The Ns V1.1 Info On Cloaked Hives Etc.

MrSNEAKY · June 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">may not be a good idea lol</div> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> Not trying to sound mean or anything but releasing some of this info might be bad if everyone or jsut about everyone knows this info they might disregard it and shoot at a placeholder hive assuming it's what it looks like unbuilt jsut sitting there waiting to be built.Rines could voice com to their commander "hey we got a live hive here let's seige it". that could be a unbalance thing there or something.Like the one guy said "if it goes "OUCH" let's seige it.may be abit a partial downfall to the aliens giving the rines a big advantage if they are smart.

ANeM · June 2003

I think its mentioned in the 1.1j change log somewhere that inactive hives no longer draw for marines.. Which I think means that if there isn't a hive there, the is no place holder, If there is a cloaked hive, there is no placeholder. If there is a normal hive, Why would there be a placeholder?
THAT IS ALL

Macguyvok · June 2003

Right... and I like those changes.. but I think it'll be common for 'rines to memorize where the hive is, and shoot there, to see if it "goes ouch" then a scan, and a seige.... but then again.. comm can hear alien hives ne way, so I doubt there's a real ballance issue....

Zel · June 2003

lol id like to see them set up camp, only to be surrounded by spawning skulks.

Macguyvok · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Jun 2 2003, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>lol id like to see them set up camp, only to be surrounded by spawning skulks.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
OH YEAH!

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'> : "Yeah, we'll take this hive, lock'em down!"
<Suddenly>
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> : "<Chuckle> <CHOMP!>"
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'> : "OMG! Mommy!" <Dies>

I_of_The_Everlasting · June 2003

Here's an issue - hives now spawn skulks surrounded by umbra, thus somewhat defeating the purpose of a cloaked hive.

Shrike3O · June 2003

I think the point of the hive being cloaked is to hide it while it's going up, more than to hide it when it's already up. The constant stream of spawning skulks would normally tip off any aware marine that there might be a hive in that area.

KRagg · June 2003

Wouldn't the skulks be cloaked when they spawn? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

BedwettingType · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrSNEAKY @ Jun 4 2003, 12:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Like the one guy said "if it goes "OUCH" let's seige it.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
...Thus alerting every alien in the map to your presence. If I shot a hive and heard "OUCH", I would either keep shooting it or run like hell. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>

Align · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BedwettingType @ Jun 3 2003, 07:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrSNEAKY @ Jun 4 2003, 12:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Like the one guy said "if it goes "OUCH" let's seige it. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
...Thus alerting every alien in the map to your presence. If I shot a hive and heard "OUCH", I would either keep shooting it or run like hell. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Most likely they already know you're there though...

Ahnteis · June 2003

why send a marine to look at it? Why not just have comm scan the 3 known hive locations?

If skulks are spawning around you, it's pretty obvious there's a hive there. Whether you can see it or not. However, IIRC a cloaked hive means you'll have to scan rather then just have marine spotters for siege to work.

Talesin · June 2003

I believe the listen bug is going to be removed (though I can't confirm if it has yet or not), but I can see one reason that the cloaked Hives would be useful.

New maps.

There are quite a few in testing right now, and a lot of them can be pretty confusing... it'd be easy to miss a turn to hit the Hive, if you haven't been there before. Or in the case of a few hiverooms, to walk through them without ever knowing you just came within touch-distance of a Hive.

I'd think that allowing a slight amount of randomization as to the Hive location in a given room would help things as well.. at that point you really can't memorize only one spot, you have to go check 'em all, even after you've been playing on the map for a long time. I mean... imagine if Refinery had a cloaked hive in it, but there were seven spawn points for it SOMEWHERE in that giant room. Only one would be active (and buildable) by the Gorge, randomly selected at the beginning of each round. Marines come tromping in and fire at the spot near the back where it is now, get no blood, but take down a few Skulks who're hanging around. They continue on, completely missing the active Hive in there, if their Comm didn't bother to sensor sweep.

MercsDragon · June 2003

it will be very useful in pubs. so many noob commanders

Twex · June 2003

It doesn't matter if hives show outlines or not. Since the hive locations are fixed, Marines will simply shoot at that location.

The whole idea of cloaking hives is pointless.

Shockeh · June 2003

The BETTER reason to have Sens chambers near a hive is to prevent spawncamp.

Because those aliens will spawn directly INTO a cloak...... makes it a BIT harder to kill those umbra'd, cloaked skulks eh little LMG boy?

Nemesis_Zero · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Twex @ Jun 3 2003, 09:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It doesn't matter if hives show outlines or not. Since the hive locations are fixed, Marines will simply shoot at that location.

The whole idea of cloaking hives is pointless.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
In what framework? What kind of tactic do you propose? Parting your team in three, running into the hives, and wasting ammo on thin air just to get mauled by the concentrated alien force in one hive?

Yes, it's possible for marines to distinguish a cloaked hiveroom they're in from an empty hive. A casual glance on a cloaked hive in building which you deem secured will however not reveal anything.

DarkFrost · June 2003

lol 2 hive lock down but there is a sensory chamber close enough to cloak the hive and allow a gorge in while cloaked... rofl sieges wont fire at what they cant see, and if the MT dot on hives isnt there anymore because of the cloak, noone will be any the wiser.... paranoid comms will be scanning "their" hives constantly LOL

Bogglesteinsky · June 2003

i think that (between all the exclamations of laughter) you were trying to say that a two hive lock dwon where there happens to be a sensory chamber in one of them, a gorge could wander in cloaked and put up the hive without the anybody realising.

this would depend on a few things

1: sensory chambers have enough cloaking range to hide a creature from a considerble distance

2: the comm didnt try to place anything on the chamber

3: a marine doesnt try to walk though the chamber and wonder why he cant

4: motion tracking - could the gorge get close enough without being seen by some marine?

napi · June 2003

am i right in assuming that a single sensory chamber cloaks itself?

lolfighter · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shanks @ Jun 3 2003, 01:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> am i right in assuming that a single sensory chamber cloaks itself?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
THAT would actually be an interesting question. We know that a DC doesn't heal itself, but two DCs heal each other, is it the same way with SCs?

Talesin · June 2003

SCs cloak themselves and an area around them. But if a Marine touches a chamber, it de-cloaks. I'm not sure though if it just decloaks itself, everything it was covering (in the case of the SC itself) or everything cloaked in the area (in the case of something other than the SC).

Nemesis_Zero · June 2003

Just itself.

Macguyvok · June 2003

I get a feeling we're missing the point a tad. Sensories aren't designed to cloak the hive, they are designed to cloak players, and buildings, plus the hive. Sure, I know that there's a hive in there... but what I might not know is that they've got 3 oni guarding it, or a slew of OC's.... or maybe some uber skulks. Cloaking gives aliens an advantage because it denies marines information about the battle field...which is critical. Sure, they can scanner sweep, and find out... but they'll have to scanner spam (which is being ballanced so it's difficult, and needs alot of rez for obs) to know what's going on constantly. Also, a good alien team might be able to hid some players/structures in parts of the room the comm can's see, but then again, they've always been able to do that, cloak and scanner sweep or not.

Hida_Tsuzua · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (z.x. bogglestiensky @ Jun 3 2003, 10:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>there happens to be a sensory chamber in one of them, a gorge could wander in cloaked and put up the hive without the anybody realising.

this would depend on a few things

1: sensory chambers have enough cloaking range to hide a creature from a considerble distance

2: the comm didnt try to place anything on the chamber

3: a marine doesnt try to walk though the chamber and wonder why he cant

4: motion tracking - could the gorge get close enough without being seen by some marine?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I will have to say that this is a valid if risky tactic. While playing Tanith in a hard fought game, the marines finally got the upperhand and were killing hives. I was a weakling LMG marine in Sat Com told by the commander to guard it (we relocated there). Bored I took a few shots here and there, hitting where the hive would be while it suddenly uncloaked. I called "there's a hive here" and started to empty my LMG into it. If I wasn't shooting randomly, the aliens would have be able to spawn into the weakly defended marine base.

Jabba_The_Hunt · June 2003

I think cloaked hives might be useful once or twice but anymore and it will be over-powerful, remember hives arent the game winners they once were.

Personally I like the idea of sensory being used for the skulks to surprise marines, can u imagine a sensory built near a marine base the aliens could attack the base without the marines knowing where they were. The comm would either have to scan or the marines fire randomly, just total chaos.

I think sensories biggest use will be in protecting gorges near marine outposts (or hives that are going up)

Then in assaults like i've just mentioned,

then protecting fully built hives.

btw have the playtesters tried assaulting a marine base with a sensory near by, does it work well?

Pulse · June 2003

All of you are forgetting that the observatory decloaks everything in its range.

Thansal · June 2003

yes, but that is an obs at every hive then <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

you can set up a cloaked out post near to the marine outpost with out being within obs range

also b/c SC cloak disabls MT in its area you have another big tool

the one thing I am now thinking of is a silenced gorge making a SC push

Drop the SC build it up and then start building SCs at the edge of the last ones cloake range <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

slowly push into the marine held hive, then buiild the hive <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> (This could work on hives where there are areas that are rarly traveled)

Align · June 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thansal @ Jun 3 2003, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> yes, but that is an obs at every hive then <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
You might see that anyway. "Observatories use 'charges' now instead of res, so multiple obs are viable."

Thansal · June 2003

true, forgot about that

interesting idea

Amped1 · June 2003

1.04 - "Comm, pg and tfac here"

1.1 - "Comm, pg, tfac, and obs here"

Dread · June 2003

What if more sensories would have more effect on hive? Like several movement and several defence chambers do. For example with 3 sensories, maybe the hive wouldn't uncloak with scanner sweeps and marines shooting at it would be required?

Just a thought.

The Ns V1.1 Info On Cloaked Hives Etc.

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