Killstealing

lolfighter

<div class="IPBDescription">New "threat" looming?</div> Since res for kills has now been in the beta builds for a while, I find it is time to bring this topic up. While only a minor annoyance, it is nevertheless worth discussing.
We all know killstealing from CS: You kill a player that one of your teammates considered "his", get the money for the kill, and he starts flaming you for it. With marines this is no problem, as all res goes to the pool, but with aliens, this might be a problem, since the extra res goes to the one who scores the kill.
I have great faith in the maturity of the general NS playerbase, but lamers are everywhere, and even NS isn't immune. Thoughts?

0blique

I think it already happens, so it probably will become a slightly bigger problem in 1.1. However, if you don't respond to their flaming, they usually stop complaining.

Gliss

I agree. I think this might be a large thing to consider in 1.1. Though it's not much of a problem, it can be, with a few idiots.

CplDavis

I dont know why people complain about kill stealing. For example if marines got rez for kills (For arguments sake) I would be grateful if a skulk jumped on my back and a team mate blew him away instead of him just standing there and watch me try to shoot the skulk, miss and then die.

Opt1mus

if you spend the game looking roaming around for the action and jumping in to steal others' kills, i'd say you're applying your skills in the wrong area....seems like a total waste of time that people would <i>intentionally</i> try and do this....

most of the time it appears to be an accidental thing, it's happened to me, and i've said "aww stolen", but i'm still thankful that i received prompt backup

PFCNublar

You know...I've never met a hardcore lamer that would do anything horrible lame. I say that sometimes if i really though that it was my kill but i only say it playfully. i don't wanna drag it into a flame war. and since there is no scoreboard and its against the whole theme of ns to "rambo", most don't care or even try. its not "cool" or "with the bandwagon" to do it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> that applies to lamers since most of them are only 10 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->.

UnderDOG

usally killstealing is for the record not the money, with no scoreboard and communal res for marine i dont think it will be that huge

CplDavis

I never understood y in games like cs for example. If you shoot the guy about to shoot your team mate, he screams at you for stealing his kill.
If you do nothing for fear of stealing his kill and the team mates dies, then he screams at you for sucking and not backing him up.

Ack I hate those people. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> Im so happy they are getting rid of the score board for everyone.

Burncycle

Doesn't giving res for killing an enemy promote trying to boost your individual score?

I thought individual kills "didn't matter"

h4x! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

tanathos

It may be a problem for lame aliens players that want res faster to evolve. For marines, it will not matter since the resources goes to the team.

Gliss

People, he's talking about <b>Alien killstealing</b>, not Marine. Marine doesn't matter because it all goes into the same pool, but since Alien resources are individual, we're worried that it might cause problems for the Aliens (hey, that was my kill, I deserved the resources!).

SpceM0nkey

well for clan matches (majority of what i play).

i dont think my team will have a cry if i kill someone.

Clan_Hunter

I think I've seen coil on the beta boards suggesting that alien killres gets split across the team, that would alleviate the issue of "OMG YOU STOLE MY KILL YOU ###### ######! ADMIN BAN!"

Aezay

I've never liked the "res for kills" idea, consider this...

<span style='color:white'>*NSPlayer gets killed for the 5th time in under 3 min*</span>
<span style='color:orange'>Gorge (also Admin):</span> Stop getting urself killed, ur giving them rez!!
<span style='color:orange'>NSPlayer:</span> Sry
<span style='color:white'>*NSPlayer gets killed again*</span>
<span style='color:orange'>Gorge (also Admin):</span> Arrrh I said stop!
<span style='color:orange'>Gorge (also Admin):</span> admin_ban NSPlayer

Agkelos

<!--QuoteBegin--Aezay+Jun 18 2003, 12:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aezay @ Jun 18 2003, 12:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've never liked the "res for kills" idea, consider this...

<span style='color:white'>*NSPlayer gets killed for the 5th time in under 3 min*</span>
<span style='color:orange'>Gorge (also Admin):</span> Stop getting urself killed, ur giving them rez!!
<span style='color:orange'>NSPlayer:</span> Sry
<span style='color:white'>*NSPlayer gets killed again*</span>
<span style='color:orange'>Gorge (also Admin):</span> Arrrh I said stop!
<span style='color:orange'>Gorge (also Admin):</span> admin_ban NSPlayer <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
During the playtest no such situations sprung up.

Aegeri

<!--QuoteBegin--Agkelos+Jun 18 2003, 01:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Agkelos @ Jun 18 2003, 01:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Aezay+Jun 18 2003, 12:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aezay @ Jun 18 2003, 12:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've never liked the "res for kills" idea, consider this...

<span style='color:white'>*NSPlayer gets killed for the 5th time in under 3 min*</span>
<span style='color:orange'>Gorge (also Admin):</span> Stop getting urself killed, ur giving them rez!!
<span style='color:orange'>NSPlayer:</span> Sry
<span style='color:white'>*NSPlayer gets killed again*</span>
<span style='color:orange'>Gorge (also Admin):</span> Arrrh I said stop!
<span style='color:orange'>Gorge (also Admin):</span> admin_ban NSPlayer <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
During the playtest no such situations sprung up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because, you don't have retards as admins by any chance? :/

I can easily see that happening, it happens in games likes CS sometimes already anyway.

Technically speaking, 1 newbie on your team could actually lose you the game if they die sufficiently. I can easily forsee newbies being booted of servers.

Some people just don't play nice, and I imagine there would be a distinct LACK of these people on PT servers for obvious reasons.

MEShootHere

I really never liked the "res for kill" thing. Although it makes games faster and encourages team-massacres, it could also promote spawncamping (one skulk every 5 seconds = 1 extra res every 5 seconds) thus spawncamping a second hive could become very viable (unless the hive umbra covers the skulks too, although I am not sure).

As to the comment of "this never came up during PT" I am afraid that PTers are a more dedicated and mature group than most pub players. Considering I don't have the time to go fully pro in NS odds are I will get stuck in pub servers 95% of the time. I can easily see how an admin or teammates going "OMG U R GVIING TEHM RES! STOP ATACKING!" could become a problem.

I also think it will make a cut in the beginning skulk rush where every res is crucial to gameplay.
Skulks will rather stay and help our gorges than keep those marines busy with wave after wave of skulks.
Although this could not be a bad thing as "the hive awakens" when the rines come onboard and who rushes without setting up some defenses first. Flayra took a big gamble putting this in. It may turn out fine or just make the game unbearable at some points. But we cannot decide on this unless we actually play 1.1.

Maybe make it a server variable? mp_killres ? Just suggesting.
Or maybe only in tourney mode..would seem a lot more viable to me.
This is where players go to the max of their abilities..pub servers can still have EXCELLENT games and pubs dont require fast(er) and more coordinated games to be fun..while clan games (thus in tourney mode) require more coordination and teamplay, thus making res4kill more viable.

Aezay

<!--QuoteBegin--Agkelos+Jun 18 2003, 08:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Agkelos @ Jun 18 2003, 08:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Aezay+Jun 18 2003, 12:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aezay @ Jun 18 2003, 12:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've never liked the "res for kills" idea, consider this...

<span style='color:white'>*NSPlayer gets killed for the 5th time in under 3 min*</span>
<span style='color:orange'>Gorge (also Admin):</span> Stop getting urself killed, ur giving them rez!!
<span style='color:orange'>NSPlayer:</span> Sry
<span style='color:white'>*NSPlayer gets killed again*</span>
<span style='color:orange'>Gorge (also Admin):</span> Arrrh I said stop!
<span style='color:orange'>Gorge (also Admin):</span> admin_ban NSPlayer <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
During the playtest no such situations sprung up.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course this never happened on a v1.1 server, only open for playtesters and vets.
But I guess this would happen on pub servers.

<b>Edit:</b> Aegeri explains this a lot better 2 posts up

Gliss

Of course no problems arise with clans and PT's and Veterans and the like. They're a close group, a circle of friends/people (vets... lol) that all know each other. Regular public server players <b>don't</b>, however. The majority of people you meet in a server you've never probably even <b>seen</b> in real-life. You don't know them and vice versa. They don't have a reason to be mean to you (except for lack of brainpower), but they do anyway because you know that you can't really do anything to them, meaning, arguements will engage on regular players, but with clan playing, it won't.

CaLFiN

If you get res for killing marines. What happens when you get a fade/onos on your team? It's going to be unfair on Skulks who will be getting no res from kills. But the people who are fade/onos will have enough res to go straight back to fade/onos if they die.

Edit - This is going to make frag stealing worse, if a fade/onos wounds some1 and a skulk finishes them off, I'm sure there's going to be rage, I'd be angry!!!

What's wrong with wanting to get a good score? Frag stealing makes you feel asthough you were incapable of killing somebody. *Shakes fist at frag stealing scum.*

If you go as a pack, fair enough there's a chance for all of you to get the kill, so there's no hard feelings. But if you chomp a guy twice and a skulk comes flying in and kills him, that makes me annoyed.

Gliss

<!--QuoteBegin--CaL_FiN+Jun 17 2003, 11:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CaL_FiN @ Jun 17 2003, 11:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's going to be unfair on Skulks who will be getting no res from kills. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't understand. Just because someone evolves into a higher lifeform doesn't necessarily mean that the Skulks can get resources for killing anymore... did I miss something in the changelog/in this post?

Creepie

Because the fades/Oni will be getting most of them - not the skulks.

Creep.

a_civilian

<!--QuoteBegin--Pjofsky+Jun 18 2003, 02:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pjofsky @ Jun 18 2003, 02:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--CaL_FiN+Jun 17 2003, 11:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CaL_FiN @ Jun 17 2003, 11:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's going to be unfair on Skulks who will be getting no res from kills. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't understand. Just because someone evolves into a higher lifeform doesn't necessarily mean that the Skulks can get resources for killing anymore... did I miss something in the changelog/in this post? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulks are not as good at killing marines as the higher evolutions.

CaLFiN

I mean the higher lifeforms will be killing the marines and getting the res. Skulks won't get a chance to kill anybody.

Edit - lol, we posted the same thing in the space of 2 minutes.

Gliss

<!--QuoteBegin--_Creep_+Jun 17 2003, 11:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (_Creep_ @ Jun 17 2003, 11:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because the fades/Oni will be getting most of them - not the skulks.

Creep. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesn't mean that Skulks can't get resources for kills. Besides, if they saved up for it, why can't the Skulks?

CaLFiN

<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That doesn't mean that Skulks can't get resources for kills.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is my point, they will find it hard to get res from kills.


<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Besides, if they saved up for it, why can't the Skulks?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What happens if they died a lot? Went gorge temp to build dc/res? Just joined the server? Evolved as a Lerk to umbra the hive from an attack/stop shoot jetpackers?

There's lots of reasons why frag res is important.

Gliss

<!--QuoteBegin--CaL_FiN+Jun 17 2003, 11:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CaL_FiN @ Jun 17 2003, 11:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Evolved as a Lerk to umbra the hive from an attack/stop shoot jetpackers? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, if they can evolve to a higher level, they can most certainly get more kills. As for the other ones, bleh.

I also meant 'save up' as in save up from resource hunting...

StoatBringer

Surely it would make more sense for the kill-res to go into the team pool?

CaLFiN

There is no team pool is there in 1.1? Or is it just that Gorges don't get a boost?

TACBadmaster

i thought 1.1 is that clan orientated that this wouldn't be a problem would it?
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->

Shockeh

I've occasionally told people....

"Robbed, you swine" etc etc.... but only lightheartedly. Usually when we're near a hive, and another marine keeps getting in that last shot.

I can't see it becomeing too much of an issue, of course there's going to be lamers. But that's a fact you accepted when you hit that connect button.