1.1 Bile Bomb Vs. Siege Rush
Cowswin
Join Date: 2003-03-17 Member: 14623Banned, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Strats, suggestions, opinions</div> Looks like there's a bit of comment on the current state of the bilebomb in 1.1. Now right off the bat, I considered the bile bomb trajectory to be easily exploitable. You don't have to be a PT or a vet to figure out that a ranged structure eliminating weapon could be "abused" so to speak. Firing it from a hundred yards away at marine turrets which couldn't even fire back.
If you think about it for a moment, sounds a lot like a siege doesn't it? Well, as for gameplay wise, it still won't fit (personally I don't think the siege fits at all but that's another story). There was a newbie tactic, not commonly used on servers which I dubbed siege rushing. It's where the marine would build TF, phase, 4 turrets and siege as forward bases. Alien structures were decimated along with any chance of defenses. I say it was a newbie tactic because you don't get half the upgrades normal clan users would get out of "neccesity". Anyhow, the current gorge rush is just the same tactic turned around on them, don't like that "siege" weapon (bilebomb) now do ya rines? Now you know how aliens feel when they have their last hive being whittled down to nothing while they sit helplessly waiting for the end to come.
As much as I'd like to see them squirm from my forward gorge tactics (which it seems were used in some PTing the last couple nights <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ) I'll have to throw in some suggestions (yes, *gasp* suggestions for a game I'm not playing yet) for possible alterations to the current weapon of choice.
<ul>
<li>Decrease range - As far as I remember the fade bilebomb still had a limited range, mainly because of the arc. However, you could change it so that it's like parasite and only travels so far before exploding. This would get rid of the "sniper" gorge. It would of course have to be balanced for gameplay. I can think of a couple hives where the range would need to be quite long in order to be effective at all of course that's partially just bad map design (*cough* silo *cough*) because of nearly inaccesible areas.
<li>Turn arc lower - This could go along with a decreased range however if the arc is set correctly it won't be needed and you could still bomb marine bases from above without much penalty while bombing them from a lower platform would prove ineffective.
<li>Weaker gorges - Now I'm all for realism and such (gorges are fat, they develop more armor, blah, blah, blah), but gameplay wise, it seems to me the gorge should be a weak builder. Think of the way Warcraft did it, weak peons, strong grunts. My opinion is that if this is done, the skulks and lerks should have a slightly increased health/armor to make up for the gorges lack thereof. Would also solve the Lerk being too weak and balancing it off on another class.
</ul>
Just a short list to show some possible playtesting suggestions/fixes. A small amount of tactics questions as well...
<ul>
<li>If the alien team gorge rushed, have you thought about siege rushing back? Requires a lot of resources and prevents you from teching up real hard but it could eliminate enough resources so that they cannot save for onos/fade. Just think they all wasted X amount of res to go gorge and build all those structures and now have nothing saved up for evolving again for quite a while. Meanwhile after you pushed back the initial rush you could then begin you tech up.
<li>Immediately tech to nade launchers. A little birdy told me they have a fast fire rate, and reloading from armory still reloads into the actual marine clip itself if the ammo hold is full. Spam away.
<li>Phase gate/relocate from your base. If you're sure they're rushing or they're going to beat you down relocate, a very common tactic from the days of old. If you want them to believe you're staying in base while you really relocate elsewere build some useless low res structure or two and have a marine or two continue attacking while the rest of the team goes elsewhere. If you're not POSITIVE they're going to take you over, a siege in your base should do just fine and sending a marine party out to make another "outpost" base with a phase gate would probably be ideal. I haven't heard anyone complaining yet about overpowered skulkitudes!
</ul>
If you think about it for a moment, sounds a lot like a siege doesn't it? Well, as for gameplay wise, it still won't fit (personally I don't think the siege fits at all but that's another story). There was a newbie tactic, not commonly used on servers which I dubbed siege rushing. It's where the marine would build TF, phase, 4 turrets and siege as forward bases. Alien structures were decimated along with any chance of defenses. I say it was a newbie tactic because you don't get half the upgrades normal clan users would get out of "neccesity". Anyhow, the current gorge rush is just the same tactic turned around on them, don't like that "siege" weapon (bilebomb) now do ya rines? Now you know how aliens feel when they have their last hive being whittled down to nothing while they sit helplessly waiting for the end to come.
As much as I'd like to see them squirm from my forward gorge tactics (which it seems were used in some PTing the last couple nights <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ) I'll have to throw in some suggestions (yes, *gasp* suggestions for a game I'm not playing yet) for possible alterations to the current weapon of choice.
<ul>
<li>Decrease range - As far as I remember the fade bilebomb still had a limited range, mainly because of the arc. However, you could change it so that it's like parasite and only travels so far before exploding. This would get rid of the "sniper" gorge. It would of course have to be balanced for gameplay. I can think of a couple hives where the range would need to be quite long in order to be effective at all of course that's partially just bad map design (*cough* silo *cough*) because of nearly inaccesible areas.
<li>Turn arc lower - This could go along with a decreased range however if the arc is set correctly it won't be needed and you could still bomb marine bases from above without much penalty while bombing them from a lower platform would prove ineffective.
<li>Weaker gorges - Now I'm all for realism and such (gorges are fat, they develop more armor, blah, blah, blah), but gameplay wise, it seems to me the gorge should be a weak builder. Think of the way Warcraft did it, weak peons, strong grunts. My opinion is that if this is done, the skulks and lerks should have a slightly increased health/armor to make up for the gorges lack thereof. Would also solve the Lerk being too weak and balancing it off on another class.
</ul>
Just a short list to show some possible playtesting suggestions/fixes. A small amount of tactics questions as well...
<ul>
<li>If the alien team gorge rushed, have you thought about siege rushing back? Requires a lot of resources and prevents you from teching up real hard but it could eliminate enough resources so that they cannot save for onos/fade. Just think they all wasted X amount of res to go gorge and build all those structures and now have nothing saved up for evolving again for quite a while. Meanwhile after you pushed back the initial rush you could then begin you tech up.
<li>Immediately tech to nade launchers. A little birdy told me they have a fast fire rate, and reloading from armory still reloads into the actual marine clip itself if the ammo hold is full. Spam away.
<li>Phase gate/relocate from your base. If you're sure they're rushing or they're going to beat you down relocate, a very common tactic from the days of old. If you want them to believe you're staying in base while you really relocate elsewere build some useless low res structure or two and have a marine or two continue attacking while the rest of the team goes elsewhere. If you're not POSITIVE they're going to take you over, a siege in your base should do just fine and sending a marine party out to make another "outpost" base with a phase gate would probably be ideal. I haven't heard anyone complaining yet about overpowered skulkitudes!
</ul>
Comments
Question 2: I don't know how the angle is currently, but i've been thinking about something. This projectile is being launched by a creature about a foot or so above the ground. how much distance can it get? Why not redefine things thus: The farther a gorge's head is angled, *and thus the farther the range* the slower the rate of fire? That way, a gorge in turret range can get them off at say the current rate of fire, yet if he wants to "snipe" he can only get them of at about 1/3 *in his max range*
Anyone know if the gorge moving backwards slightly when he fires the bilebomb has been implemented?, cause I think that would add a really nice effect to what looks like a great weapon.
Huh? In 1.1 BBombs don't have any range restrictions, it's like acid rocket, only, it doesn't hurt marines and hurts buildings all the more.