Gorges!

CaLFiN

<div class="IPBDescription">Something I have noticed</div> I've noticed something that has been happening more and more in 2.0. Many people are going Gorge and dropping a chamber that <b>they</b> want without asking the team. This is highly frustrating with the first hive... In my opinion SCs are the worst thing to start with as it encourages defence rather than offence... DCs and MCs are both good for starting.

This leads me to my point. If the team are unhappy with the first chamber, they have to suffer with it until a hive is built or the game ends. In my experience with a Gorge building SCs first... it's hard to take/defend a hive with a tech'd Marine team and you lose.

The point in this post is not that I feel SC chambers are poor, it's like I said before, the Gorge builds what he wants without asking the team. This leads to the Gorge getting flamed and they usually leave the server.

I have used SCs because it is the most common example I have seen on servers. Building DCs or MCs might be a bad idea first, it all depends on what the team is trying to do and what they need to do it. Please do not reply with how you can win with sensory or how it's great/rubbish, this is irelavant to the main point.

I'm aware the exact same thing could happen in 1.0x but for the most time, there was one Gorge and he was a sort of commander. In 2.0 there are many Gorges and nobody really with any power over the team so it's more individual. In 1.0x it went DC > MC > SC about 95% of the time... Which got boring and monotonous. I like the fact that there is a choice in 2.0 but it should be the team's decision and not a player who wants SCs first.

I can't really see this stopping either. There is <i>usually</i> going to be around 3 or so Gorges on a team, most likely with their own ideas how to win the game (their own tactics, if you will.) Maybe it's just because the game is new, and they want to see what each chamber does..? I hope it is.

Anybody else agree with this or have comments? I know I haven't made any solutions to the problem, because I don't really see how it could be fixed without implanting a "listen-to-your-team-chip" in people's heads.

fo_sheezy_my_neezy

the point of 2.0 is now all chambers are equally viable, it's just like you said, for different purposes (though I don't see scent of fear as a defensive trait). I don't really see a solution to this, and I think teams will eventually just adjust their tactics to whatever the starting chamber is. Hey, on another idea, it might be fun to play (probably for a few weeks max though) with each hive starting with a randomly generated upgrade chamber. Say, you start the game, and the hive is already locked into one chamber (randomly done), and to build another chamber, you have to build another hive. I don't know. Like I said, it'd probably be fun for a few weeks.

CaLFiN

Hmmmm. Random = bad... If you managed to get a few Oni, I would imagine you would want to build a chamber that could support their needs... If it was random they might get slaughtered.

It also gives the Marine team a huge advantage and gives the Gorge almost no point at all

Cronos

I've experienced something similar.

The entire team wanted sensory, one person wanted a movement. Naturally, you make way for the team. Not this guy. He gorged and placed an MC against the wishes of the team.

Personally, I didnt care HOW good MC is as a first chamber, the team wanted a sens and they should damn well have gotten a sens.

When it comes to chambers, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Place what your team wants and not what you want.

Haze

The people I played with on Free SunnyD last night got used to movement. It was always me and two other guys throwing down the movement as quickly as possible to get silence and celerity for the skulks.

StoneMonk

No, there is really nothing you can do to stop this. It is the same as a commander farming turrets all over the place instead of going for the win, or some upgrade the marine team didnt want but the comm did (saw this a lot yesterday, I felt like a farmer instead of a soldier)

The only thing to do is to learn how to work with what you are given (all the people whining about 2.0 should heed this also), and no longer help/listen to the player that puts their own wants above the voice of the team. This person wants a healspray from someone, tough. Or protection from incoming soldiers, oh well. The comm sending you to your death every time and doing nothing to move the game forward, ignore them and join up with like minded soldiers, or eject them.

I'm not saying if you personally dont like what the comm is doing, ignore them, but if the team is trying to do something very specific (like finish the game) and the comm is not contributing to that at all, go with the team.

On a side note, I'm just not seeing the overwhelming good of MCs first over all others. I guess it may just be my playing style, but nothing about MC/?C/?C (usually D/S) strikes me as the uber-elite strat. I can take any of the orders, but to choose 1 as the best and call all others nub is caving in to a specific playing style that not everyone has, IMO

Spetz

I usually ask and most of the time when i do the team says they want MC. Depends where i play usually. Nothing you can do to stop players dropping what they feel like first. Maybe in the manual put something like "when gorging at the start of the game, ask your teammates what upgrade chamber they would like."

V_MAN

I find that most people ask for MC a lot of the time now even tho sensory is so much fun now.

wlibaers

I ask the team at the beginning of the game what they want.

If I don't get an answer, it's sensory. Why? Well, a team (well, not really) that doesn't even bother to decide on a chamber strategy probably won't care about defending gorges, and most will probably be saving for onos instead of getting restowers and hives. Which usually means I'm going to be the gorge, and I want something that can keep me hidden and help with an escape in case the marine team comes to me. Because I know the "team" won't defend.

And getting sensory does help in getting defence even when your team is mostly composed of onos freaks. Why? Well, they want kills, and those who aren't too stupid know the odds are better when they're in cloaking range. Which means I can get some skulk support after all.

Snidely

Whenever I ask the "team", I usually either get no response at all, or there's no common consensus. (I like SC first, myself.) I'd suggest that if you want to avoid it, you tell everyone at the start of the game which one you want. Don't be surprised if someone drops a chamber you don't agree with, because at the end of the day, it's their res they're using.

Necrosis

"In my experience with a Gorge building SCs first... it's hard to take/defend a hive with a tech'd Marine team and you lose"

Considering you have hive 2 in 2-3 minutes, its not as crippling as you'd imply. And at most you have to worry about is a shotgun rush, which will go through def, sens and move with equal ease.

I go sens first, and I ask the team for confirm. And so far, barring one diabolically poor game where one fade thought he could win single handed, SO FAR sensory has worked.

As gorge, consider what the team wants. If you ask sens first, and ONE person says "omgnonoDCDC" then think for a moment if he knows what he's talking about or if he, in fact, is demanding YOU build what he wouldn't.

If they don't respond to your question, build what you said you would. In the final analysis, if they want it so bad they'd build it themselves, and ultimately you are building it for the team, not for SUP3RF4D3DuD3 who coincidentally is never a fade before the second hive is up.


If, due to some cataclysm, the chamber you screamed and spammed for is not built, alter your play to incorporate the change. Throwing a tantrum over something not going your way will get you killed. And will get the team killed. If you cannot use a certain tower, reconsider your current class or your gameplay. If you rely on celerity to win, you need help.

Gorges looking for more tips should go to the 2-3 threads in kharaa strategy, where you'll find more team orientated comment.

wlibaers

What's missing in many cases is a strong commitment to one chamber. Once you start with one, you have to use it until the second hive goes up, so exploit it as much as possible. This is especially true for sensory, once one of them is placed, the rest should follow soon near every important point on the map.

Epidemic

SC is a really good chamber to start with (as much as the others)
Reason? = SoF

Diablus

actually ive been seeing LESS and LESS of sensory chambers being dropped at hive 1, usually the main lineup is movm then D or vise vera, sens usually goes back to hive 3

Stakhanov

Someone suggested a vote for the upgrade chamber , it might be interesting to have this in the alien menu (to be continued under the Voice menu , not sure) so that everyone can vote without wasting time typing and arguing. Most votes forces 1rst and 2nd hive chambers (only works if there is an unused hive upgrade slot) , tie cancels the vote.

Rotten_Flesh

Here's a possible solution for this problem.

Make a metamod plugin (or adminmod) that starts a vote when someone gorges, on what will be built first. It blocks all the impulse commands for the chambers untill the vote passes, then blocks the other 2 impulses so only the chamber voted on can be built.

BlackMage

and if within 30 seconds nobody votes ... well nothing happens and the gorge is free to upgrade at will

Necrosis

Does anyone have to follow the vote?

And what happens if the vote is tied for any length of time?

And finally, what about the difference between pub play and clan play?

In pub servers I've seen DC/MC first ONCE.

IMHO rather than vote, the fade-rushers might want to consider capping res towers or some other constructive activity.

lolfighter

I think the idea with the metamod plugin is a good one. That, or code it into on of the upcoming beta releases of 2.01, with the option to turn it on and off. I see my share of SC- and DC-first games, with MC usually being the third chamber. This is sad, considering how cool a chamber the MC actually is, and to date I've never seen a game with MC first. Votes might not change that, but at least I'd be sure the team was getting what the team wants.
I feel like plopping down an MC first sometime, but I don't want to annoy my fellow aliens.

CaLFiN

I like the idea for a vote...

Remember, this post isn't about which chamber you like best (which some people have been doing <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)

Clint

I usually start with the "SC" if I gorge at all on the kharaa side.

Rotten_Flesh

I started a thread at modNS in request section:

<a href='http://www.modns.org/viewtopic.php?t=220' target='_blank'>http://www.modns.org/viewtopic.php?t=220</a>

Middle_Finger_of_Death

That's why I have binded to "P" teamsay "WHAT KIND OF CHAMBER DO YOU PEOPLE WANT FIRST?" and get a general consensus. All caps, if no reply, I spam a few times. Gets the job done. Very well, might I add.