to change res costs & structure hp around the board... If a gorge simply had a SEPARATE CONTAINER for these res (its belly) as opposed to the magical place alien res is stored, the size of said container would be limited to a relatively small amount of res. Why not even smaller than the cheapest structure? And make OC the cheapest structure.

This way, sucking really helps the gorge because the sucked res would always be spent first. If the aliens want to lame out and all go gorge they would still be forced to wait and suck, defenseless, to build a single structure and then have no res, at least not enough to do more than build an OC or go skulk. Notice I haven't said anything about the rate of sucking, maybe it takes 30 seconds to get 10 res, ensuring that a marine scout party will find some of the suckers.

It was a good idea that simply needed to be capped in a big way. It should exist IMO, to reduce the time a gorge has to wait for res, instead of lowering the price. This way, a gorge can build structures in the area of a res node relatively quickly, but beyond that its a max bonus of 10 res, less than the cost to go gorge.

Sucking Gone?

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