<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jul 25 2003, 08:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jul 25 2003, 08:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Jojoshua+Jul 25 2003, 01:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jojoshua @ Jul 25 2003, 01:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Should 2.0 Ptin Clans Be In 2.0 Tournaments, 11 days after 2.0 is released?
Yes.
Its not like we wouldnt own anyways. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, as long as you don't play EU clans, apparently...
This topic is about to get locked by the way, if the good humor does not return. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> haha <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
There's been a lot of debate about who gets picked for beta clans, can we not just leave it now please?
Veteran Clan - a clan that has played NS for a long time, doesnt imply they are the best at it.
Also to let you know Mythr1l is scottish and wears a kilt haha <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
yumosis . imv are not exactly good players though. not the worst of the bunch . but theyre nowhere near top level play yet. i saw a random pickup of average clans play them, and they couldnt get a win out of it. lol they even lost a marine round due to bad tactics. so saying clanbase means anything is just silly.
<!--QuoteBegin--Animosity+Jul 25 2003, 03:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Animosity @ Jul 25 2003, 03:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yumosis . imv are not exactly good players though. not the worst of the bunch . but theyre nowhere near top level play yet. i saw a random pickup of average clans play them, and they couldnt get a win out of it. lol they even lost a marine round due to bad tactics. so saying clanbase means anything is just silly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Keyword of my post being SISTER clan, meaning smaller, trying to learn from us. Clanbase is ok, there are a few good clans, no reason to insult it.
if you played in CB you would know, atm ur allowed to do anything basically, if your playing a good clan u could just get a bunch of l337 mercs in to put on your tag and no1 would care.
KenichiThis is not a pie.Join Date: 2002-11-01Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
Yes vet clans should play. Key reasons are...
1) if the goal of the tourni is to allow new teams to learn 2.0 then why remove their ability to see what the teams that have been playing it for 2 months know how to do. The winner of such a tourniment is useless if the goal is to learn.
2) To get better you play the best. The vet clans are the best in 2.0. If anything from experience alone. To not play them would be a huge mistake upon the part of those trying to get better at 2.0
Play the vets, get whooped, learn what they did, get better yourselves. It makes sense. You only stand to learn more by letting them play. Make the demos available and all is well. The winner of such a tourni is pointless if no one learned anything because you forced those that knew the stuff to not play.
People play in leagues to see how they can do against other clans. If people want to learn/test, they play PCWs...do you see?
As for the torment people, please stop saying "blah, we beat this team, we beat that team"...play them in an official. Playing in a pcw means absolutely nothing, since its just a practise match. Maybe I should point out that you got beaten by .BM a few weeks back? Bet the excuses would come in saying why. But it means nothing because it was only a pcw..
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Play the vets, get whooped, learn what they did, get better yourselves.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, yes that's the idea. I'd rather do it in random scrims than a tourney, though - even if it's something of a random tourney.
KenichiThis is not a pie.Join Date: 2002-11-01Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
edited July 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->www.NSPlayer.com is running a 16 invite only tournament starting the 11th of august for clans to <b>get used to waring </b>in 2.0.[<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ahem...
if you dont let vet teams play, all you do is get used to players that dont know what they are doing either. So you get used to novices. Tell me, how will that help you in the long run? On the otherhand i do see playing the vet teams a far better way to get used to it. If you cant see that then i dont see why any of you are responded to the opposition of allowing them play. If your only reason is "its unfair" then you need to step back and take a better look at the results of nub vs nub and vet vs nub. In situation A, nub tactics will prevail. Said nub tactics will continue to prevail longer until said nub tactics are eventually squashed by the vet tactics. Thus wasting lots of time on nub tactics. Nowm in situaion 2, nub tactics will be payed by the nub and squashed by the vet tactics. Nubs learn vet tactics, nub tactics go away. Everyone is happy in less time. gg no re.
HAMBoneProbably the best CommanderJoin Date: 2003-04-02Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
If your clan is better than the vet clans you will easily be able to beat them within 1-2 weeks of release. If you guys only knew how quickly and sometimes drastically the game changes there'd be no need for this post. And i dont think its really fair to judge eu vs us based on one game featuring the top eu clan vs whoever was online at the time from a variety of us clans, but thats another story alltogether. Now that HLTV works we can have some exciting international matches =]
I the fact that Kal decides to randomly make up things to defend his decision astonishes me <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Flarya said it himself that teams involved in 2.0 play testing shouldn’t be apart of any early tournaments Source: nsplayer.com<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If this competition was run in 1.04, there would be no question of letting Hybrid in, and how many australian players could honestly say they didnt think Hybrid would have won a 1.04 comeptition? During our 2.0 beta testing we continued to play 1.04 albeit not as much; I think playtesting is a lame excuse in an attempt to undermine one of the best teams in australian play. Considering the fact that Hybrid in particular have had to play their matches in 400ping most times with a new build being released almost every day changing huge gameplay it has been probably the hardest thing ever to adapt. The only advantage we have other other teams is that our team is used to changes in the game game so we can adapt and use them quicker then any other. And any team with good leadership who has been reading the changelogs should be able to do this aswell.
Kenichi and HAMBONE alrdy nailed this on the head. First if you think we have such an advantage then you will never learn yourself unless you play us. 2nd if you knew how many changes were made you'd never argue at all. Every week the game was a whole new game and we had to test from scratch. The only knowledge we have that others don't are facts memorized from the changelogs. That will take you a week max to get down all the new basics, and thats about the only advantage we have if you even consider that one. Right now there are no super leet vet clan only strats. Was the jp rush made during testing of 1.0? No it was made months after it's release. Fact is we never had a stable version long enough which we could create any "uber leet" strats.
As far as the skill of the top 10 clans, they were taken from the top of the only accurate tourney at the time (NSA-invite, only tourney that was based on time) and based on activity. There is no question that the best US clans were included, though there may be some that are questionable.
in 2 weeks I think the most skilled clans will emerge dominant, regardless of playtesting experince.
excluding vets from any type of tourney or league is just silly.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lux+Jul 26 2003, 01:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lux @ Jul 26 2003, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> though there may be some that are questionable. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> pfft. We were undefeated <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
My personal view is, by August 15th, if you have a clan that's even remotely good enough to win a tournament, they should have the skill to beat even a vet clan. If you have a 1.04 clan that has a good amount of teamwork and can win, they'll win in 2.0.
The game focuses on teamwork *probably* more than strats. Half our strats are getting nerfed or revised with every build changing something new. There have been so many changes and changelogs that half the pts and vets find ourselves lost in a new change that was recently made and not realized. A jetpack and single hmg will no longer win it for you. I don't care how good a single player is in a clan, if they fail to have teamwork or even practice, they've already lost.
Lastly, from the nsplayer.com tourney listing of clans invited, I'm hoping they're from a non-U.S. clan listing as I haven't heard of ANY of them, which I could attribute to those clans being in non-US leagues or very obscure leagues. (Vets can correct me if they've seen them. My clan has been active in some leagues, so...)
My final word is, it's their tournament. It's an invite tournament. As anyone and their mom can come up with their own tourny and their own rules, let it slide (for the vets- we already know you're all good <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->, give the other clans their 15 minutes). As a clan, if you're concerned about getting your arse kicked, you shouldn't play competitive games. The people who are good are good because they've practiced and got there, not because they've been privy to special information (which has been very public with changelogs and such). The skills you have from 1.04 will translate over to 2.0 and the players will have to EVOLVE to win (funny, huh?). If you're a good clan, 15 days will suffice. If you're a newly formed clan, you'll get stomped already, unless you're experienced before in the clan scene of NS. If you're a general player who doesn't clan or play tourneys, well, I envy you, cause I too play to win over fun sometimes.
I find this whole discussion just sad, sorry MonsE, I can't get any humour out of it. Especially when seeing how some people refer to our clan in particuliar...
the only advantage i can see the vets having over the rest of us are the new maps. i know that they change between builds, but i would imagine the overall layout stays the same.
in some ways i'm glad i wasnt a vet or a pt, as instead of having new things introduced one by one, not perfect in anyway, shape or form, i will be totally immersed in a whole new experience. while the vets tentatively got in at the shallow end, i will have jumped off the diving board, which is much more fun
gj to everyone who took part in the development of 2.0, i can't thank you enough. just one thing though: go easy on us will ya?
Sorry egmmac. Nobody believed me when I told the vets they would learn the same thing the original playtesters learned, as well as the Dev team itself:
"No good deed goes unpunished"
(Just wait until the bug reports start coming in if you think this is bad <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
I'm thanking them for it. I don't have any problem with the vet clans competing like they always did... though a 2 week buffer time to learn and explore would be nice.
HA HA HA ridicilous arguments like this is why Im not a clanner nor ever will be. But to answer the question if theres no prizes sure let em play. If a clan is good enough they would give the vets a run for their money at the least. Also I thought that when flayra and the devs chose the vets that there was no official ranking. I thought flayra just hopped in #findnsscrim and chose some of the clans out of there that were 'supposedly' the best?? But I dont know.
<!--QuoteBegin--CutterJoe+Jul 26 2003, 12:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CutterJoe @ Jul 26 2003, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> HA HA HA ridicilous arguments like this is why Im not a clanner nor ever will be. But to answer the question if theres no prizes sure let em play. If a clan is good enough they would give the vets a run for their money at the least. Also I thought that when flayra and the devs chose the vets that there was no official ranking. <b>I thought flayra just hopped in #findnsscrim and chose some of the clans out of there that were 'supposedly' the best??</b> But I dont know. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lol @ what i bolded. i just find this funny because people who did not have the chance to PT 2.0 are ranting on us like were some vermin
Jeez vets don't take it so hard <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's a valid question to ask on the official boards, the community isn't dissing you (though of course we envy you for being able to play ns2.0 even in test mode) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
NSPlayer is Australian primarily, think some NZ clans may play too.
Comments
Yes.
Its not like we wouldnt own anyways. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, as long as you don't play EU clans, apparently...
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Owned...
This topic is about to get locked by the way, if the good humor does not return. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Veteran Clan - a clan that has played NS for a long time, doesnt imply they are the best at it.
Also to let you know Mythr1l is scottish and wears a kilt haha <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Keyword of my post being SISTER clan, meaning smaller, trying to learn from us. Clanbase is ok, there are a few good clans, no reason to insult it.
you sir are one of those angst riddened kids that was made fun of in school. Get over it your a Flintstone kid now.
10,000 strooooonnnnnngg.....and growing
1) if the goal of the tourni is to allow new teams to learn 2.0 then why remove their ability to see what the teams that have been playing it for 2 months know how to do. The winner of such a tourniment is useless if the goal is to learn.
2) To get better you play the best. The vet clans are the best in 2.0. If anything from experience alone. To not play them would be a huge mistake upon the part of those trying to get better at 2.0
Play the vets, get whooped, learn what they did, get better yourselves. It makes sense. You only stand to learn more by letting them play. Make the demos available and all is well. The winner of such a tourni is pointless if no one learned anything because you forced those that knew the stuff to not play.
People play in leagues to see how they can do against other clans. If people want to learn/test, they play PCWs...do you see?
As for the torment people, please stop saying "blah, we beat this team, we beat that team"...play them in an official. Playing in a pcw means absolutely nothing, since its just a practise match. Maybe I should point out that you got beaten by .BM a few weeks back? Bet the excuses would come in saying why. But it means nothing because it was only a pcw..
Well, yes that's the idea. I'd rather do it in random scrims than a tourney, though - even if it's something of a random tourney.
ahem...
if you dont let vet teams play, all you do is get used to players that dont know what they are doing either. So you get used to novices. Tell me, how will that help you in the long run? On the otherhand i do see playing the vet teams a far better way to get used to it. If you cant see that then i dont see why any of you are responded to the opposition of allowing them play. If your only reason is "its unfair" then you need to step back and take a better look at the results of nub vs nub and vet vs nub. In situation A, nub tactics will prevail. Said nub tactics will continue to prevail longer until said nub tactics are eventually squashed by the vet tactics. Thus wasting lots of time on nub tactics. Nowm in situaion 2, nub tactics will be payed by the nub and squashed by the vet tactics. Nubs learn vet tactics, nub tactics go away. Everyone is happy in less time. gg no re.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Flarya said it himself that teams involved in 2.0 play testing shouldn’t be apart of any early tournaments
Source: nsplayer.com<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If this competition was run in 1.04, there would be no question of letting Hybrid in, and how many australian players could honestly say they didnt think Hybrid would have won a 1.04 comeptition? During our 2.0 beta testing we continued to play 1.04 albeit not as much; I think playtesting is a lame excuse in an attempt to undermine one of the best teams in australian play. Considering the fact that Hybrid in particular have had to play their matches in 400ping most times with a new build being released almost every day changing huge gameplay it has been probably the hardest thing ever to adapt. The only advantage we have other other teams is that our team is used to changes in the game game so we can adapt and use them quicker then any other. And any team with good leadership who has been reading the changelogs should be able to do this aswell.
if yer scurred say ur scurred
rawr
but i think we should be allowed to compete
in 2 weeks I think the most skilled clans will emerge dominant, regardless of playtesting experince.
excluding vets from any type of tourney or league is just silly.
pfft. We were undefeated <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The game focuses on teamwork *probably* more than strats. Half our strats are getting nerfed or revised with every build changing something new. There have been so many changes and changelogs that half the pts and vets find ourselves lost in a new change that was recently made and not realized. A jetpack and single hmg will no longer win it for you.
I don't care how good a single player is in a clan, if they fail to have teamwork or even practice, they've already lost.
Lastly, from the nsplayer.com tourney listing of clans invited, I'm hoping they're from a non-U.S. clan listing as I haven't heard of ANY of them, which I could attribute to those clans being in non-US leagues or very obscure leagues. (Vets can correct me if they've seen them. My clan has been active in some leagues, so...)
My final word is, it's their tournament. It's an invite tournament. As anyone and their mom can come up with their own tourny and their own rules, let it slide (for the vets- we already know you're all good <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->, give the other clans their 15 minutes).
As a clan, if you're concerned about getting your arse kicked, you shouldn't play competitive games. The people who are good are good because they've practiced and got there, not because they've been privy to special information (which has been very public with changelogs and such). The skills you have from 1.04 will translate over to 2.0 and the players will have to EVOLVE to win (funny, huh?). If you're a good clan, 15 days will suffice. If you're a newly formed clan, you'll get stomped already, unless you're experienced before in the clan scene of NS. If you're a general player who doesn't clan or play tourneys, well, I envy you, cause I too play to win over fun sometimes.
Especially when seeing how some people refer to our clan in particuliar...
in some ways i'm glad i wasnt a vet or a pt, as instead of having new things introduced one by one, not perfect in anyway, shape or form, i will be totally immersed in a whole new experience. while the vets tentatively got in at the shallow end, i will have jumped off the diving board, which is much more fun
gj to everyone who took part in the development of 2.0, i can't thank you enough. just one thing though: go easy on us will ya?
"No good deed goes unpunished"
(Just wait until the bug reports start coming in if you think this is bad <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol @ what i bolded. i just find this funny because people who did not have the chance to PT 2.0 are ranting on us like were some vermin
It's a valid question to ask on the official boards, the community isn't dissing you (though of course we envy you for being able to play ns2.0 even in test mode) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
NSPlayer is Australian primarily, think some NZ clans may play too.