Does Nancy Really Have To Go?

zil

<div class="IPBDescription">what about manual editing?</div> I've heard from people that use quark (a level editing tool) that its able to edit entitied properties in compiled .bsps aswell as this if u look near the end of the nancy .bsp u can see all the entities properties. I believe that it would be possible to maually edit the origin properties for info_team starts and set them higher. Then nancy would not need to be left out from 2.0. (i understand that the only thing preventing this is the height of the starting points)

(there u go cwolf <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )

CWolf

off topic: omg, please compress the pictures before showing them here <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

on topic: I think it's always worth a try. I love nancy.

Iced_Eagle

well they don't have the source of the map file so they can't really edit anything.. they could decompile but would most likely lose allotta entities in the process

Liger

it could work... although appearently the Onos get stuck randomly while walking, not just at spawn/hatch


Which to me, proves TSA floors arn't cleared for 1+ ton death cows...

criticaI

Its more than a "one problem" sort of thing. Not only the height of the spawns also the number of them and the heights of alot of the world objects that onos can't get past. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->

zil

<!--QuoteBegin--briguy992+Jul 19 2003, 07:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (briguy992 @ Jul 19 2003, 07:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well they don't have the source of the map file so they can't really edit anything.. they could decompile but would most likely lose allotta entities in the process <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
well i was taking about editing the .bsp not decompiling it. But it seems that theres lots of other problems such as world objects and there no way to manually edit those

venomus

It's quite possible to edit point based entities (and the properties of brush entities, maybe) of a compiled .bsp . The same cannot be said of editing either world or brush entity geometry. NS 2.0 requires changes to the placement of the brush entities which tell players what named part of a map they are in (info_location). Potentially this could require recompiling a map for 2.0 if you wanted it to be completely bug-free. Either that or they wanted to, but couldn't, make more radical changes to the map design for gameplay/balance purposes.

Of course with Devildog's permission, a <i>very</i> patient mapper could recreate Nancy from scratch using the decompiled .bsp as a template.

Haze

I'm all for it.

BigMadSteve

Can't the onos just be made smaller? Would save a lot of hassle.

Church

Made smaller? Don't think so. Remember, that are only 4 hull sizes in HL: Null size, skulk size, standing marine size, and onos size.

zil

Well guys i managed to edit the alien spawn points so that aliens spawn approximatly 100 units higher than before. This has not been throughly tested for every spawn point so there is a chance that you may spawn in the roof. If that does happen to you please post here as to which hive this happens in. Now i know that someone said that there were lots of problems in nancy and that was why it is being dropped. However reading over the 2.0x changelog it seems that the main reason for dropping it is because of the spawn points. So maybe this will allow the map to be included after all? If anyone is able to contact flayra or anyone on the dev team could u please point them to this topic so they can d/l the file and see what they think.

<a href='http://www.freewebs.com/spacer/ns_nancy2.zip' target='_blank'>Here it is</a> (u may have to copy and paste into the addres bar or use a d/l accelerator)

edit: I just had a wonder through nancy as an onos and i couldnt find many other onos related issues in it. Every where in the map is accesable by an onos except for the vents. There are only one or two places where i couldnt go unless i crouched to get past a doorway but that was it. I really dont see why the map should be excluded from 2.0 now that the spawn height isnt an issue.

edit2:venemous u said that info_locations in 2.0 have changed. I knew this but i thought that the only change was that could be placed at any height instead of at the height where the player would be touching them. They are also recommended to be 8 units high. I thought that all old maps would still work because they be on the right x y position and the 8 units was just a guidline?

Lightning_Blue

If there are only 4 hull sizes, how do you account for Baby Headcrabs, Regular Headcrabs, Houndeyes, Slaves, Marines, Gargs, and Gonarchs in regural HL? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->

Zel

<!--QuoteBegin--Lightning Blue+Jul 19 2003, 05:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lightning Blue @ Jul 19 2003, 05:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If there are only 4 hull sizes, how do you account for Baby Headcrabs, Regular Headcrabs, Houndeyes, Slaves, Marines, Gargs, and Gonarchs in regural HL? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
regular headcrabs and houndeyes can use the same size clippin box, slaves, soldiers, barneys, scientists could all use the same clipping box, and then theres each of the huge things.

see the benefit of this type of single player experience is that youll never really see the buggy errors in the total size and shape of a slave alien, since youll always be kiling them and not watching them walk through low ceilinged doorways... an online multiplayer game lets use notice every bit of these thiny things...

venomus

Thought I heard something about info_locations in 2.0 should not overlap. At the moment you can have an info_location on top of another and it will still work (although there are reasons you should not have them overlapping anyway). TBH probably the best reason for dropping Nacy is it could not have major changes done to it. I mean look at Hera and Eclipse they have some completely redesigned areas.

<i> If there are only 4 hull sizes, how do you account for Baby Headcrabs, Regular Headcrabs, Houndeyes, Slaves, Marines, Gargs, and Gonarchs in regural HL?</i>

AFAIK monsters use a different collision system than players.