At first: listen to Humbaba. He's right: this is just about a engine, nothing personal.
At second: I played FPS games since doom (well, most time my big brother was stronger and pushed me away to play) and the only FPS game I've installed is Half-Life. I even had a cracked betaversion with old hud-graphics in the first days... I have neiter Quake3 nor have i UnrealTournament. I played both on LANs, but I get them only from the peoples there and deinstalled them after that. I myself have a quite good system (1,2 Ghz, GeForce 2 GTS) but not long ago, i had only my parents computer (350Mhz, Riva128) and there it was where i played the HL-singleplayer in every difficulty-level, where i started to map, and where I had NEVER any problems with Half-Life. No crashes, no stuttering...
At third: Someone said this already, but again: A good engine may be nice, but's not as important as the gameplay, nor is it as important as the audience nor is it as important as the support. I don't know why you hate sierra/valve/gearbox. As for Sierra, they've nothing to do with Natural-Selection and they've nothing to do with the great support VALVe offers. They only published it. As for gearbox, they've nothing to do with Natural-Selection, they've nothing to do with Half-Life, they only made some (in my opinion) great add-ons(or mods) that helped Half-Life to stay exciting. As for VALVe, they're just a great company that supports the community as no other company does. Sure, they want and get money, but do you have to pay for their patches? do you have to pay for playing online? do you have to pay for making a mod? do you have to pay for getting tech-support? do you have to pay for getting new features? NO! Yes, it would be quite strange to have to pay for a patch, but VALVe doesn't just eliminate bugs, they constantly add new features, put in new mods, release their source-code (partly) and so on... I can't say any bad about VALVe exspect that they're hard to beat by any company...
At fourth: to CrimsonKing: Well, fact is that Flayra DOES most of the things that need to be done. It's so that in a mod that's as complex as Natural-Selection, the coding is the most work. Although the mappers, modelers, sound-artists, testers ect. do much work, Flayra is also the leader of the developementTEAM and must organzie the playtests, get the artwork from the 2d-artists, get the models from the 3d-artists, pick up the suggestions from the testers, put all together and made a new build... And for the suspicion that he only wants money, well, he's a professional, he doesn't need to make a mod, he can just work for a company.
also, quake3 engine is way more advanced so it would take a stronger computer, but half-life doesnt need "as" good of a computer... YAY! 2 more posts and ill have 500 posts! only took me a few months <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
very true, pings and gameplay tends to be better in the hl engine, also you can get lucky and have a friendly team and follows orders <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Freemantle+July 16 2002,11:04--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Freemantle @ July 16 2002,11:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, Flayra has managed to code....
A particle system <i>volumetric flame</i> Wall climbing<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Noooo! Flayra's done the commander mode, particle system, wallclimbing, the popup menu, and the whole 'buildable building' thing, but he has -not- yet done the volumetric flame! That's a work in progress.
Anywho, just to sum things up:
HL has...
- At least 2x, if not 5x-10x more players. - Mod support so good you can call up Valve and ask them questions about stuff. You can even ask them to figure out major bugs that seem to be things you've run into with their engine - Well documented SDK, in C/C++ - Yearly (or is that bi-yearly?) expositions in which Valve shows off mods they like (NS was in the last one)
Q3 has...
- Prettier graphics.
I'm surprised this particular thread didn't turn into a flame war, and I applaud the members of this board for keeping their cool for so long. Everyone can have a donut, and I'll be sure to actually lock Bob up tonight, as opposed to letting him run wild. When I started reading, I was -sure- I was going to have to lock it, but surprise surprise... Ya'll handled it -very- well.
I give up. Oldschool members + NS team wins, /me lose. You have right in all the points. No no i'm not arrogant, i'm very serious, while reading, re reading the whole thread i admit that HL got many advantages instead of Quake3. Of course i will never say HL = teh win, no you'll never hear that coming out of my mouth.
?what? if HL wouldn't be here, NS too ... Okay, but keep in minds i'll never never never say that again. HL = TEH WIN.
<!--QuoteBegin--Moleculor+July 16 2002,18:48--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Moleculor @ July 16 2002,18:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone can have a donut<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sweet! I had no part in this thread but I will sure take that donut!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why do you guys talk about 'going retail' like it is some type of evil greedy goal to have? Going retail is just the next step. Besides, I believe Flayra was talking about the Team going retail, not the mod. The Team stepping up to higher challenges and higher quality productions. Getting into the business through making quality mods is NOT something that should be looked down upon, and neither is having your mod going retail. <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
You wrong sono <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> its pure quake3 engine with some tweak. I could be wrong though ... but show me a links where it is officially said that RtCW was build with a early engine of doom3!
humbabaThat Exciting Tales From the Frontline GuyJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 86Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Im not one to turn down a donut. Me grabs. <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> STAY BACK! MINE!!! <!--emo&:asrifle:--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':asrifle:'><!--endemo-->
DruBoBack In BeigeJoin Date: 2002-02-06Member: 172Members, NS1 Playtester
hey, remember this? <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Moleculor:</b><i>The Marines can eat donuts in game.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I don't know about any marines, but I can sure eat donuts. *chomp*
Oh, and at some point, Flayra mentioned porting NS to the TF2 engine when it comes out (HA!), assuming that the TF2 engine will have similar support from Valve.
I think that the whole NS-community has the right to get a donut and that TeamFortress 2 will hopefully end like Warcraft Adventure: After some time of developement, they make something much better! P.S.: I'm sure that Doom3 will also have -minimal- rests of quake1-code in it, because the developers at Id aren't so stupid to do EVERYTHING new, even if it's just only one ore two lines of code. So when it is "early Doom3" and when it's "late Quake3"? I don't know...
Correct me if im wrong but isn't Half-Life built on a (heavy) modified Quake2 engine ?? Well.. We all love HL Engine anyways <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
/me Grabs a couple of donuts ..
wha only 1 each ? <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
And the id developers are actually using quite a bit of Quake 3 code in the Doom 3 engine, at least until they can rewrite it. They will eventually end up with totally new code for everything, they're just using the Quake 3 engine as a step ladder so they can actually run demos of their new lighting and model effects until they can replace the original Quake 3 aspects of the game. The Doom 3 engine will have almost no Q3 code when complete.
<!--QuoteBegin--Fam+July 17 2002,10:28--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Fam @ July 17 2002,10:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Half-Life is actually Quake1 with a mix of certain quake2 renderering code.. or something like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Accctuuaaalllyyyy -
While HL does uses pieces of Quake 1 as the base, Valve re-wrote or added on (according to the last interview I saw some months back) 85% of the code. So it's vaguely based in Q1, but there is so much custom code that Carmack and company would not really recognize it anymore.
Comments
listen to Humbaba. He's right: this is just about a engine, nothing personal.
At second:
I played FPS games since doom (well, most time my big brother was stronger and pushed me away to play) and the only FPS game I've installed is Half-Life. I even had a cracked betaversion with old hud-graphics in the first days... I have neiter Quake3 nor have i UnrealTournament. I played both on LANs, but I get them only from the peoples there and deinstalled them after that. I myself have a quite good system (1,2 Ghz, GeForce 2 GTS) but not long ago, i had only my parents computer (350Mhz, Riva128) and there it was where i played the HL-singleplayer in every difficulty-level, where i started to map, and where I had NEVER any problems with Half-Life. No crashes, no stuttering...
At third:
Someone said this already, but again: A good engine may be nice, but's not as important as the gameplay, nor is it as important as the audience nor is it as important as the support. I don't know why you hate sierra/valve/gearbox.
As for Sierra, they've nothing to do with Natural-Selection and they've nothing to do with the great support VALVe offers. They only published it. As for gearbox, they've nothing to do with Natural-Selection, they've nothing to do with Half-Life, they only made some (in my opinion) great add-ons(or mods) that helped Half-Life to stay exciting.
As for VALVe, they're just a great company that supports the community as no other company does. Sure, they want and get money, but do you have to pay for their patches? do you have to pay for playing online? do you have to pay for making a mod? do you have to pay for getting tech-support? do you have to pay for getting new features?
NO! Yes, it would be quite strange to have to pay for a patch, but VALVe doesn't just eliminate bugs, they constantly add new features, put in new mods, release their source-code (partly) and so on... I can't say any bad about VALVe exspect that they're hard to beat by any company...
At fourth:
to CrimsonKing: Well, fact is that Flayra DOES most of the things that need to be done. It's so that in a mod that's as complex as Natural-Selection, the coding is the most work. Although the mappers, modelers, sound-artists, testers ect. do much work, Flayra is also the leader of the developementTEAM and must organzie the playtests, get the artwork from the 2d-artists, get the models from the 3d-artists, pick up the suggestions from the testers, put all together and made a new build...
And for the suspicion that he only wants money, well, he's a professional, he doesn't need to make a mod, he can just work for a company.
A particle system
<i>volumetric flame</i>
Wall climbing<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Noooo! Flayra's done the commander mode, particle system, wallclimbing, the popup menu, and the whole 'buildable building' thing, but he has -not- yet done the volumetric flame! That's a work in progress.
Anywho, just to sum things up:
HL has...
- At least 2x, if not 5x-10x more players.
- Mod support so good you can call up Valve and ask them questions about stuff. You can even ask them to figure out major bugs that seem to be things you've run into with their engine
- Well documented SDK, in C/C++
- Yearly (or is that bi-yearly?) expositions in which Valve shows off mods they like (NS was in the last one)
Q3 has...
- Prettier graphics.
I'm surprised this particular thread didn't turn into a flame war, and I applaud the members of this board for keeping their cool for so long. Everyone can have a donut, and I'll be sure to actually lock Bob up tonight, as opposed to letting him run wild. When I started reading, I was -sure- I was going to have to lock it, but surprise surprise... Ya'll handled it -very- well.
I give up. Oldschool members + NS team wins, /me lose. You have right in all the points. No no i'm not arrogant, i'm very serious, while reading, re reading the whole thread i admit that HL got many advantages instead of Quake3. Of course i will never say HL = teh win, no you'll never hear that coming out of my mouth.
?what? if HL wouldn't be here, NS too ... Okay, but keep in minds i'll never never never say that again. HL = TEH WIN.
(edit)who stole my donut?(/edit)
Sweet! I had no part in this thread but I will sure take that donut!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you're still reading this, whoever you are (forgot by page 4) - don't order Flayra & Company around.
...that phrase sounds a lot like Oliver & Company. Hooray for Disney movies with Cheech Marin in them!
/me yanks a donut
/me takes a donut.
Besides: RtCW is based on an early part of the Doom3 Engine, not Q3.
/me takes a donut.
Don't forget! Flayra will not only do volumetric fire. He will make the cheese dispenser! (maybe)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Moleculor:</b><i>The Marines can eat donuts in game.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I don't know about any marines, but I can sure eat donuts. *chomp*
Oh, and at some point, Flayra mentioned porting NS to the TF2 engine when it comes out (HA!), assuming that the TF2 engine will have similar support from Valve.
P.S.: I'm sure that Doom3 will also have -minimal- rests of quake1-code in it, because the developers at Id aren't so stupid to do EVERYTHING new, even if it's just only one ore two lines of code. So when it is "early Doom3" and when it's "late Quake3"? I don't know...
/me Grabs a couple of donuts ..
wha only 1 each ? <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
Accctuuaaalllyyyy -
While HL does uses pieces of Quake 1 as the base, Valve re-wrote or added on (according to the last interview I saw some months back) 85% of the code. So it's vaguely based in Q1, but there is so much custom code that Carmack and company would not really recognize it anymore.