To Commander In Beta Forum;
Maveric
Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Its the marines</div> Read the thread "Commander" in the beta forum befor you respond here, first plz.
The possible reason why people just dont want to comm in NS is because no one likes units that can "talk back" and dont follow specific orders you give them. In fact i would estimate your heart rate increases to 80+ beats per minute because it is so stressful. (and not the "good" tension stress; im talking about "pull out your hair" stress.)
Another possible reason is the "Everybody, Somebody, and Nobody" story.
- Everybody thought Somebody would do the job, but Nobody did it because they all though that Somebody would do it. Since Everybody though this, Nobody did the job that was necessary; until Somebody else completes it.
One last reason i can give is that its borring. No one wants to sit in the chair because they'll sit in it for the rest of the game, possibly never having shot a alien; which really is quite borring when you think about it. All you do as commander is place buildings, attempt to control your chaotic marines, and place weapons while you watch, after 40 minutes, the only hive falls to the [whatever] attack you put out. "I wish i was one of those marines down there" some people will probably think. I know it's somewhat dramatic, but its the best one here. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<b>-edit- what reasons can you think of that would make commanding borring?</b>
The possible reason why people just dont want to comm in NS is because no one likes units that can "talk back" and dont follow specific orders you give them. In fact i would estimate your heart rate increases to 80+ beats per minute because it is so stressful. (and not the "good" tension stress; im talking about "pull out your hair" stress.)
Another possible reason is the "Everybody, Somebody, and Nobody" story.
- Everybody thought Somebody would do the job, but Nobody did it because they all though that Somebody would do it. Since Everybody though this, Nobody did the job that was necessary; until Somebody else completes it.
One last reason i can give is that its borring. No one wants to sit in the chair because they'll sit in it for the rest of the game, possibly never having shot a alien; which really is quite borring when you think about it. All you do as commander is place buildings, attempt to control your chaotic marines, and place weapons while you watch, after 40 minutes, the only hive falls to the [whatever] attack you put out. "I wish i was one of those marines down there" some people will probably think. I know it's somewhat dramatic, but its the best one here. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<b>-edit- what reasons can you think of that would make commanding borring?</b>
Comments
Currently I can't without having a splitting headache cause my vid card is going bad...when I hop into the chair it'll often clicker and scramble, making it hard to see and click things.
Prior to that I hardly ever comm because i don't like the set up. It is, in my opinion, clunky and hard to use. I can not easily find my marines, I can't easily track their health and equipment, etc.
However, when I am comm if the unit doesn't use the key to call for health he doesn't get it. When im comm things are done my way or not at all. They can argue with me all they want, if they do they won't be getting anything unless it suits me and my strategy.
My favorite was when Wolverine was comm in hera. He told everyone to get to hera reception and he dropped 3 IP's there. The aliens killed two before we killed them....but in wasting their time to hit the IP's they were not after us.
At any rate after the IP was up he gave out an armory and welder. We quickly welded the doors to close up some vents and welded our way into archiving...and their hive. This one guy spent most of the early game yelling at wolverine to drop an arms lab, drop a proto, grab this res node...and badgering him by calling him a moron and a noob.
We, including wolverine, were all charging and attackign the hive while this noob was in the comm chair (stilling calling wolv a noob) and building up an armslab and basicly wasting time and energy. Finnally he tries to start giving orders and no ones listening...few moments later the alien hive was gone. Even after the sweeping win, he still thinks he was right. Heh.
The point in all this is the comm can be a fun job...not everyone wants to point and shoot. Im looking forward to 1.1 and hoping its a better comm system. One thing the comm needs is the ability to get rid of a marine just as the marines can ditch the comm. If someone is disobeying and then grabs that jetpack without permission I wanna be able to kill/remove him.
I read in another post that RTS games would increase skill of comm, but actually it doesn't affect the abilites that much. The concepts are similar in comming NS and RTS but in RTS the units do somthin that marines in ns don't. That is, of course, the units in RTS will run headlong into 600 hmg equivalents and die just to act as a diversion and NS marines wont.
Sorry for going off Topic.
but yeah, that diversion point is another reason why "units in NS wont follow your orders blindly"
ps. one of the things that annoy me about the comm interface is that you cant give orders using the minimap. I think i heard that it was fixed/added for 1.1, so i might give the chair another whirl someday.
But when things go right and people follow orders, the game progresses smoothly, time flies by and you are left with the warmest glowy feeling ever <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The only downside to this, however, is if people see you win or comm a game well they beg you to comm the next game. And the next. And the one after that. And so on. Which is annoying, since i only ever like to comm about 1 game in every 4 at the MOST.
It's usually better for everyone if i don't tbh <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
This might sound fairly long winded, but usually when people realise you're talking to them personally it clicks and they follow orders. I know I do pretty much whatever the comm tells me to if it's humanly possible. Having your marines follow your explicit orders makes it so much easier to comm and is so very satisfying if you win due to your skill as a comm and your marines skill and teamwork. I only recently got a headset with a mic - trying to comm without voicecomm is quite a challenge to say the least, although if you're a fast typer it isn't that bad I guess. VC makes it so much easier though, especially if you don't have the voice of a 10 year old. If you do - theres no hope for you I'm afraid, you'll just have to wait a few years.
Actually from playing NS for so long I know how it works and most of the time the strats I use of building(hiding) multiple bases are quite successful till they find us which is awhile.But if the aliens find us we move onto base 3,4,5,6 etc till we're dead.So try this out sometime and I think you'll find that it works hoping "some" r new then you shouldn't have a prob or use diversionary tactics,in other words "bait".
One thing I must warn about lol a friend of mine who was recently temp suspended uses this "hiding" comchair strat alot and is good at it,and sometimes turn the game around for the rines and VERY good with a jetpack n welder.
Give progress reports regularly on what you are researching and what your objectives are. If your marines don't know you have a plan they will lose confidence and do their own thing. You can also receive feedback from on the ground -> competent marines will tell you if it'll be tough to achieve your objective.
And make sure you reward marines who do the right thing. If I have a marine who defends base for me he will receive a shotgun or jetpack or heavy armor for his efforts <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
1.) Marines who try to dictate how the game should go. Good marines follow orders and give advice when appropriate, but they shouldn't under any circumstances refuse to follow the orders of the comm, no matter how bad they think they are.
2.) A somewhat clunky interface. I can't count how many times I've dropped the wrong structure or weapon because I chose the wrong button.
3.) The expectation that you must get jp/hmgs and lock 2 hives. Both of these make for extremely boring games. Once this has happened, the comm is diminished to telling marines "phase here to repulse the puny alien attack", "spam health and ammo," "click the upgrade button on the arms lab after so many seconds" and "drop jp/hmg." Instead of commanding a tactical scenario, you are an automated machine for the rest of the marines.
This usualy works 90% of the time. If you give it your best shot they wont bash you for it if you mess up. Besides they had their chance lol.
Hopefully this is different in 1.1, as more tactics are available.
I can't stand it. If I jump in the chair, the first thing I tell my team is that jp/hmg rush will be an ultimate last resort. If the team doesn't like that, I'll probably retry and join aliens. I much prefer HA trains over the lamest of the lame - they're so much more fun. I'll try and convince any comm not to jp/hmg rush if I can too, and generally I have people agreeing with me. It's just so bloody boring.
and yes i do that all the time... it works EVERYTIME <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
But just jumping into a pub and having a bunch of morons scream at you isn't. And most of the players get the bad experience , especially when doing somethign new.
I believe, that is what hurts commanding ; (
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Exactly. If you try something, and it fails, your entire team fails.
In most games where no one will comm, it's because the role has been elevated to The Chair Of Blame. You touch it, and everything becomes your fault. Usually this happens after several back-to-back marine losses.
Of course, even though it's All His Fault, no one will eject the comm, because then they might inherit the Chair Of Blame.
i don't mind a relocate, but generally reloc to a hive is *** as well, i prefer strategic locations on a map more (which doesn't necessarily mean processing <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
i just make it clear at the start where each marine should be: saying "you should all be at base or ~insert hive name here~", and stress that i won't be getting jp's, i don't even upgrade them unless i really want to as it annoys me as alien to be victim of the lame tactic
so yeh, the trick, as comm is to make it NOT boring, use voice comm a lot, and tell your little rines what exactly you plan to do, if in the event you get ejected, well...just retry, go aliens, and tell everyone what the new comm's tactic is <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
My experience is that while most do not actually want to Comm per se, they want a "puppet Comm" who will be willing to give them what they want and when they want it. In effect, they are Comming; it's just that now they have the added benefit of not being in the chair when the **** hits the fan and are thus immune from blame.
I have yet to "have a good time" as a Comm. All my attempts have met with disaster in one form or another. Usually I'd end up taking the chair when nobody else would do so. Because I don't have a mic, it makes it nearly impossible to spell out plans in detail. And invariably more players would join during the course of the game, making it even more difficult to "get them up to speed" as to what is happening.
Enough rambles though: I think it essentialy boils down to whether you have the personality that lends itself to leadership. Do you enjoy trying to herd a group of pubbers into a cohesive unit ? If you can inspire confidence and describe plans well they'll probably go along with you (assuming they're not just wankers). This will naturally lend itself to fun. If you don't have the inclination to lead or end up with a group of hard-headed guys then you're not going to have much fun. In fact you're in for alot of abuse.
Another factor which I regard as secondary but still detrimental to the Comm experience:
Comm-interface. Roll on 1.1 !! The old interface is just hopelessly inefficient.
Communication is the key as commander and if your marines won't listen to you then you're in for a hard time. I enjoy comming, win or lose, as long as my team tried their best to follow whatever advice/orders/waypoints I gave them.
Teamwork and communication go such a long way, which is why I love this game. It can be totally frustrating, but also very rewarding.
Oh and because if you ever get out of the chair as com, some jerk almost always jumps in and builds a tfac in your main base... etc...
I think fixing the mute feature could really help reduce the amount of negative stress on the commander. I mean, this has to be one of the biggest flaws of the game. I know there is a work-around for muting people, but thats just not good enough.
Flayra please for the love of all that is good in this world, fix the mute feature.
Another solution is to find a good server, preferably with a good admin, and respectful marines who obey orders, and treat the com with as much respect as they give thier marines.
And if you arent prepared to deal with the stress dont get in the chair. I have learned over time to deal with the stress... I have realized that I cant win them all, no matter how well I com, and that there are always going to be loud, boisterous, blowhards. (verborum bombus)
laz
- Everybody thought Somebody would do the job, but Nobody did it because they all though that Somebody would do it. Since Everybody though this, Nobody did the job that was necessary; until Somebody else completes it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is basically why sometimes everyone just stands there going: "So uhm whose going to command?" For myself, I feel I'm more needed as a field soldier so I can get the job done rather then make the orders. Also as a marine on the field I can actually play as a field commander somewhat and make sure the commander isn't failing to do something critical.
<ul>
<li>my lack of voice comm
<li>the crappy interface - it takes me half a second every time I need to decipher one of those bluish dots some seriously call buttons
</ul>
And one more complicated reason:
<ul>
<li>the impossibility of interaction with individual marines
</ul>
The latter has a number of reasons. First, I can't see the marine names all the time in this version. Second, I don't have a list of all marines with their current health, armor and equipment ready for reference in some corner of the screen. Third, the relationship of the marines and the comm (i.e. the question who is boss) is unclear and resolving this question involves a lot of frustration for the comm and a lot of wasted time and awareness for the team. Currently, certain more outspoken marines (let's call them whiners) can, and do, endlessly bother the comm with trying to control his actions. If some sort of mild punishment of marines by the commander was implemented - muting them and making them unable to move for 30 seconds or so - the struggle between the comm and the whiners would be settled and the comm would be free to do his actual job. Whiners would (hopefully) learn not to whine.