Teamwork Vs. Coordination
Monkeybonk
Join Date: 2003-08-04 Member: 18859Banned
Join Date: 2003-08-04 Member: 18859Banned
<div class="IPBDescription">MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!</div> Here's a general summary of everything I hear on these boards.
"Aliens are underpowered. This isn't fair."
"That alien is not underpowered, you n00b. Maybe you should try it with lerk support while gorges bilebomb and an onos devours HA."
---
"How do I counter (Marine Tactic)?"
"It's easy you n00b. Try lerk support with gorges to cover your skulks."
--- --- ---
"Marines are underpowered againt (alien). This isn't fair."
"Dude, you n00b, just us a (Insert gun name)."
---
"How do marines counter (Alien Tactic)?"
"Just use (Insert gun/equipment combo)."
---
What's the difference? What's the point of this post? Why do I care? Why is the sky blue?
ALIENS ARE SUPPOSED TO REQUIRE LESS TEAMWORK THEN THE MARINES.
Let's get two things straight here:
Teamwork: Having multiple people working to cover each others weaknesses. A lerk provides umbra because the onos tends to catch a lot of bullets.
Coordination: Having multiple people working fairly independently, but for the common goal. The marines are coordinated because they stick together.
<b><i>SO WHY IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT ISHOLY</i></b> do I keep hearing these half-assed, rediculous, absurd, and impractical "Tactics" for the aliens offered? Perfect example:
Fades are a waste of 50 resources. They're weak, they underperform... a skulk is pretty much as good as a fade is.
The response: Dude, use a fade to distract the marines while skulks go in and attack. Also, get a lerk to provide umbra support.
<b>What's wrong with this picture</b>
First of all, you're NEVER EVER IN YOUR LIFETIME going to be able to organize an assault like that. Secondly, the assault will take a long time to get together and execute, and finally, it will accomplish very little! Fades should be able to rip marines up on their own. However, every post about Fades that says they're justified implies that I need to have 1/2 my team helping me attack 1/4 of the marine team.
What about marines?
The commander tells you what to do. He also tells other people what to do. You follow them. Good boy. Some people build the resource tower, and maybe you'll cover for them.
That isn't teamwork. It's organized, certainly, and someone organized it for you, but they're just moving as a group. If an alien shows up they all blast it or they all die. There are no support roles, there are no 'heavy weapons guys' that move slower and can only be effective against a certain target. Every gun can basically perform every task needed.
Now tell me: What needs more teamwork?
The aliens, who have no effective counter to ANYTHING in the game: Uh oh, jetpacking shotgun rush. Quick, get lerks to spore cloud, your gorges to deploy webs and distract them as the fades blink up to the ceiling and swipe at them. (I know it's rediculous and wouldn't work, but that's all I hear on these forums)
Or the marines, whose counter basically involves: Pick up that gun I gave you and shoot it. Wall of Lame? Here's a GL. Onos? Here's a shotgun. Lerk? Here's an HMG. They're simple to use, hop to it soldier.
It's gotten to the point where I make a joke of it:
"How do I do this!"
"Okay, ALL YOU NEED TO DO is get your lerks to provide primal scream, so that the onos can run in. On his back are your gorges, and they all jump over the turrets and build sensory chambers. The sensory chambers cover for the fades who blink around and distract marines so the skulks can climb in on the ceiling and leap-kill everything. It's easy, you're a n00b, learn more tactics. S&I was closed for a reason."
"Aliens are underpowered. This isn't fair."
"That alien is not underpowered, you n00b. Maybe you should try it with lerk support while gorges bilebomb and an onos devours HA."
---
"How do I counter (Marine Tactic)?"
"It's easy you n00b. Try lerk support with gorges to cover your skulks."
--- --- ---
"Marines are underpowered againt (alien). This isn't fair."
"Dude, you n00b, just us a (Insert gun name)."
---
"How do marines counter (Alien Tactic)?"
"Just use (Insert gun/equipment combo)."
---
What's the difference? What's the point of this post? Why do I care? Why is the sky blue?
ALIENS ARE SUPPOSED TO REQUIRE LESS TEAMWORK THEN THE MARINES.
Let's get two things straight here:
Teamwork: Having multiple people working to cover each others weaknesses. A lerk provides umbra because the onos tends to catch a lot of bullets.
Coordination: Having multiple people working fairly independently, but for the common goal. The marines are coordinated because they stick together.
<b><i>SO WHY IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT ISHOLY</i></b> do I keep hearing these half-assed, rediculous, absurd, and impractical "Tactics" for the aliens offered? Perfect example:
Fades are a waste of 50 resources. They're weak, they underperform... a skulk is pretty much as good as a fade is.
The response: Dude, use a fade to distract the marines while skulks go in and attack. Also, get a lerk to provide umbra support.
<b>What's wrong with this picture</b>
First of all, you're NEVER EVER IN YOUR LIFETIME going to be able to organize an assault like that. Secondly, the assault will take a long time to get together and execute, and finally, it will accomplish very little! Fades should be able to rip marines up on their own. However, every post about Fades that says they're justified implies that I need to have 1/2 my team helping me attack 1/4 of the marine team.
What about marines?
The commander tells you what to do. He also tells other people what to do. You follow them. Good boy. Some people build the resource tower, and maybe you'll cover for them.
That isn't teamwork. It's organized, certainly, and someone organized it for you, but they're just moving as a group. If an alien shows up they all blast it or they all die. There are no support roles, there are no 'heavy weapons guys' that move slower and can only be effective against a certain target. Every gun can basically perform every task needed.
Now tell me: What needs more teamwork?
The aliens, who have no effective counter to ANYTHING in the game: Uh oh, jetpacking shotgun rush. Quick, get lerks to spore cloud, your gorges to deploy webs and distract them as the fades blink up to the ceiling and swipe at them. (I know it's rediculous and wouldn't work, but that's all I hear on these forums)
Or the marines, whose counter basically involves: Pick up that gun I gave you and shoot it. Wall of Lame? Here's a GL. Onos? Here's a shotgun. Lerk? Here's an HMG. They're simple to use, hop to it soldier.
It's gotten to the point where I make a joke of it:
"How do I do this!"
"Okay, ALL YOU NEED TO DO is get your lerks to provide primal scream, so that the onos can run in. On his back are your gorges, and they all jump over the turrets and build sensory chambers. The sensory chambers cover for the fades who blink around and distract marines so the skulks can climb in on the ceiling and leap-kill everything. It's easy, you're a n00b, learn more tactics. S&I was closed for a reason."
Comments
Individual resource pool promotes ramboing, does it not? Individual upgrades, etc.
And then, people throw all this **** around saying that the best tactics involve attacking when the planets align.
Marines are SUPPOSED to be the team that requires teamwork.
Teamwork for the marines is pathetic. It is so 'deep' that it is simple as 'follow him and shoot at what he shoots'.
Someone tell me the best tactic to counter HAs without onos redemption (since it's probably going in 2.01).
teamwork.
teamwork helps, no matter what flayra does, teamwork will help. a lot. with teamwork any team of any equipment in ANY GAME will do better than it would without teamwork.
now, see, if flayra balances unorganized aliens and organized marines, then some clan decides that with practice they can organize aliens, they are always gonna win, because it takes the balanced unorganized team and makes them better.
now who is up to the task of balancing teamwork with non teamwork? how is such a thing possible? why with this weird resource system, flayra can make the better aliens better alone, thus making pubbers thing they dont need teamwork.
okay maybe they dont need it, but if they did learn to use it, they would destroy the world... so the game had to be rebalanced with a semi organized (lerk+skulk+gorge three man team) versus an organized marine team. depending on the levels of alien coordination, the game will now appear unbalanced in either team's favor.
i dont ahve a solution here, but i hope i explained your problem in an understandable way.
Someone tell me the best tactic to counter HAs without onos redemption (since it's probably going in 2.01). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know...maybe HA's are supposed to win in this case? But instead we see never ending stalemates. Something is wrong with that picture. I think the stalemate issue has to be cracked, since as it is teched-up marines can withstand aliens who have conquered the whole map, for a very very long time on one node.
That's not the point, it was an example.
Some REAL tidbits I've found:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lerks umbra gorges, that bile bomb, and the onos goes in with umbra cover as well<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you're eithe going to need umbra support or other melee aliens to create chaos and spread out the damage.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For a 'rambo' team, why do they need 8 other teammates to counter 4 marines with shotguns in a turret nest?
Someone tell me the best tactic to counter HAs without onos redemption (since it's probably going in 2.01). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know...maybe HA's are supposed to win in this case? But instead we see never ending stalemates. Something is wrong with that picture. I think the stalemate issue has to be cracked, since as it is teched-up marines can withstand aliens who have conquered the whole map, for a very very long time on one node. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was expecting a half-**** "tactic" that says:
"Get a fade to blink in and harass the HA while a lerk sprays him with umbra. While they're fighting the fade, 4 skulks xeno at the same time and the fade runs away. Then the onos stomps them and they all parasite kill them."
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->thers a big flaw here.
teamwork.
teamwork helps, no matter what flayra does, teamwork will help. a lot. with teamwork any team of any equipment in ANY GAME will do better than it would without teamwork.
now, see, if flayra balances unorganized aliens and organized marines, then some clan decides that with practice they can organize aliens, they are always gonna win, because it takes the balanced unorganized team and makes them better.
now who is up to the task of balancing teamwork with non teamwork? how is such a thing possible? why with this weird resource system, flayra can make the better aliens better alone, thus making pubbers thing they dont need teamwork.
okay maybe they dont need it, but if they did learn to use it, they would destroy the world... so the game had to be rebalanced with a semi organized (lerk+skulk+gorge three man team) versus an organized marine team. depending on the levels of alien coordination, the game will now appear unbalanced in either team's favor.
i dont ahve a solution here, but i hope i explained your problem in an understandable way. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Point taken, but marines are MEANT to be teamworky, aliens aren't. But marines don't have teamwork: It's all 1 sided. Medics? Nope, don't need them, we have the commander. Resources for the team? Comm just give me a big gun and I can farm as many as we need. If the marines were MEANT to require teamwork, why do they have NO support class? Why don't they have any of these limited weapon choices the aliens have?
The response: Dude, use a fade to distract the marines while skulks go in and attack. Also, get a lerk to provide umbra support.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not only for distraction and they can be quite good at that, their swipe does <b>10</b> dmg less than the onos' gore, they can quickly move out of combat and regenerate if you have 2 hives.
AMEN brother. Im getting SO sick of all the 1 guy gorges for 3 minutes and builds 3.5 restowers and then goes skulk while the other guy goes back to gorg......
3 skulks rush 4 HA/HMGs but two jink right sacraficing the third guy while 2 fades in waiting blink in for 2 seconds swipe twice and the leave while the other two skulks xeno, which will blast the HA/HMG into the moths of 2 oni waiting by the cloaked ST while lerks alternate in spamming Umbra and the gorges go for distence heal sprays.........
FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD MAKE IT STOP!
I miss being able to go fade, take regen and then kill a lite marine. I miss having a fighting chance of being able to kill a ramboing HA/HMG. I LIKED when blink actualy kicked **** but yet required skill.
I miss lerking and being able to dive bomb a marine and bit his head off and then run off only to spike his buddy
I miss skulks standing a holy chance in hell aginst marines and turrets
I miss being a com and having to put up a good fight in order to win aginst a GOOD team (with out JP rush)
Please. PLEASE chill out onos, beef up the fades, return gorges to support andmake it so that Lerk is no longer the "Green Wizard"
Aliens <i>do</i> need teamwork, just <b>not as much</b> as the Marines.
Listen. Yes, the Alien team doesn't need as much teamwork to succeed. That doesn't mean they don't need ZERO teamwork. You <i>can</i> try to Rambo into the base with Celerity or something, and chew away at one single turret every single time, but isn't it better to have 6 people chomping on the base? Come on.