The New Jp, First Impressions

Big_Chief_Brown_Bottom · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">pros and cons</div> pros:
-no fall damage (same as new lerks and fades YAY!)
-non-fps-exploitable
-allegedly anti-onos

cons:
-costs 15 res now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'> although it does its job worse than in 1.04 when they were 9 res
-loses all lift if your head bumps into something. cannot keep in the air even if you have 99% fuel remaining. must land to get additional lift

that second cons part really bugs me. when trying to get into vents and ledges that have obstacles like pipes near them, if you bump into an obstacle you float back to the floor no matter how much fuel you have left. same goes for if you let go of the jump button. you have to hold on to the button or else you lose all your lift. this is what essentially makes it the "jump pack" people are calling it. i think that as long as you have reserve fuel you should be able to get additional lift. it sux if you can't.

if the lift problem is not addressed i would like to see the cost reduced to 10 res each. why get a jp when a ha is only 5 res more? if an onos comes along would you rather outfit 2 jp-shotties (50 res) or get 5 la-shotties for the same cost? i would drop 5 shotties instead of 2 shotties and 2 jps.

n4s7y · August 2003

The cons aren't such a big problem... people just need to practice more as JP. Of course, it's a huge problem in pubs as most people aren't good JPers in the first place. But I bet someone competent in JPing could still carry out JP HMG rushes <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>.

Note to self: Practice JPing skills now that your framerate doens't get in the way <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>.

JimBowen · August 2003

Best thing they ever did was weaken jetpacks. People with the old jet packs were very difficult to stop, and where the cause of the ever boaring jp / hmg rushes.

Clint · August 2003

I like it. I don't know what all the fuss is about!

Personally hasn't made my skill decrease, or stump my team, so I'm happy and content with it.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Tyrain · August 2003

Jetpacks are uber! *j/k*

No they are good in hand of decent players they can be a destructive force.

Once a JP/Shotty almost killed me (3 hives Fade all upgrades) cause he could quickly evade my attacks. But my mates and my rocket finished him. I think a squad (3 JP/Shotty) with comm support and one hive locked can cause major damage to the alien team.

the_draft · August 2003

The new JPs are great. They reward skilled play without unbalancing the game. I would reduce their price a bit though, cause like it's been said, HAs are just a little more money and generally a better choice.

Sarisel · August 2003

Jetpacks are still useful, but have to be used differently, that's all. They are more like jump-packs now, giving you that burst to get out of trouble or up to another level on the terrain. You can't abuse them as much as you could in 1.04, where you literally became a jet fighter - which, at infinite speed, is very hard to shoot down.

roqalicious · August 2003

Jetpacks are perfect.

FoDJohnnyAppleWeed · August 2003

The only problem I really have with them other than the fact that they cost only 5 res less than HA (gee which to choose =/) is the fact htat you really can't JP a hive anymore, no matter how "skilled" of a JP'er you are, OC's really don't miss anymore, and any smart aliens will put OC's in and around the hive location. They hardly help in combat, if you want better combat efficiency then get an HA for 5 res more and you're a super tank with someone welding. I think JP's should cost like 12 or something along those lines. The research for them needs to be reduced a slight bit. I think it was....40 to research JP's? Or 35? That's pretty rediculous considering the additional cost to drop them heh.

Iced_Eagle · August 2003

jetpacks should be renamed to jump-packs. That name serves their purpose more. They are probably only to get to high areas, and jumping out of an attack... Probably not for all flying around but who knows <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> I think they could be made better tho

Zek · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Big Chief Brown Bottom @ Aug 3 2003, 06:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> -costs 15 res now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'> although it does its job worse than in 1.04 when they were 9 res  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Well, in 1.04 they were overpowered, now they aren't... I don't see much of a problem with 15 res + a gun to hopefully kill a 100 res Onos.

Lucid · August 2003

I'd like to see more boost but less fuel to balance the boost increase. With 100+ ping a skulk can bite you before you even get off the ground. I can dodge skulks pretty well on my feet for free. JP was a powerhouse in 1.04, I think they got a little too paranoid about that and went too far. Why nerf the usefulness AND the tech? I am glad they aren't as bad as I thought they would be though. They are still useful but nowhere near as much fun

Ape · August 2003

The new JP is indeed a great onos counter, once you've mastered how to use it. Definately a big change from 1.04, but personally I think it was the right way to go.

Not uber, but not useless either.

Big_Chief_Brown_Bottom · August 2003

i really didn't mind the nerf in effectiveness. hell everyone saw and knew it was coming, but why also increase the price so that for a couple of res more you can buy a heavy armor? the heavy armor is a way better buy in 2.0. they win games. jps do not. like i said before. if you're going to keep all the nerfs then the price should be lowered some

boberto · August 2003

I did see one guy using one who managed to get on top of our hives and start shooting them. Unfortunately I just sprayed some spores up there then spiked him down.

MagiTek · August 2003

The biggest "boost" they gave to JPs in 1.04 is that the aliens lost their counters against them until 3-hive tech. Without acid rocket and webs, it is remarkably difficult to kill a skilled JPer who receives meds when needed.

Kazyras · August 2003

The new idea behind JPs (find a good perch spot and hose down on Onos) WOULD be fine IF the maps were designed with that in mind... but for the most part, they're not. There are lots of critical areas where there are simply no ledges to perch on effectively making the new JPs useless.

ShoCorez · August 2003

I find the new jetpack great! Sure you can't be in the air all the time but when attacking a hive or aliens trick is to bounce around a lot in every direction. Jump from one side of a room to another then go sideways backwards fowards and the skulks will have a hell of a time getting you. Just be advised OC are killer against JP so be sure to remove those first.

cheesehound · August 2003

I like the semi-nerfed JP, but I agree that it seems too expensive so far to make it a good alternative to HA.

RPGreg2600 · August 2003

I still haven't used JPs yet, but from what I've read in this topic, it sounds like they took all the fun out of 'em.

I was comm playing feedwater earlier today, and I equipped about 7 JP/shotgunners and they easily took out the alien hive... I'm not quite sure the name of the hive, I always forget the name of this hive, I think it was refinery or something like that thogh.

Fantasmo · August 2003

I think of the Jetpack as more of a Jump Pack, like Showcorez described.

I do miss long sustained flight but I reckon there is a degree of inbalance when you can just hover out of bite range and HMG stuff.

Just a side note, in the three days of v2.0 I've gotten the JP once and seen it being deployed twice.

[Edit] Just thinking, if people could really hover with the v2.0 shottie... oh boy there could be some straight up ownage by accurate marines. [/Edit]

ZERG · August 2003

I agree with Lucid. They got too paranoid and ended up stacking all sorts of things against JP usage. Accurate OCs, faster hives, "jumppack", costing 15 res (only 5 less than HA), costing 35 res to research, nerfed beyond belief by heavy weapons, slower tech, absolutely useless in halls. It would be fine if they lowered the cost. People are glad that they got nerfed because of the 1.04 version of the JP. But don't you think it's a little <b>too</b> much?

TalShiar · August 2003

bah, i dont like them. ive only seen one commander handing them out, and face it in battle most people would prefer a HA as they are a heck of alot easier to manage and you wont die to a luky skulk when you touch down. the 15 res makes it so they really arent worth handing out anymore versus heavy weapons. Especially with the additional detriments when armed with heavy stuff.

Ollj · August 2003

I just had a nice furst JP game.
The JP is nerved?
ok the physics is way more realiistic, good feeling of weight. but i dont see its less powerfull than in 1.04 .
I wint play misslecommand with that, but i wontplay misslecommand in 1.04 either.

Infected_Marine · August 2003

I have to agree, I like everything about it, with the exception of cost, and if I was in charge, I would make it only a little cheaper (to buy and research), making it viable in games where the aliens really take over but the rine team is still good.

TheOne · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The biggest "boost" they gave to JPs in 1.04 is that the aliens lost their counters against them until 3-hive tech. Without acid rocket and webs, it is remarkably difficult to kill a skilled JPer who receives meds when needed. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

web acidrocket/fade = 2nd hive but nvm

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I agree with Lucid. They got too paranoid and ended up stacking all sorts of things against JP usage. Accurate OCs, faster hives, "jumppack", costing 15 res (only 5 less than HA), costing 35 res to research, nerfed beyond belief by heavy weapons, slower tech, absolutely useless in halls. It would be fine if they lowered the cost. People are glad that they got nerfed because of the 1.04 version of the JP. But don't you think it's a little too much? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
yus couldent agree more not only that hive helth has gone up and hmg clip capasity has gone down ..... apart from the HMG that the desighners couldent toutch mutch....they broke every single thing that worked in 1.04 and all the crap stuff in 1.04 like tf's and HA that was nvr used in clan games (only as an insult with just welders) have been over powered so ovcourse u only use HA and dont c mutch jp action in 2.0 ... why settle for 2nd best
i dont mind really with w00t they have done. its just the way they have labled it as "fair now" that i dont like.
the main problem with 1.04 was marine speed jps and the speed marines moved at . even if aleins camped teh res nodes u could still get jps of teh res node in base fast.

removal of bhoping (marine only) faster alein upgrades
lmg pistol slower faster hive
armory humping time up by 1/2 VS godlike aimbot oc's
techtree slower + more res for upgrades lerks now have spores to shoot at jps... (well thats useless no more jps)
breaking of the jps
haveing to reload more to take a hive down

get the impression they went a bit ott with the "Just evening it out a little"
im not gona go as far as to say the games unfair just marines DONT HAVE A CHOICE ANY MORE. variaty is the spice of life !

coil · August 2003

"Variety is the spice of life" -- 1.04, with its endless JP/HMG rushes vs. DMS chamber order, was variety? Or how about 2.0, where every upgrade chamber is viable, where marines need to use every weapon in their arsenal (including the shotgun and grenade launcher, which were frequently ignored in 1.04), where arms lab upgrades are a tempting alternative to the quick Advanced Armory and an Observatory is a commander's best friend... seems a little more varied to me, how about to you?

Here's some advice, TheOne: stop trying to play 1.04. This is 2.0 -- adapt, or lose. Welcome to Natural Selection.

Super_Sloth · August 2003

I never really liked the old JPs from a marine point of view (I consider myself a marine player, just humoring people as an alien to keep teams fair). They were more for fun and show boating then true skill, I prefered the slow, methodical destruction that HA's offered, but that's just me.

But I was given a JP in 2.0, so I began trying to fly about, half the time I just did a normal jump since for some reason the JP didn't kick in, I found it over all very clumsy to maneuver, I felt like lead as I tried to land on a rafter. Then I was trying to make it to a Hive to try and make a come back, hit the ceiling, fell into lava, an died. So my first impression of the new JP isn't actualy a raving review. They capped it's airspeed (same as a Lerk), so I don't see the problem with keeping how it functioned similiar to 1.04, but just weaken it's aspects. That would make it worth it's costs, but Aliens wouldn't have to worry with those new OCs, a few of those and they'll mow down any JP/HMG attempted rush, especially with sensory to mask everything.

Just my opinion.

Brad_R · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Big Chief Brown Bottom @ Aug 3 2003, 08:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i really didn't mind the nerf in effectiveness. hell everyone saw and knew it was coming, but why also increase the price so that for a couple of res more you can buy a heavy armor? the heavy armor is a way better buy in 2.0. they win games. jps do not. like i said before. if you're going to keep all the nerfs then the price should be lowered some  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
HA is definetly not always best. There is a time and place for each tech.

Talesin · August 2003

First impressions are one thing.. while they stayed at impressions, this was all good. But as has been said in the (now closed) S&I forums, PLEASE try playing the game for more than a few days before suggesting 'balancing' measures. I'm going to continue locking threads that spiral off into how X should be modified to balance it, until people catch the clue that they should be playing and getting used to v2.0 (NOT v1.04, or v1.1... it went up a full revision because the gameplay is SIGNIFICANTLY different) instead of trying to force it into the rut they've grown accustomed to.

<span style='color:red'>*LOCKED.*</span>

(P.S. TheOne, Web and Acid Rocket are third-Hive abilities now. Play v2.0 a little before posting about it, mmkay?)

The New Jp, First Impressions

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