<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Jun 9 2003, 07:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Jun 9 2003, 07:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Salty+Jun 9 2003, 07:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Salty @ Jun 9 2003, 07:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Jun 9 2003, 04:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Jun 9 2003, 04:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And anyones disputing my urges to murder these greedy corporate types? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I do, you wouldn't have the game in the 1st place otherwise.
As far as the actual making of the game you have to include hours that you pay the programmers, and the ammount you pay them is actually alot less then what it costs to have them for instance you have to pay insurance, unemployment, HMO if they have it, managment for the team, supplies, space exc. Not only do you have to pay the time for what actually what went into the game but what didn't, if they spend alot of time making something they thought was cool and it sucks well you have to pay for that too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> From interviews and so on i've read of game developers, every single one says the best thing about programming games is playing the finished product and seeing your dreams become a reality. Is this actually a real thing or is it some sort of BS they're just making up to make them appear better?
Through what i do i can say i'd rather work minimum wage and do something fantastic i can be proud of rather than making a shedload of money and looking like that's all i care about. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You say that now, but when your waking up at 5:00 am on a monday the money sure as hell helps. Plus its not like the maganagment is just like we will pay your this much because we say so. They are competeting with other managers. Somebody is hiring programers for X amount of money your going to have to be pay greater salaries or have some perks if you want the better programers. They probably choose programing because they enjoy it over working at another job. If it wasnt for money I would quit studying engineering and become a fisherman or something. It dosent mean I can't enjoy my work.
Still people do it for free hence mods. If you want to work for minimum wage and make a huge diffrence nobody is stoping you. Thats not exactly everybody though.
Traditional RPG pwn all Shadow run and D&D forever <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I could argue in favor of CEO pay being fair for their workload and amount of experience, time in field and education but I don't think that would win you over. Instead, I choose to concentrate on the gameplay itself, which is the main reason people play games.
When you buy a multiplayer game you expect to get the game and perhaps some patches to fix a couple bugs in the game later on but no real expansion of the game (i.e. new classes, races, weapons, whatever). Some people who have time on their hands take parts of the source code sometimes and make mods. They are not really large changes in the game or gameplay normally, just a change in models, weapons or perhaps a new type of way to play the game (ala capture the flag). In general mods are free, because they are made with minimal equipment, do not host their own servers and provide no insurance to the customer that the game will even work for them. They do not market their game by normal means nor do they pack it up in a pretty box and put it on a shelf for people to take freely. They usually spread their game through free online sites and mirrored downloads. The game may have modifications done to it which seem like "big changes" but in reality they're never straying too far from the original code, it's all just smoke and mirrors to cover the old stuff.
When I pay my $12 a month for each of the three games I play, I'm paying for updates to my game, new changes, balances and connectivity for the extremely large servers I play on. Aside from IRC there's not many place you can chat with people from around the world, thousands of people at a time. Neverwinter Nights is the only other game that even comes close to any MMORPG that I can think of that's "free" but even then you're limited to a maximum number of players per server and the servers are not run by companies that gurantee uptime, good connection speed or playability of their mods. Think of it as taking your favorite game and fixing all those little bugs that you get annoyed at, I'm sure you'll find at least one bug you wish the developers fixed but instead eventually left their game for dead. When you can play a game for 5 years and switch computers 12 times and moved 3 times and still have the same great connection and the same character, that's a lot better than I can see with any other game.
Storyline advancement and actual addition to the game (i.e. new weapons, continents, etc) are also offered through most pay games. You get new things to play with every month, more quests to do and people to play with ALL the time. You can play on your favorite server no matter what time it is and there's a gurantee that people will be there to play with you. It's like (if you're old school like me) being able to play Dungeons & Dragons anytime you want because the DM/GM is there all the time.
I could argue to Doomsday but some people just don't think that's enough because some people offer their services (mods) for free, they think everything else should be. If someone wants to make a buck off their game so they can live off it, I support them 100%.
Now, to play the otherside for a moment, once you reach a certain number of subscribers you shouldn't do what Verant did and RAISE your price, you should lower it. Lowering it a couple bucks to maybe $8 instead of up to $12 would still generate enough money to cover all costs and generate more interest in the game. But what some of you were suggesting was to lower the price to the point where they would JUST cover costs and wages. A bit of extra profit never hurt anyone <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
I do, you wouldn't have the game in the 1st place otherwise.
As far as the actual making of the game you have to include hours that you pay the programmers, and the ammount you pay them is actually alot less then what it costs to have them for instance you have to pay insurance, unemployment, HMO if they have it, managment for the team, supplies, space exc. Not only do you have to pay the time for what actually what went into the game but what didn't, if they spend alot of time making something they thought was cool and it sucks well you have to pay for that too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From interviews and so on i've read of game developers, every single one says the best thing about programming games is playing the finished product and seeing your dreams become a reality. Is this actually a real thing or is it some sort of BS they're just making up to make them appear better?
Through what i do i can say i'd rather work minimum wage and do something fantastic i can be proud of rather than making a shedload of money and looking like that's all i care about. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You say that now, but when your waking up at 5:00 am on a monday the money sure as hell helps. Plus its not like the maganagment is just like we will pay your this much because we say so. They are competeting with other managers. Somebody is hiring programers for X amount of money your going to have to be pay greater salaries or have some perks if you want the better programers. They probably choose programing because they enjoy it over working at another job. If it wasnt for money I would quit studying engineering and become a fisherman or something. It dosent mean I can't enjoy my work.
Still people do it for free hence mods. If you want to work for minimum wage and make a huge diffrence nobody is stoping you. Thats not exactly everybody though.
Shadow run and D&D forever <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
When you buy a multiplayer game you expect to get the game and perhaps some patches to fix a couple bugs in the game later on but no real expansion of the game (i.e. new classes, races, weapons, whatever). Some people who have time on their hands take parts of the source code sometimes and make mods. They are not really large changes in the game or gameplay normally, just a change in models, weapons or perhaps a new type of way to play the game (ala capture the flag). In general mods are free, because they are made with minimal equipment, do not host their own servers and provide no insurance to the customer that the game will even work for them. They do not market their game by normal means nor do they pack it up in a pretty box and put it on a shelf for people to take freely. They usually spread their game through free online sites and mirrored downloads. The game may have modifications done to it which seem like "big changes" but in reality they're never straying too far from the original code, it's all just smoke and mirrors to cover the old stuff.
When I pay my $12 a month for each of the three games I play, I'm paying for updates to my game, new changes, balances and connectivity for the extremely large servers I play on. Aside from IRC there's not many place you can chat with people from around the world, thousands of people at a time. Neverwinter Nights is the only other game that even comes close to any MMORPG that I can think of that's "free" but even then you're limited to a maximum number of players per server and the servers are not run by companies that gurantee uptime, good connection speed or playability of their mods. Think of it as taking your favorite game and fixing all those little bugs that you get annoyed at, I'm sure you'll find at least one bug you wish the developers fixed but instead eventually left their game for dead. When you can play a game for 5 years and switch computers 12 times and moved 3 times and still have the same great connection and the same character, that's a lot better than I can see with any other game.
Storyline advancement and actual addition to the game (i.e. new weapons, continents, etc) are also offered through most pay games. You get new things to play with every month, more quests to do and people to play with ALL the time. You can play on your favorite server no matter what time it is and there's a gurantee that people will be there to play with you. It's like (if you're old school like me) being able to play Dungeons & Dragons anytime you want because the DM/GM is there all the time.
I could argue to Doomsday but some people just don't think that's enough because some people offer their services (mods) for free, they think everything else should be. If someone wants to make a buck off their game so they can live off it, I support them 100%.
Now, to play the otherside for a moment, once you reach a certain number of subscribers you shouldn't do what Verant did and RAISE your price, you should lower it. Lowering it a couple bucks to maybe $8 instead of up to $12 would still generate enough money to cover all costs and generate more interest in the game. But what some of you were suggesting was to lower the price to the point where they would JUST cover costs and wages. A bit of extra profit never hurt anyone <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->