<!--QuoteBegin--lolfighter+Jun 9 2003, 09:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Jun 9 2003, 09:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Since the universe is infinite, there is no outside to be anything in. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You can't prove something's infinate, you can only prove if something is finite.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sirus+Jun 9 2003, 09:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Jun 9 2003, 09:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People lack the ability to understand infinity.
For the most part, people think that it can't exist because they've seen no proof. Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't say it didn't exist, and i do believe in infinity. It's just stating something is infinate, without being able to prove otherwise just doesn't hold water to me.
But then, if i could calculate infinity i'd probably be rich.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
Ah, it could exist, or it could not, when you think of molecules and everything smaller than them you've gotta remember that it can't go on forever... But everything has to be made of something... One of them is true, but theres no way of knowing which, but if there is anything outside the universe I would bet good money that it was another universe.
<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Jun 9 2003, 12:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Jun 9 2003, 12:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I didn't say it didn't exist, and i do believe in infinity. It's just stating something is infinate, without being able to prove otherwise just doesn't hold water to me.
But then, if i could calculate infinity i'd probably be rich. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you could calculate infinity, you'd probably be dead.
I can't remember the exact term for it, but a person can die of shock once they can no longer comprehend the height/width/depth of their surroundings. This also applies to our place in the universe - a person could die of shock from truly realizing how small and insignificant they are in relation to the rest of the universe.
I don't quite believe that theory, but figured it'd be worth a mention. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
edited June 2003
Well... As of right now we can't really "look" so there is no proof either way. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--SiLeNcEr-7+Jun 9 2003, 10:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SiLeNcEr-7 @ Jun 9 2003, 10:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well... As of right now we can't really "look" so there is no proof either way. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly, so i'm just saying, given the theory that the universe is finite (since it's a theory it's finite and a theory otherwise), in pure speculation, is there nothingness out there? Is there another, larger universe?
Bwahahahaha, this is all a cunning plot to murder you all by making you try to comprehend infinity.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
edited June 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--lolfighter+Jun 9 2003, 09:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Jun 9 2003, 09:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Since the universe is infinite, there is no outside to be anything in. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is proven that the universe is expanding. people have not proven that its expanding into something but things are moving farther apart.
If you took a half filled balloon put 2 dots on it and then blew more air into the balloon, you could see the dots grow farther apart. At least thats how the astronomy magazine shows it lol.
ANyway, there are some other theories that while the universe is infinite there is a zone (like trillions of billions light years away, you gt the point) where there is nothing there. As in more star systems, or other galaxies. Just emptyness. Its really hard to explain. ANd im not gonna retype the 7 page article here lol.
People also say that there are 2 "sides" the universe as we know it and then one of abosolute nothingness. After a certain amount of time. So extremely large we would coniserite to be infinite by even our scientifical standards, the universe simple dies and then forces its way into the emptyness and everythging restarts. I dont know about this one but since no one can prove it either way I wont outright say its bs.
Also on time itself. Infinite may not be forever at all.
We can idealise infinite but however if time is infinite then our entire existence and everything that we are aware that came before us is nothing in the span of time. Now consider the creation of our entire milkyway galaxy. And everything from before that.
Lets say for example it took 9 to the 9th to the 9th power in years. Then that number times itself 9billion more times. That number so sooooo huge it would take (lets jsut say its more then astornomically huge.
However its so large we call that infinite b/c we are trying to understand something from our point of view, (we been around for nothing in the time of space) We would think that number is infinite, However the entire thing might have started right after that number thus making inifinite not seem so infinite at all by some creation and ending theories and raising the question. Since you can only meuasre nothing with a value as 0. Does that mean if there was nothng before the beginning was there still time? ANd how can you meaasure 0 time. But thats for a new topic.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Jun 9 2003, 02:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Jun 9 2003, 02:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Sirus+Jun 9 2003, 09:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Jun 9 2003, 09:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> People lack the ability to understand infinity.
For the most part, people think that it can't exist because they've seen no proof. Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't say it didn't exist, and i do believe in infinity. It's just stating something is infinate, without being able to prove otherwise just doesn't hold water to me.
But then, if i could calculate infinity i'd probably be rich. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Something is proved infinite if it cannot be proved finite. So there.
If you mean "the known universe" then yeah I guess there is stuff outside there but if you mean universe then no. If there is a galaxy we find outside the universe its then considered part of the universe.
Also we don't live a 3 dimensional world really. Only we persieve it because electromagnetic forces and gravity work in 3 dimensions most of the time. Those are the forces we percieve. Nuclear forces which are 10-dimensional forces disipate so quickly that you don't notice them outside of an atom even thought the strong nuclear force is the strongest force. This is where that string theory comes in and im not about to get into that today.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't remember the exact term for it, but a person can die of shock once they can no longer comprehend the height/width/depth of their surroundings. This also applies to our place in the universe - a person could die of shock from truly realizing how small and insignificant they are in relation to the rest of the universe.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I could be wrong, but you might be inadvertantly channeling the Hithhiker's Guide here:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Total Perspective Vortex derives its picture of the whole Universe on the principle of extrapolated matter analyses.
To explain - since every piece of matter in the Universe is in some way affected by every other piece of matter in the Universe, it is in theory possible to extrapolate the whole of creation - every sun, every planet, their orbits, their composition and their economic and social history from, say, one small piece of fairy cake.
The man who invented the Total Perspective Vortex did so basically in order to annoy his wife.
Trin Tragula - for that was his name - was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher or, as his wife would have it, an idiot.
And she would nag him incessantly about the utterly inordinate amount of time he spent staring out into space, or mulling over the mechanics of safety pins, or doing spectrographic analyses of pieces of fairy cake.
''Have some sense of proportion!'' she would say, sometimes as often as thirty-eight times in a single day.
And so he built the Total Perspective Vortex - just to show her.
And into one end he plugged the whole of reality as extrapolated from a piece of fairy cake, and into the other end he plugged his wife: so that when he turned it on she saw in one instant the whole infinity of creation and herself in relation to it.
To Trin Tragula's horror, the shock completely annihilated her brain; but to his satisfaction he realized that he had proved conclusively that if life is going to exist in a Universe of this size, then the one thing it cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go to the library. Pick up a copy of "The Age of Spiritual Machines". Feel yourself being enlightened.
It explains some things such as how the universe is expanding and contracting. How time is speeding up, and the IQ of evolution. You should also read this article.
read the whole thing! It just opens your eyes like, whoa.
Peace, in the middle east <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Agent Orange, good book <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Other than that, if you could comprehend true infinity you'd probably lose perspective over reality and cause the whole damn thing to crash down on the universe and it'd collapse into a giant vortex and then explode into a new universe. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
<!--QuoteBegin--@gentOrange+Jun 9 2003, 01:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (@gentOrange @ Jun 9 2003, 01:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Go to the library. Pick up a copy of "The Age of Spiritual Machines". Feel yourself being enlightened.
It explains some things such as how the universe is expanding and contracting. How time is speeding up, and the IQ of evolution. You should also read this article.
read the whole thing! It just opens your eyes like, whoa.
Peace, in the middle east <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Here is a response that reading from one if its forum goers.
Ray's article borrowed his explanation of time from other sources, but it makes the same mistakes of language usage that so many others make. He speaks of time speeding up and slowing down. Time, being a measurement, can't do either. It's the things time measures that change at a more rapid pace.
A human body is a time-measuring machine. We compare the passage of events with one another and label them comparatively fast or slow. For a child, a day seems to drag on forever. For an old man, the days pass so quickly he wonders where they went. Since they live on the same planet and deal with the same changes in their environments, why are their perceptions so different?
For a two-year-old child, a year represents half of its life. So waiting for another birthday is like anticipating an event half a lifetime away. For a 70-year-old old man, a year is only one 70th of a lifetime away. His mind is crowded with 70 years of events perceived and thousands upon thousands of things accomplished. He doesn't have enough hours in the day or enough days left in his life to deal with all that's on his plate. So time seems to fly.
But in objective terms, the days come and go at the same rate they always did. It's just the machine (body) perceiving them that notices a difference. A mechanical clock gives us a more objective comparison because it isn't as strongly influenced by its environment.
Our perception is due, in part, to complexity. An old man's memory is crowded with events and perceptions that make the process of comparing them complex. Much more so than the mind of a child, who has relatively fewer events in his life and fewer ways of making comparisons. So for the child, the days drag by and for the old man, they fly.
The evolution of man is also increasing in complexity and thus seems to mankind to be moving at a faster pace. The collection of tools we call culture is increasing exponentially as a larger number of people are making use of the tools already invented to create new ones. Like the old man, the number of memes we have to deal with on a daily basis is what is growing exponentially. Interconnections between the people who make up our species are also growing in complexity. So the memes we have to deal with not only accumulate more quickly but are also passed among the population at a faster rate.
The result is the impression of our universe moving faster, much as a person looking out the window of his car guages his speed by the rate at which he encounters telephone poles or trees flashing by. But that's the nature of the perceiver, not the nature of the countryside he is perceiving.
This is why we have to differentiate between the measurement we call time and the things we are using it to measure. A measurement is a tool we use to create a map, if only in our minds. We constantly compare the universe we travel through to the map we've made of it. But we have to keep in mind that the map is a work in progress and will never be a complete description of the territory we created it to guide us through. And because we live in a dynamic universe, the parts of the map we first created may no longer resemble some parts of the territory it describes.
What time measures are the changes in our universe. The more and greater the changes we encounter, the faster our universe seems to go.
AllUrHiveRblong2usBy Your Powers Combined...Join Date: 2002-12-20Member: 11244Members
The univers is not "infinite" in the traditional sense, because if one began to travel in a straight line, one would eventually reach one's starting point because all of the gravity from all of the matter in the universe bends space and time so that the universe is a self-contained sphere. There cannot be an "outside" to it because it never technically ends.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
<!--QuoteBegin--AllUrHiveRBelong2Us+Jun 9 2003, 02:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ Jun 9 2003, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The univers is not "infinite" in the traditional sense, because if one began to travel in a straight line, one would eventually reach one's starting point because all of the gravity from all of the matter in the universe bends space and time so that the universe is a self-contained sphere. There cannot be an "outside" to it because it never technically ends. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> However space is 3D so considering you can fly "through" the self contained sphere I wonder what is on that "edge." Maybe you cant.
my astronomy proffesor said that the universe is expanding (which has been proven) however there are no Boundaries . Sounds strange but that seems to the most popular idea at the moment.
this is the second topic in "off topic" that resembles the things we got in trouble for on the disscussion forum, lets not get the off topic forum locked as well ok?
AllUrHiveRblong2usBy Your Powers Combined...Join Date: 2002-12-20Member: 11244Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Cpl.Davis+Jun 9 2003, 02:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cpl.Davis @ Jun 9 2003, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> However space is 3D so considering you can fly "through" the self contained sphere I wonder what is on that "edge." Maybe you cant.
my astronomy proffesor said that the universe is expanding (which has been proven) however there are no Boundaries . Sounds strange but that seems to the most popular idea at the moment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, that's the point you CAN'T fly "through", that's just like saying if you kept walking straight you would eventually walk off the Earth. If you tried to fly to the end of the Universe, you would never be able to find a discernable point where the universe ends, you'd just keep going until you went in a complete circle. There can be nothing outside of this "sphere" of the universe, because anything trying to escape would run into the same problems you would.
The universe IS finite. We know this because of the existence of Quasars. They're the oldest celestial bodies in the universe and only exist at its edges. What's outside? Darkmatter, a.k.a., empty void.
AllUrHiveRblong2usBy Your Powers Combined...Join Date: 2002-12-20Member: 11244Members
This kind of thread is NOT what killed discussion. What killed discussion is people yelling random things such as "This is what killed discussion" for no reason.
<!--QuoteBegin--z.x. bogglestiensky+Jun 9 2003, 12:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (z.x. bogglestiensky @ Jun 9 2003, 12:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> btw, the dark matter or "empty void" is not empty. its filled with strawberry jam and large whales that speak spanish. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't forget the Swedish clowns that only speak Portugiese!
Wow... I go to work for 10 hours, and by the time I get back, the post I want to refer to is 15 posts back..... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
To quote BMonkey's post: "I could be wrong, but you might be inadvertantly channeling the Hithhiker's Guide here"
That was what I had going through my mind while I was typing up that post, actually. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> However, I'm positive I've read it in a reputable scientific source that "death by incomprehensible dimensions" is possible.
It's just very rare... probably because media has dumbed us all down to the point where many of us don't care what's outside our own little worlds. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Cpl.Davis+Jun 9 2003, 02:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cpl.Davis @ Jun 9 2003, 02:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--AllUrHiveRBelong2Us+Jun 9 2003, 02:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ Jun 9 2003, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The univers is not "infinite" in the traditional sense, because if one began to travel in a straight line, one would eventually reach one's starting point because all of the gravity from all of the matter in the universe bends space and time so that the universe is a self-contained sphere. There cannot be an "outside" to it because it never technically ends. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> However space is 3D so considering you can fly "through" the self contained sphere I wonder what is on that "edge." Maybe you cant.
my astronomy proffesor said that the universe is expanding (which has been proven) however there are no Boundaries . Sounds strange but that seems to the most popular idea at the moment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well its only 3D because we see it that way. So far we have theories that ther are 10 dimnsions were the strong nuclear force is explained. Though with 10 demnsions your energy is deluted quickly. For instant electromanatism works by every unit further away you go from the source its a square root smaller. Since the strong nuclear force is 10 dimensional you don't notice it. This is where the string thoery comes in where all matter and energy are just vibrations of string.
Comments
You can't prove something's infinate, you can only prove if something is finite.
For the most part, people think that it can't exist because they've seen no proof.
Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
;)
For the most part, people think that it can't exist because they've seen no proof.
Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say it didn't exist, and i do believe in infinity. It's just stating something is infinate, without being able to prove otherwise just doesn't hold water to me.
But then, if i could calculate infinity i'd probably be rich.
But then, if i could calculate infinity i'd probably be rich. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you could calculate infinity, you'd probably be dead.
I can't remember the exact term for it, but a person can die of shock once they can no longer comprehend the height/width/depth of their surroundings. This also applies to our place in the universe - a person could die of shock from truly realizing how small and insignificant they are in relation to the rest of the universe.
I don't quite believe that theory, but figured it'd be worth a mention. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
(:
And there is proof that the universe is infinite. You find an ending and I'll agree that its finite.
Exactly, so i'm just saying, given the theory that the universe is finite (since it's a theory it's finite and a theory otherwise), in pure speculation, is there nothingness out there? Is there another, larger universe?
Bwahahahaha, this is all a cunning plot to murder you all by making you try to comprehend infinity.
It is proven that the universe is expanding. people have not proven that its expanding into something but things are moving farther apart.
If you took a half filled balloon put 2 dots on it and then blew more air into the balloon, you could see the dots grow farther apart. At least thats how the astronomy magazine shows it lol.
ANyway, there are some other theories that while the universe is infinite there is a zone (like trillions of billions light years away, you gt the point) where there is nothing there. As in more star systems, or other galaxies. Just emptyness. Its really hard to explain. ANd im not gonna retype the 7 page article here lol.
People also say that there are 2 "sides" the universe as we know it and then one of abosolute nothingness. After a certain amount of time. So extremely large we would coniserite to be infinite by even our scientifical standards, the universe simple dies and then forces its way into the emptyness and everythging restarts. I dont know about this one but since no one can prove it either way I wont outright say its bs.
Also on time itself.
Infinite may not be forever at all.
We can idealise infinite but however if time is infinite then our entire existence and everything that we are aware that came before us is nothing in the span of time. Now consider the creation of our entire milkyway galaxy. And everything from before that.
Lets say for example it took 9 to the 9th to the 9th power in years. Then that number times itself 9billion
more times. That number so sooooo huge it would take (lets jsut say its more then astornomically huge.
However its so large we call that infinite b/c we are trying to understand something from our point of view, (we been around for nothing in the time of space) We would think that number is infinite, However the entire thing might have started right after that number thus making inifinite not seem so infinite at all by some creation and ending theories and raising the question. Since you can only meuasre nothing with a value as 0. Does that mean if there was nothng before the beginning was there still time? ANd how can you meaasure 0 time. But thats for a new topic.
For the most part, people think that it can't exist because they've seen no proof.
Just because you don't understand doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say it didn't exist, and i do believe in infinity. It's just stating something is infinate, without being able to prove otherwise just doesn't hold water to me.
But then, if i could calculate infinity i'd probably be rich. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Something is proved infinite if it cannot be proved finite. So there.
Just because you haven't proven it's finite, doesn't make it infinate.
Also we don't live a 3 dimensional world really. Only we persieve it because electromagnetic forces and gravity work in 3 dimensions most of the time. Those are the forces we percieve. Nuclear forces which are 10-dimensional forces disipate so quickly that you don't notice them outside of an atom even thought the strong nuclear force is the strongest force. This is where that string theory comes in and im not about to get into that today.
I could be wrong, but you might be inadvertantly channeling the Hithhiker's Guide here:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
The Total Perspective Vortex derives its picture of the whole
Universe on the principle of extrapolated matter analyses.
To explain - since every piece of matter in the Universe is in
some way affected by every other piece of matter in the Universe,
it is in theory possible to extrapolate the whole of creation -
every sun, every planet, their orbits, their composition and
their economic and social history from, say, one small piece of
fairy cake.
The man who invented the Total Perspective Vortex did so
basically in order to annoy his wife.
Trin Tragula - for that was his name - was a dreamer, a thinker,
a speculative philosopher or, as his wife would have it, an
idiot.
And she would nag him incessantly about the utterly inordinate
amount of time he spent staring out into space, or mulling over
the mechanics of safety pins, or doing spectrographic analyses of
pieces of fairy cake.
''Have some sense of proportion!'' she would say, sometimes as
often as thirty-eight times in a single day.
And so he built the Total Perspective Vortex - just to show her.
And into one end he plugged the whole of reality as extrapolated
from a piece of fairy cake, and into the other end he plugged his
wife: so that when he turned it on she saw in one instant the
whole infinity of creation and herself in relation to it.
To Trin Tragula's horror, the shock completely annihilated her
brain; but to his satisfaction he realized that he had proved
conclusively that if life is going to exist in a Universe of this
size, then the one thing it cannot afford to have is a sense of
proportion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It explains some things such as how the universe is expanding and contracting. How time is speeding up, and the IQ of evolution. You should also read this article.
<a href='http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0277.html' target='_blank'>http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?...es/art0277.html</a>
read the whole thing! It just opens your eyes like, whoa.
Peace, in the middle east <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Other than that, if you could comprehend true infinity you'd probably lose perspective over reality and cause the whole damn thing to crash down on the universe and it'd collapse into a giant vortex and then explode into a new universe. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
It explains some things such as how the universe is expanding and contracting. How time is speeding up, and the IQ of evolution. You should also read this article.
<a href='http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0277.html' target='_blank'>http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?...es/art0277.html</a>
read the whole thing! It just opens your eyes like, whoa.
Peace, in the middle east <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here is a response that reading from one if its forum goers.
Ray's article borrowed his explanation of time from other sources, but it makes the same mistakes of language usage that so many others make. He speaks of time speeding up and slowing down. Time, being a measurement, can't do either. It's the things time measures that change at a more rapid pace.
A human body is a time-measuring machine. We compare the passage of events with one another and label them comparatively fast or slow. For a child, a day seems to drag on forever. For an old man, the days pass so quickly he wonders where they went. Since they live on the same planet and deal with the same changes in their environments, why are their perceptions so different?
For a two-year-old child, a year represents half of its life. So waiting for another birthday is like anticipating an event half a lifetime away. For a 70-year-old old man, a year is only one 70th of a lifetime away. His mind is crowded with 70 years of events perceived and thousands upon thousands of things accomplished. He doesn't have enough hours in the day or enough days left in his life to deal with all that's on his plate. So time seems to fly.
But in objective terms, the days come and go at the same rate they always did. It's just the machine (body) perceiving them that notices a difference. A mechanical clock gives us a more objective comparison because it isn't as strongly influenced by its environment.
Our perception is due, in part, to complexity. An old man's memory is crowded with events and perceptions that make the process of comparing them complex. Much more so than the mind of a child, who has relatively fewer events in his life and fewer ways of making comparisons. So for the child, the days drag by and for the old man, they fly.
The evolution of man is also increasing in complexity and thus seems to mankind to be moving at a faster pace. The collection of tools we call culture is increasing exponentially as a larger number of people are making use of the tools already invented to create new ones. Like the old man, the number of memes we have to deal with on a daily basis is what is growing exponentially. Interconnections between the people who make up our species are also growing in complexity. So the memes we have to deal with not only accumulate more quickly but are also passed among the population at a faster rate.
The result is the impression of our universe moving faster, much as a person looking out the window of his car guages his speed by the rate at which he encounters telephone poles or trees flashing by. But that's the nature of the perceiver, not the nature of the countryside he is perceiving.
This is why we have to differentiate between the measurement we call time and the things we are using it to measure. A measurement is a tool we use to create a map, if only in our minds. We constantly compare the universe we travel through to the map we've made of it. But we have to keep in mind that the map is a work in progress and will never be a complete description of the territory we created it to guide us through. And because we live in a dynamic universe, the parts of the map we first created may no longer resemble some parts of the territory it describes.
What time measures are the changes in our universe. The more and greater the changes we encounter, the faster our universe seems to go.
However space is 3D so considering you can fly "through" the self contained sphere I wonder what is on that "edge." Maybe you cant.
my astronomy proffesor said that the universe is expanding (which has been proven) however there are no Boundaries . Sounds strange but that seems to the most popular idea at the moment.
my astronomy proffesor said that the universe is expanding (which has been proven) however there are no Boundaries . Sounds strange but that seems to the most popular idea at the moment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, that's the point you CAN'T fly "through", that's just like saying if you kept walking straight you would eventually walk off the Earth. If you tried to fly to the end of the Universe, you would never be able to find a discernable point where the universe ends, you'd just keep going until you went in a complete circle. There can be nothing outside of this "sphere" of the universe, because anything trying to escape would run into the same problems you would.
i will be long gone.
btw, the dark matter or "empty void" is not empty. its filled with strawberry jam and large whales that speak spanish.
Don't forget the Swedish clowns that only speak Portugiese!
To quote BMonkey's post:
"I could be wrong, but you might be inadvertantly channeling the Hithhiker's Guide here"
That was what I had going through my mind while I was typing up that post, actually. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> However, I'm positive I've read it in a reputable scientific source that "death by incomprehensible dimensions" is possible.
It's just very rare... probably because media has dumbed us all down to the point where many of us don't care what's outside our own little worlds. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
However space is 3D so considering you can fly "through" the self contained sphere I wonder what is on that "edge." Maybe you cant.
my astronomy proffesor said that the universe is expanding (which has been proven) however there are no Boundaries . Sounds strange but that seems to the most popular idea at the moment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well its only 3D because we see it that way. So far we have theories that ther are 10 dimnsions were the strong nuclear force is explained. Though with 10 demnsions your energy is deluted quickly. For instant electromanatism works by every unit further away you go from the source its a square root smaller. Since the strong nuclear force is 10 dimensional you don't notice it. This is where the string thoery comes in where all matter and energy are just vibrations of string.