Just some sillyness
blueman
Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Cause pt mappers are working hard.......</div>Well, as we all know THE MAPPERS (MErkaba, Relic25, Narby, KFS, Ken, etc...) are all finishing up their maps for the release (hopefully) so noone posts here any screenies, but HEy, here am i.
First this shots are from a friend and me "map testing" we did the other day in the NSTR (i was showing him the rooms and that)
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v2_odin0.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v2_odin1.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v2_odin2.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v2_odin3.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v2_odin4.jpg" border="0">
and now, ive been drawing a new layout of ttro and im using some of the old rooms. the pics are of a very early stage, but....
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v3_0.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v3_1.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v3_2.jpg" border="0">
hope you like it:
First this shots are from a friend and me "map testing" we did the other day in the NSTR (i was showing him the rooms and that)
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v2_odin0.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v2_odin1.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v2_odin2.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v2_odin3.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v2_odin4.jpg" border="0">
and now, ive been drawing a new layout of ttro and im using some of the old rooms. the pics are of a very early stage, but....
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v3_0.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v3_1.jpg" border="0">
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v3_2.jpg" border="0">
hope you like it:
Comments
nice work <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
Ive changed (again) the layout an done a new one but using some of the old rooms. here it is.
<img src="http://www.planethalflife.com/roleplayhl/team/blueman/ns_ttro_v3_layout.jpg" border="0">
edit: Oh i forgot to mention, although the rooms look lika a bunch of squares, its just to show where they are, the rooms arent squareish <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
have u read the mappping rulzors ?
Also, blueman, are each of those hives at least a 30-second walk (for a marine with default gear) from the marine spawn?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, blueman, are each of those hives at least a 30-second walk (for a marine with default gear) from the marine spawn?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, , for example the left hive is 28 seconds away.
but please dont think the rooms will be the white swuares you see, inside each room there should be other things, some corridors, etc... its not just a big squarish room with nothing in it.
Well. about the entrances. Ive seen, for example, hera's layout and it has 1 entrance to each hive, although merk has made a two entrances to it (or 3) they all come from the same room, so its basically 1 entrance per hive. But each hive has its alien only passages, so it can be attacked fairly well if marines camp there. please dont just think the all the white you see is 1 corridor or room, it will have lots of things inside it.
erm, 28 seconds isnt at least 30 seconds . . . just pointing that out (not that 30 seconds is really an exact number anyway, just an estimate of what it should be for better gameplay)
The key here is that no hive should have a bottleneck between it and the marine spawn. A bottleneck would be a single hallway which *must* be passed through... hallways are much easier to defend than rooms.
Simillion
I think you may be on the same page, but just in case, I thought I'd comment.
<!--EDIT|ken20banks|July 10 2002,19:36-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->And to add to that point...if you can't map, imho you have absolutely no right to tell someone who can what to do<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And if you have no idea how the NS community works, imho you have absolutely no right trying say that we are bossy, and/or restrict mappers.
Sorry if you take offense to my post....
First off, you didn't even read well or understand my post clearly. Allow me to clarify for you. I didn't say anything about "ordering" or "bossing" the mappers around. Who were you quoting on that, by the way? I already said that one entrance only to the base is a stupid idea, if you were able to read that. And I agree with you that restrictions and guidelines are a good thing. What I meant to communicate was that nitpicking over a few details in a mapper's work is pointless--making a few hallways longer in order to lengthen the running time does not make a map better, it makes it...longer. There's a pretty big difference between suggesting something to improve the map and arguing about a minor detail, especially considering the mappers have deadlines and therefore MUCH MORE IMPORTANT problems to work out. Rules as to what kind of gameplay the mod needs are necessary, so I agree with everything in the mapping guidelines on the website. HOWEVER: I believe in "constructive critism," and if you ask me, complaining about a few seconds worth of walking is a waste of time. The mappers have read the guidelines too; they're not illiterate. Other issues, such as design, texturing, and concepts are MUCH more important, and yes, of course mappers want feedback on that. When I see forum readers commenting on color or light schemes, for example, I know that helps the mapper.
Secondly, I object to your saying I have no idea how the NS community works. Sure, I don't post often, but I've kept track of NS for months, and I read the boards much more then I post on them. Think before you make assumptions about me, please, because that is insulting.
When I said mappers should be allowed creativity, I didn't mean let them blow away the guidelines, I meant that a little experimentation, in moderation, can only yield good things, and if not, well, the map won't be official. No big deal; the mapper can choose to take the risk. It's ultimately their decision.
Ken20banks, I think we're in agreement here too. I think the indoors only rule is optimal for the game, since jetpacks and climbing aliens work best in an indoor environment, but that's obvious. Anyway, I don't want to say anything else on the subject.
-Simillion
(This is exactly why I choose not to post...)
Arguing over two seconds is -not- needed. Realize that the run speed in the NSTR is -not- going to be what everyone runs at in game, and more often than not it will be somewhat slower, thereby making the walk longer (which is <b>not</b> something that needs to be taken into account while mapping at the moment, as the guidelines were made with the fact that the mapper would have the NSTR, and not the full game).
If it were a 20 second difference, then pointing out the guidelines would make sense. 2 seconds of difference is -not- that big of a deal (it could even be bad timing with the watch or whatever).
Steve, I don't care if you have 492 posts more, he made a valid point in the first place. Lay off. How can you expect him -not- to take offense to a post that basically says "Your post count is smaller than mine so you can't comment, nyeh!"...?
I'm noticing a distinct trend of quite a few people getting more and more elitist (intentionally or not) as release nears. I can see it now... by NS beta 2, we'll already have the "old-school" NSTR vets
Help rambling about how NS sucks because it's infested with "n00bs" who "don't know anything." I feel sick already. Or maybe that's just my post-op pain killers fading away again... Probably shouldn't have tried to push myself for this half-day of work today... :-\
<!--EDIT|KungFuSquirrel|July 11 2002,17:44-->
1) Mappers should ignore the guildlines (from "if the mapper wants to be different, then let him or her.")
2) He is also saying that if you dont map, then dont give feedback. !?!??!?! Did you all take crazy pills this morning? You dont need to be an 100% A+++ mapper to give good feedback, I have given some great feedback and I cant even come close to what Ken, KFS, Greedo, Merk,etc. are doing. Does that make my comments less important?
Quote from Sim: "I already said that one entrance only to the base is a stupid idea, if you were able to read that"
I am able to read, and I have read your post many times now. No where did you say it was a stupid idea -- if anything you were supporting it with the whole 'let the mapper be different' theme. Also, if you have been following these forums for months, which I doubt, then how was I supposed to know? I am not Miss Cleo. If you get offended by stereotypes, then it amazes me that you can make it in the real world where every gets stereotyped. Your "(This is exactly why I choose not to post...)" line is pretty funny becuase I am sure I was not the only person offened by your "And to add to that point...if you can't map, imho you have absolutely no right to tell someone who can what to do" statment. I took a good amount of offense when you said people who dont map should not give feedback - hence the negative theme is my post.
Quote from Sim: "I didn't say anything about "ordering" or "bossing" the mappers around. Who were you quoting on that, by the way?"
You. Look right here "And to add to that point...if you can't map, imho you have absolutely no right to tell someone who <b>can what to do</b>" When you tell someone what to do, you are bossing them, ordering them.
Moleculor: I am getting the impression that you think I was trying to tell him not to post anymore. I was not saying that at all -- seeing how is post count was 1, at the time; I was under the assumption he has never been here before.
KFS: "Steve, I don't care if you have 492 posts more, he made a valid point in the first place." Yes, maybe he is right about people taking the guildlines too seriously, however I did not reply because of his point that he made. I replied mainly because of his very last sentence, and boy, did that sentence rub me the wrong way. You're whole 'vision' of us being mean to newbies is just ridiculous. I was not negative towards Sim because he is a 'newbie', or has a post count of 1, but because he offended me. I have never been negitive towards newbies before, I am not now, and I will not be in the future.
/me goes for his flame protective suit
Anyyywaaaaay... <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> I think it was just the "If you can't map, dont give feedback" comment that caused your harsh response. And I agree with your stance on that and definitely do fully appreciate the feedback you have given... sometimes that's the best feedback a mapper can get! People who don't make levels all day, and aren't anywhere near as competative can look and take note of certain things that others would miss. But yeah, the "Don't comment if you can't map" statement is dead wrong, and I was thrown off by it at first too... but after ignoring it and reading the rest more carefully, I fully understood his point, and he is correct there.
Basically, there are two kinds of "constructive" criticism: 1) The well thought out kind where you really take the time to look at something and consider and contemplate different suggestions (like I used to enjoy doing before I got so involved with my own level), and...
2) The kind where you throw in a brief comment or two about "This isn't right", or "This isn't good"... usually without any suggestions on how to "make it better"... If you ask me, this variaton seems more like a clever way to cut down on someone's work, disguised as "constructive" criticism.
Number 1 is obviously the way to go. I love seeing and giving out that kind of feedback. I really despise the other kind, as it's not the least bit helpful.
I think this is what Sim was getting at. I can see how you could have thought that he was getting our constructive criticism confused with ranting (so did I at first)... but he obviously didn't. He's referring to varation # 02. Now shake hands. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
<!--EDIT|ken20banks|July 11 2002,20:26-->
/me shakes hands with Sim but has one of those shocky things! muahahh
and i apologise