EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Oct 26 2003, 04:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 26 2003, 04:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Oct 26 2003, 05:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Oct 26 2003, 05:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> Nice, but kinda useless <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> The egg wont grow bigger? nah. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I bet you the egg does grow bigger.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A screenshot, no less.
P.S. The pink egg has always been easy to spot and shoot, I dont think it will need drastic measures <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
focus uses the same amount of adrenaline as a normal attack does, but since it's slower, you'll get a lot more adrenaline back. Because of this it's almost like getting the "adrenaline" upgrade as well.
If focus increases damage by 10% per level, and increases cooldown between attacks by 20% each level, doesn't that mean that your actual damage per time goes DOWN with focus? I'm just not seeing how its a benefit. Any pts wanna explain?
<!--QuoteBegin--Typhon+Oct 26 2003, 06:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Typhon @ Oct 26 2003, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If focus increases damage by 10% per level, and increases cooldown between attacks by 20% each level, doesn't that mean that your actual damage per time goes DOWN with focus? I'm just not seeing how its a benefit. Any pts wanna explain?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think I have to agree with you in most cases. Generally, you will have level 3 of this upgrade, meaning +30% to damage and +60% to cooldown time. This would allow a skulk to kill a l1 armor marine in 2 bites instead of 3, but 2 bites will only happen 20% faster than 3 normal bites (1.6 times the normal time rather than 2 times the normal time), but that isn't a big benefit. It will still take 2 bites against a marine with no armor (since it is 97.5 damage). It is beneficial against structures if you don't have adrenaline, but that is the only big benefit I can see.
I just realized that it seems very beneficial for a lerk, as long as they aren't spiking. They don't have to worry about adrenaline, and primal scream and spores will last longer.
And imagine, this focus effect also works on healspray, bilebomb, and stomp. It basically grants Adrenaline while allowing you to have Celerity or Silence. It may or may not be worthwhile for the initial attack/heal, but for sustained attacks/heals it is a godsend. Perhaps even making D/S as popular as D/M.
But again, we still have to wait and see if it's in the final revision.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'>O </span>Onos armor increased from 100 to 300 (hitbox compensation). <span style='color:red'>O </span>Fade armor increased from 50 to 100.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hopefully carapace will be improved, preferably the way it was before 2.0. Currently a carapace onos doesn't last much longer under HMG fire than it does without.
i dislike just one point. i think that too many maps will be added. 9 co maps and 6 ns maps. ok we need some co maps. because without we wont be able to play. but i think 15 new maps is too much. cut the co maps down to 5 or 6 and the ns maps down to max 3 (+ nacy if the remake team finish it by time).
everything else in the changelog looks very good. can't wait to play.
<!--QuoteBegin--5EuroSchein+Oct 28 2003, 06:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (5EuroSchein @ Oct 28 2003, 06:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i dislike just one point. i think that too many maps will be added. 9 co maps and 6 ns maps. ok we need some co maps. because without we wont be able to play. but i think 15 new maps is too much. cut the co maps down to 5 or 6 and the ns maps down to max 3 (+ nacy if the remake team finish it by time).
everything else in the changelog looks very good. can't wait to play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> God NO.
I could care less how many maps there are, who gives a crap if the DL size of NS is large.
Since NS is going to steam, that means you will have to have a broadband connection anyhow to even use steam, so what's the point of cutting down on filesize?
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Oct 28 2003, 06:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 28 2003, 06:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--5EuroSchein+Oct 28 2003, 06:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (5EuroSchein @ Oct 28 2003, 06:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i dislike just one point. i think that too many maps will be added. 9 co maps and 6 ns maps. ok we need some co maps. because without we wont be able to play. but i think 15 new maps is too much. cut the co maps down to 5 or 6 and the ns maps down to max 3 (+ nacy if the remake team finish it by time).
everything else in the changelog looks very good. can't wait to play. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> God NO.
I could care less how many maps there are, who gives a crap if the DL size of NS is large.
Since NS is going to steam, that means you will have to have a broadband connection anyhow to even use steam, so what's the point of cutting down on filesize? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Right.
Besides, Steam can resume its downloads anyway, so it's not like you have to worry about your connection dying or anything.
I can't wait, myself. If Nancy is back in too (thanks to the remake team's effort), then I'll truly be elated.
<!--QuoteBegin--Typhon+Oct 26 2003, 08:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Typhon @ Oct 26 2003, 08:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If focus increases damage by 10% per level, and increases cooldown between attacks by 20% each level, doesn't that mean that your actual damage per time goes DOWN with focus? I'm just not seeing how its a benefit. Any pts wanna explain? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Look at it this way, with all three levels, focus with a skulk bite will do what, 97.5 points of damage a chomp? Well, in the long run, yes, you lose that advantage. But in the short run, you'll rip through vanilla marines like wet tissue paper, since bite has always been insanely fast, not to mention that you can deal more damage to that rt before it elecs. This would provide a more viable elec rt rush with just one hive and sens. But truth be told, we should wait and see. If you don't like the ability, oh well. Like you would use pheremones anyways. What they are trying to do is make sens a more viable first chamber or second in some cases then it's current position in the DMS ladder.
So is DSM better than DMS now? (I realise it's early to jump to any conclusions, but I'm just asking for first impressions.) A fade doing ~100 damage per swipe at level 3 focus sounds pretty sweet to me.
<!--QuoteBegin--Snidely+Oct 29 2003, 12:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Oct 29 2003, 12:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So is DSM better than DMS now? (I realise it's early to jump to any conclusions, but I'm just asking for first impressions.) A fade doing ~100 damage per swipe at level 3 focus sounds pretty sweet to me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The order has become more random again. you have have a SC first and it wont ruin your chances of winning. You can have a MC first and your just as well off. DC is the fav first but its just as easy to win with FOCUS from a SC.
Well, personally I was hoping for the attack bonus without any delays, because if that happened a S/M/D or M/S/D might have been possible, as with the attack upgrades plus adrenaline make gorges that heal insane amounts of damage, and larger lifeforms that aren't tough, but are fast and strong.
But, I dunno if we will ever have that now. I can only wait and see...
Perhaps Focus should take more adrenaline rather than going slower? Just a thought. This may have been discarded because adrenaline could counter that affect, but I'm not sure.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Oct 31 2003, 07:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2003, 07:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't understand; why not just have a focus without the attack delays? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh..yeah. Lets add something that doubles your damage and allows skulks to kill anything except HA in 2 bites, without a delay. Add celirity and gee gee.
Focus is already very good with some attacks. It's a strategic choice, if you don't want to attack more slowly pick something else. It works wonders with splash damage attacks though. Focus bile bomb rips through bases like nothing else. Add redemption, and my hit and run battle gorge is truely frightening for marines who aren't guarding every building closely enough. It makes acid rocket very usefull if you can aim, since you don't run out of adrenaline, and each hit splashes several marines doing plenty of damage. It makes the spore clouds of an early lerk so lethal it's not even funny. The cooldown is super long, but you don't need more than one in a key area to rack up kills. In the current version, focus + xenocide is so deadly it's just sick. The extra cooldown makes no difference when you only need to fire once.
So don't bash focus until the details have been finalized, and you've tried it.
<!--QuoteBegin--Wither+Oct 31 2003, 04:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wither @ Oct 31 2003, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Oct 31 2003, 07:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 31 2003, 07:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't understand; why not just have a focus without the attack delays? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh..yeah. Lets add something that doubles your damage and allows skulks to kill anything except HA in 2 bites, without a delay. Add celirity and gee gee. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So it doubles your damage, eh?
Guess that's inconsistant with the changelogs. If it did deal 2x as much dmg, I'd have to say that's the best thing ever.
However, I thought it would deal +10% more dmg per level. Guess it deals 33%, then 66%, then 100% more with levels 1-3, respectivly.
Other than that, it just seems odd that something that an upgrade would make you kill them slower would be useful.
I know I haven't played 2.1, but that doesn't mean I can't wonder. Notice, I'm not bashing anything, I'm just confused.
<!--QuoteBegin--Quantum_Duck+Oct 31 2003, 10:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quantum_Duck @ Oct 31 2003, 10:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Focus is already very good with some attacks. It's a strategic choice, if you don't want to attack more slowly pick something else. It works wonders with splash damage attacks though. Focus bile bomb rips through bases like nothing else. Add redemption, and my hit and run battle gorge is truely frightening for marines who aren't guarding every building closely enough. It makes acid rocket very usefull if you can aim, since you don't run out of adrenaline, and each hit splashes several marines doing plenty of damage. It makes the spore clouds of an early lerk so lethal it's not even funny. The cooldown is super long, but you don't need more than one in a key area to rack up kills. In the current version, focus + xenocide is so deadly it's just sick. The extra cooldown makes no difference when you only need to fire once.
So don't bash focus until the details have been finalized, and you've tried it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> WTH? That sounds like the perfect addition to the game!
Focus is a bit weird...it's certainly something that makes sensory chambers a viable first chamber though...you can't say no to one bite kills on marines in the early stages of a game. As the game progresses though, focus really doesn't seem to be as useful imo...the slow down is frustrating for me, but each to their own. It isn't an excellent strategic choice for bilebombing or whatever, imo, as you don't destroy things any quicker, you just take out more damage with each attack..which are also slower.
Focus just means what you actually hit with counts for more, really...and yes, focus xeno is quite sick <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Overall I am liking focus, I just don't understand why it's the only upgrade to give a disadvantage along with an advantage...thus making it decidedly average in the "upgrade stakes"...it just seems to shift the emphasis on to accurate attacks, rather than help anyone amazingly (at least to the degree carapace, regeneration, silence etc do.) Personally I'd rather have a lesser increase on damage with a lesser delay time, meaning at least that if you spend the 30 res on sensory chambers, you actually get a benefit rather than a damage adjustment/compensator.
Spending that res to get you the upgrades, plus the 2 for actually taking the upgrade, I think it should increase your damage so that you're doing more damage aper amount of time, over all. But if it is balanced for NS classic as it is, then there's no need to do such a thing (I've not had a chance to play much classic 2.1 <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> )
wait I see that it gives +10% strength per level, with a 20% slowdown per level, and I hear double attack/double cooldown.
Which one is it? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
I bet you the egg does grow bigger.
Beef up the egg's hitpoints, because an onos sized egg won't be hard to spot/shoot.
I bet you the egg does grow bigger.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A screenshot, no less.
P.S. The pink egg has always been easy to spot and shoot, I dont think it will need drastic measures <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think I have to agree with you in most cases. Generally, you will have level 3 of this upgrade, meaning +30% to damage and +60% to cooldown time. This would allow a skulk to kill a l1 armor marine in 2 bites instead of 3, but 2 bites will only happen 20% faster than 3 normal bites (1.6 times the normal time rather than 2 times the normal time), but that isn't a big benefit. It will still take 2 bites against a marine with no armor (since it is 97.5 damage). It is beneficial against structures if you don't have adrenaline, but that is the only big benefit I can see.
I just realized that it seems very beneficial for a lerk, as long as they aren't spiking. They don't have to worry about adrenaline, and primal scream and spores will last longer.
But again, we still have to wait and see if it's in the final revision.
<span style='color:red'>O </span>Fade armor increased from 50 to 100.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hopefully carapace will be improved, preferably the way it was before 2.0. Currently a carapace onos doesn't last much longer under HMG fire than it does without.
i think that too many maps will be added.
9 co maps and 6 ns maps.
ok we need some co maps. because without we wont be able to play. but i think 15 new maps is too much.
cut the co maps down to 5 or 6 and the ns maps down to max 3 (+ nacy if the remake team finish it by time).
everything else in the changelog looks very good. can't wait to play.
i think that too many maps will be added.
9 co maps and 6 ns maps.
ok we need some co maps. because without we wont be able to play. but i think 15 new maps is too much.
cut the co maps down to 5 or 6 and the ns maps down to max 3 (+ nacy if the remake team finish it by time).
everything else in the changelog looks very good. can't wait to play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
God NO.
I could care less how many maps there are, who gives a crap if the DL size of NS is large.
Since NS is going to steam, that means you will have to have a broadband connection anyhow to even use steam, so what's the point of cutting down on filesize?
i think that too many maps will be added.
9 co maps and 6 ns maps.
ok we need some co maps. because without we wont be able to play. but i think 15 new maps is too much.
cut the co maps down to 5 or 6 and the ns maps down to max 3 (+ nacy if the remake team finish it by time).
everything else in the changelog looks very good. can't wait to play. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
God NO.
I could care less how many maps there are, who gives a crap if the DL size of NS is large.
Since NS is going to steam, that means you will have to have a broadband connection anyhow to even use steam, so what's the point of cutting down on filesize? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right.
Besides, Steam can resume its downloads anyway, so it's not like you have to worry about your connection dying or anything.
I can't wait, myself. If Nancy is back in too (thanks to the remake team's effort), then I'll truly be elated.
Look at it this way, with all three levels, focus with a skulk bite will do what, 97.5 points of damage a chomp? Well, in the long run, yes, you lose that advantage. But in the short run, you'll rip through vanilla marines like wet tissue paper, since bite has always been insanely fast, not to mention that you can deal more damage to that rt before it elecs. This would provide a more viable elec rt rush with just one hive and sens. But truth be told, we should wait and see. If you don't like the ability, oh well. Like you would use pheremones anyways. What they are trying to do is make sens a more viable first chamber or second in some cases then it's current position in the DMS ladder.
Think XEANO.
Think Gore
Also: The Egg thing when you are gestating to a larger lifeform looks AWESOME!
The egg doesn't get bigger, but your view does!
The order has become more random again.
you have have a SC first and it wont ruin your chances of winning.
You can have a MC first and your just as well off.
DC is the fav first but its just as easy to win with FOCUS from a SC.
But, I dunno if we will ever have that now. I can only wait and see...
Forlorn.
Oh..yeah. Lets add something that doubles your damage and allows skulks to kill anything except HA in 2 bites, without a delay. Add celirity and gee gee.
So don't bash focus until the details have been finalized, and you've tried it.
Oh..yeah. Lets add something that doubles your damage and allows skulks to kill anything except HA in 2 bites, without a delay. Add celirity and gee gee. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So it doubles your damage, eh?
Guess that's inconsistant with the changelogs. If it did deal 2x as much dmg, I'd have to say that's the best thing ever.
However, I thought it would deal +10% more dmg per level. Guess it deals 33%, then 66%, then 100% more with levels 1-3, respectivly.
Other than that, it just seems odd that something that an upgrade would make you kill them slower would be useful.
I know I haven't played 2.1, but that doesn't mean I can't wonder. Notice, I'm not bashing anything, I'm just confused.
Thank god for Focus bringing up the SC from the grave (again!) Now we can see SDM or DSM or even MSD lol
So don't bash focus until the details have been finalized, and you've tried it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
WTH? That sounds like the perfect addition to the game!
Focus just means what you actually hit with counts for more, really...and yes, focus xeno is quite sick <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Overall I am liking focus, I just don't understand why it's the only upgrade to give a disadvantage along with an advantage...thus making it decidedly average in the "upgrade stakes"...it just seems to shift the emphasis on to accurate attacks, rather than help anyone amazingly (at least to the degree carapace, regeneration, silence etc do.) Personally I'd rather have a lesser increase on damage with a lesser delay time, meaning at least that if you spend the 30 res on sensory chambers, you actually get a benefit rather than a damage adjustment/compensator.
Spending that res to get you the upgrades, plus the 2 for actually taking the upgrade, I think it should increase your damage so that you're doing more damage aper amount of time, over all. But if it is balanced for NS classic as it is, then there's no need to do such a thing (I've not had a chance to play much classic 2.1 <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> )
-Lee
Which one is it? <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->