<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> Whichever team has me on it
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Edit - Or just wait for a timely server crash. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A bane of all long epic games. I h8te you server crash!!111
i dunno how to quote bits so i won't but in that long post where you say you should use devour, with 3 marines with hmgs it only takes 14 bullets(10 without carapace) from each marine to kill that onos, and the onos has to run in devour and run away with a slight speed penalty, it takes less that 1.5 seconds to shoot 14 bullet from a hmg so that onos could die even before he got to the marines,if he did manage to devour him, the onos would die and the marine would pop out again, providing of course the marines didn't miss. and web can be welded, with 3 marine constantly welding to keep armor up, it would get rid of the webs automatically
<!--QuoteBegin--Kevor+Jul 22 2003, 12:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kevor @ Jul 22 2003, 12:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> marines. though 1 onos>1HAHMG you cannot fit say 6 oni around the marine team if they are close together, it takes only 43 shots to kill an onos with 6 marines half welding, half shooting, staying together in corridors (theres alway corridors) then only 1or2 oni can attack at a time, oni will die quite easily, marines walk to the hive take it out and no more oni. and med spam is always helpful. it takes 8 onos claw attaks to kill ha marine. though dunno if charge would work <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah ok, so the scenario suddenly is maxed out marines that use teamwork and act smart vs stupid aliens that run in one and one and die. Duh.
I stick with my original answer, in 1.04 Aliens will win.
onos devour can eat ha +hmg+ welder = 55res in the belly before the ha guy gets a shot off. <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
Gorges suicidin with bile bomb can take out a spawn with lil backup <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
xeno will own all light armor marines <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
lerks spamin primal scream makin the whole destroy go faster <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Fades blinkin in and out of marine spawn = own <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
all marines can do is hope there base d holds up and spam as many GLs before teh aliens take whatever res they have down <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
5 onos, 5 heavys, each onos devours one, eats the rts, rushes to base before the guys are devoured and kill their ips. GG <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Stoneburg+Jul 23 2003, 08:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Jul 23 2003, 08:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Kevor+Jul 22 2003, 12:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kevor @ Jul 22 2003, 12:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> marines. though 1 onos>1HAHMG you cannot fit say 6 oni around the marine team if they are close together, it takes only 43 shots to kill an onos with 6 marines half welding, half shooting, staying together in corridors (theres alway corridors) then only 1or2 oni can attack at a time, oni will die quite easily, marines walk to the hive take it out and no more oni. and med spam is always helpful. it takes 8 onos claw attaks to kill ha marine. though dunno if charge would work <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah ok, so the scenario suddenly is maxed out marines that use teamwork and act smart vs stupid aliens that run in one and one and die. Duh.
I stick with my original answer, in 1.04 Aliens will win. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> erm i'm not saying the aliens don't use team work, i'm just saying the sheer size of the onos makes it harder to attack at the same time.i guess in 1.04 aliens have a better chance of winning, though i've never played 2.0 with no bile bomb and spores nerfed. i reckon marines will win
Ive had many stalemates in 1.04 where the marines maxed out tech while holding a hive, but the aliens came out on top with only tier 2 tech. All it takes is a little coordination.
Just a thought, but... I think one player from each team would try to take down the enemy res nodes. That would be a smart thing to do. The team with the most res would win this game, so it would become a terrible battle over res. Thats what I think anyways.
Wait, is he talking about 2.0? I'm confused now. If its 1.04 of course marines lose, the onos will totally own the aliens. I would know, this sort of game just happened to me a week back or two.. <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
But with the aliens having three hives, I still think it would be a battle of res nodes.
For the aliens to have Lv 3 tech they need all three hives, and I have never seen a game where the aliens have all three hives without also owning a vast majority of the map, meaning that with level three tech they not only have bigger units the the mariens but they will always have more res meaning that in a lv3 vs lv3 battle the aliens will win.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well written Ryo. Though, you've forgotten the all important gorge factor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well yes and no. Thinking as I was in terms of 2.0 the gorge is very much anti base thanks to bile bomb. I truely think that if an alien team was comitted to the full on assault I described they would keep their gorge, along with one or two lerks (probably 2 because umbra lasts so little time). Bile bomb would obliterate any front line defenses including those nasty electified structures. Don't discount webs either; and healspray also is a boon. Even a gorge running forwards and combat-building a sensory chamber in the middle of the main assault: instant cloaking for the whole team! I think that the gorge would likely stay, and that he would help, rather than hold back, the assault.
The key factor however, remains the hive. If the main alien assault force get's back to their hive and finds a fortified marine team and no hive, they're in trouble. No web, no primal scream, no xenocide, (is stomp on onos's 3rd hive ability? I can't even remember it's changed so much) and no acid rockets. They still have bile bomb true, but against decked out marines with full upgrades the assault will be tough. However, if say the gorge combat builds a movement chamber as soon as the hive is under attack, and the main alien force goes through it, they'll surprise the marines and probably slaughter them. In that occurance yes the marines are going to lose.
By the 3 hive stage it's simply damn tough for the marines to pull a victory off. My scenario I think describes one of the most likely situations of it occuring; and even it is dependant on a fair amount of stealth and luck.
This is pretty clearly an alien win, definitely in 1.04, and I suspect also in 2.0.
However, when do you see a marine team with the same amount of nodes as an alien team, <i>without</i> controlling any hives? None of the maps really allow this. If someone could point out a configuration of marine bases and alien controlled territory which allows alien to have 3 hives but an equal amount of res, I'll gladly take this back, but I think it's pretty much impossible.
A much more interesting situation, therefore, is with aliens having 2 hives and equal res nodes. This allows for very long stalemates in 1.04 in my experience. Any testers care to comment on how this is in 2.0?
Yep, 3 hives is basically always an alien win in 1.04 from my experience, unless the marines do some quick thinking and take the third one out before it's really secured. Even if the marines are turtling in their base, onoses with charge will take out their structures one by one without much trouble. Part of this is because 3 hives means that aliens basically control the map, and thus have a huge res and positional advantage.
The real stalemates take place in big games with 2 hives vs. 3rd tier marines. Most of the time in pubs I see marines win in that case, often because the Aliens aren't organized enough to pull off a full assault with umbra. The Lerk/Fades combo is sadly underused in most pub games.
As far as who *should* win, personally I think Aliens deserve their victory in that situation. As I said, if you have 3 secure hives then you will basically have complete control of the map and will be pinning the marines in their base. Maybe Onoses shouldn't be as obscenely powerful as they are in 1.04, but when aliens have such a huge map advantage then they really deserve the win one way or another.
Comments
A bane of all long epic games. I h8te you server crash!!111
though 1 onos>1HAHMG you cannot fit say 6 oni around the marine team if they are close together, it takes only 43 shots to kill an onos with 6 marines half welding, half shooting, staying together in corridors (theres alway corridors) then only 1or2 oni can attack at a time, oni will die quite easily, marines walk to the hive take it out and no more oni. and med spam is always helpful. it takes 8 onos claw attaks to kill ha marine. though dunno if charge would work <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah ok, so the scenario suddenly is maxed out marines that use teamwork and act smart vs stupid aliens that run in one and one and die. Duh.
I stick with my original answer, in 1.04 Aliens will win.
onos devour can eat ha +hmg+ welder = 55res in the belly before the ha guy gets a shot off. <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
Gorges suicidin with bile bomb can take out a spawn with lil backup <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
xeno will own all light armor marines <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
lerks spamin primal scream makin the whole destroy go faster <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo-->
Fades blinkin in and out of marine spawn = own <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
all marines can do is hope there base d holds up and spam as many GLs before teh aliens take whatever res they have down <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
though 1 onos>1HAHMG you cannot fit say 6 oni around the marine team if they are close together, it takes only 43 shots to kill an onos with 6 marines half welding, half shooting, staying together in corridors (theres alway corridors) then only 1or2 oni can attack at a time, oni will die quite easily, marines walk to the hive take it out and no more oni. and med spam is always helpful. it takes 8 onos claw attaks to kill ha marine. though dunno if charge would work <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah ok, so the scenario suddenly is maxed out marines that use teamwork and act smart vs stupid aliens that run in one and one and die. Duh.
I stick with my original answer, in 1.04 Aliens will win. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
erm i'm not saying the aliens don't use team work, i'm just saying the sheer size of the onos makes it harder to attack at the same time.i guess in 1.04 aliens have a better chance of winning, though i've never played 2.0 with no bile bomb and spores nerfed. i reckon marines will win
Ive had many stalemates in 1.04 where the marines maxed out tech while holding a hive, but the aliens came out on top with only tier 2 tech. All it takes is a little coordination.
Web pwns joo <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
cos no 2 teams can ever be perfectly even
But with the aliens having three hives, I still think it would be a battle of res nodes.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well yes and no. Thinking as I was in terms of 2.0 the gorge is very much anti base thanks to bile bomb. I truely think that if an alien team was comitted to the full on assault I described they would keep their gorge, along with one or two lerks (probably 2 because umbra lasts so little time). Bile bomb would obliterate any front line defenses including those nasty electified structures. Don't discount webs either; and healspray also is a boon. Even a gorge running forwards and combat-building a sensory chamber in the middle of the main assault: instant cloaking for the whole team! I think that the gorge would likely stay, and that he would help, rather than hold back, the assault.
The key factor however, remains the hive. If the main alien assault force get's back to their hive and finds a fortified marine team and no hive, they're in trouble. No web, no primal scream, no xenocide, (is stomp on onos's 3rd hive ability? I can't even remember it's changed so much) and no acid rockets. They still have bile bomb true, but against decked out marines with full upgrades the assault will be tough. However, if say the gorge combat builds a movement chamber as soon as the hive is under attack, and the main alien force goes through it, they'll surprise the marines and probably slaughter them. In that occurance yes the marines are going to lose.
By the 3 hive stage it's simply damn tough for the marines to pull a victory off. My scenario I think describes one of the most likely situations of it occuring; and even it is dependant on a fair amount of stealth and luck.
However, when do you see a marine team with the same amount of nodes as an alien team, <i>without</i> controlling any hives? None of the maps really allow this. If someone could point out a configuration of marine bases and alien controlled territory which allows alien to have 3 hives but an equal amount of res, I'll gladly take this back, but I think it's pretty much impossible.
A much more interesting situation, therefore, is with aliens having 2 hives and equal res nodes. This allows for very long stalemates in 1.04 in my experience. Any testers care to comment on how this is in 2.0?
The real stalemates take place in big games with 2 hives vs. 3rd tier marines. Most of the time in pubs I see marines win in that case, often because the Aliens aren't organized enough to pull off a full assault with umbra. The Lerk/Fades combo is sadly underused in most pub games.