You see, to me, an alien getting res makes sense. He's EATING the damn marine.
The only thing a marine gets when he kills a marine is a lowered ammo count... if you wanted to be really picky about it, that should cost the marines res. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> (yes, i'm being facetious)
I'm not worried about what it'll encourage the marines to do or not to do... I just don't get how it works without basically becoming some sort of glorified Counter-Strike "kill bonus" for the marine team.
Ok, I'm going to be blunt. I'm waiting to be impressed. So far, not one of the people who like res for kills have argued thier point.. only counter points. So, Here's what I'm gunna do. I want as many people as feel up to it to answer the following questiongs:
How does Marined getting res for kills:
o Ballance the game in a way that only it can? o Make Marine function as a Team better? (Isn't this the goal?) o Improve the "fun" in playing marines? o Fit/Improve the NS atmosphere? o Improve the game for BOTH sides? o Make NS a better game?
As far as an alternative.... If Marines need more Res, well, Duh. Give then an xtra res bonus, like each RT is 1.25 RT's or something like that, or every 2 minutes they get an xtra 20 res (Can be explained as a "shipment" from whatever ship dropped them, or something.)
I like the idea of munching on a dead marine for res. Maybe that's how aliens can get it.. auto res for kills, bah.. that's all I've got to say about that. BAH!! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Macguyvok+Jun 11 2003, 02:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Macguyvok @ Jun 11 2003, 02:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How does Marined getting res for kills:
o Ballance the game in a way that only it can? o Make Marine function as a Team better? (Isn't this the goal?) o Improve the "fun" in playing marines? o Fit/Improve the NS atmosphere? o Improve the game for BOTH sides? o Make NS a better game? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The game is quite imbalanced if only aliens get res for kills.
Marines need to stick together, if the go off alone it's very likely that they will die and give res to the other team.
Well It doesnt detract from anything fun
Balance > Atmosphere
Aliens will require more teamwork now, or they will be giving the marines res.
1.1j and 1.1p are the only 2 versions of ns that have had both sides getting res for kills and they are the most balanced versions of NS in competitive and pub play.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The game is quite imbalanced if only aliens get res for kills.
Marines need to stick together, if the go off alone it's very likely that they will die and give res to the other team.
Well It doesnt detract from anything fun
Balance > Atmosphere
Aliens will require more teamwork now, or they will be giving the marines res.
1.1j and 1.1p are the only 2 versions of ns that have had both sides getting res for kills and they are the most balanced versions of NS in competitive and pub play. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Duh. Come on people, what more do you want to hear? Stop clinging to ideal and theoretical models about teamplay (and stupid unrealistic deduction like "Resource for kills" = "Commanders job super hard because of too many rambos") and listen what testers think about it. Or do you want Flayra & Co spend 2 months pondering a new way to give marines resources when there is already a complete and working model?
Ah, but Can't the balance be fixed another way? And personally, I play Ns for the atmosphere... I'm convinced we can have BOTH, Marines don't need res for kills... will you agree that it COULD be balanced another way? Are the PT's/Devs willing to try something else?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Or do you want Flayra & Co spend 2 months pondering a new way to give marines resources when there is already a complete and working model?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wouldn't mind. I guess only the hardcore NS players would (which hopefully are the minority - get a damn life!)
True, but not optimal. Balance is not have to collide with atmosphere. There are solutions that enhance the atmosphere yet retain the balance. Those are optimal.
Why are poeple so strongly opposed to particuliar changes? You haven't even seen them and you assume that it will change gameplay in one way or another, although you can't know. So please, just be patient and have faith in Playtesting.
I think res for kills sounds very nice. Makes you feel even more happy when you kill an enemey, I suppose <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Anyway, let's just see the final outcome
Now maybe I am from another galaxy or something, but I thought that killing aliens and team play where synonymous. Wouldn't this promote team play, to prevent aliens from getting kills and to concentrate fire power to maximize kills? I know that I am a pretty good rambo in 1.04, but that is only because rines have big advantages in .04. If things are evened out, resource rewards will force people to use team play.
I find it unsurprising that the game wasn't balanced with one side (aliens) getting res for kills when the other wasn't. Asymmetry generally makes games hard to balance, which is the main reason why NS is so difficult to balance anyway. I would bet this same asymmetry issue is the reason gorge res sucking unbalanced the game.
That doesn't mean it's impossible to balance the game with an asymmetric resource system like aliens-get-kills-from-res, but it'd be much harder than a symmetric system.
Ignoring any and all balance issues, which are pretty impossible to comment on quantitatively without playing it anyway, my biggest worry is the amount of newbie hate this change will generate as newbies become not just a player not contributing as much on the team, but an active liability. Of course, since 1.1 is a closed beta, issues like that will not even be apparent till 1.1 is released.
Comments
The only thing a marine gets when he kills a marine is a lowered ammo count... if you wanted to be really picky about it, that should cost the marines res. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> (yes, i'm being facetious)
I'm not worried about what it'll encourage the marines to do or not to do... I just don't get how it works without basically becoming some sort of glorified Counter-Strike "kill bonus" for the marine team.
How does Marined getting res for kills:
o Ballance the game in a way that only it can?
o Make Marine function as a Team better? (Isn't this the goal?)
o Improve the "fun" in playing marines?
o Fit/Improve the NS atmosphere?
o Improve the game for BOTH sides?
o Make NS a better game?
As far as an alternative.... If Marines need more Res, well, Duh. Give then an xtra res bonus, like each RT is 1.25 RT's or something like that, or every 2 minutes they get an xtra 20 res (Can be explained as a "shipment" from whatever ship dropped them, or something.)
o Ballance the game in a way that only it can?
o Make Marine function as a Team better? (Isn't this the goal?)
o Improve the "fun" in playing marines?
o Fit/Improve the NS atmosphere?
o Improve the game for BOTH sides?
o Make NS a better game? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game is quite imbalanced if only aliens get res for kills.
Marines need to stick together, if the go off alone it's very likely that they will die and give res to the other team.
Well It doesnt detract from anything fun
Balance > Atmosphere
Aliens will require more teamwork now, or they will be giving the marines res.
1.1j and 1.1p are the only 2 versions of ns that have had both sides getting res for kills and they are the most balanced versions of NS in competitive and pub play.
Marines need to stick together, if the go off alone it's very likely that they will die and give res to the other team.
Well It doesnt detract from anything fun
Balance > Atmosphere
Aliens will require more teamwork now, or they will be giving the marines res.
1.1j and 1.1p are the only 2 versions of ns that have had both sides getting res for kills and they are the most balanced versions of NS in competitive and pub play. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Duh. Come on people, what more do you want to hear? Stop clinging to ideal and theoretical models about teamplay (and stupid unrealistic deduction like "Resource for kills" = "Commanders job super hard because of too many rambos") and listen what testers think about it. Or do you want Flayra & Co spend 2 months pondering a new way to give marines resources when there is already a complete and working model?
I wouldn't mind. I guess only the hardcore NS players would (which hopefully are the minority - get a damn life!)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Balance > Atmosphere<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True, but not optimal. Balance is not have to collide with atmosphere. There are solutions that enhance the atmosphere yet retain the balance. Those are optimal.
So please, just be patient and have faith in Playtesting.
I think res for kills sounds very nice. Makes you feel even more happy when you kill an enemey, I suppose <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Anyway, let's just see the final outcome
That doesn't mean it's impossible to balance the game with an asymmetric resource system like aliens-get-kills-from-res, but it'd be much harder than a symmetric system.
Ignoring any and all balance issues, which are pretty impossible to comment on quantitatively without playing it anyway, my biggest worry is the amount of newbie hate this change will generate as newbies become not just a player not contributing as much on the team, but an active liability. Of course, since 1.1 is a closed beta, issues like that will not even be apparent till 1.1 is released.