Mapping Ns_nothing

0SdZ0Gectou4 · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">brush is "seperat"</div> Why ... another ?

I'am crying <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

after ns_caged is ns_nothing <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Maveric · August 2003

its a mapper's trick to reduce w_poly cuts, and thus increase your FPS w/o the use of a entity called a func_wall that...
*everyone looks like <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> *
...

its supposed to look that way so your game runs smoother. jeez...

Machiavelli · August 2003

Large brushs like that wall support are often moved 1 unit (the smallest amount they can) off of large brushs like that wall. This prevents the support from breaking the big wall brush into many smaller brushs that would look the same, but cause r_speeds to go up. While the mapper could turn the support into a func_wall entity so it wouldn't spinter the other brushs, however, in NS mappers need to keep their entity counts as low as they can, because so many entities are used by the game (the buildings) so thats why you see the gap there.

Ollj · August 2003

you might have noticed all maps changed for better performace by removing doors and optimizing many places r_speeds

BigD · August 2003

Usually, part of the trick is to make it as unnoticeable as possible. This is done by making it very dark, putting stuff around it or at an angle where you can't get a very good look at it. This kind of "engineering" seperates NS maps from good ol'Halflife deathmatch maps. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

PS: On the subject of removing doors for performance reasons... I think the removal of EVERY SINGLE DOOR (and the elevators) on Tanith was a bit toooooooo much. It really looks bare to me now. And it removes the element of "what's waiting behind dooooooor number 3 today?" Don'tcha think? Sure the weldable door by Fusion Hive (from cargo) was never used before... and maybe a couple for upped performance... but all of it...?
Anyone think the (hopefully quite uber) performance increase was worth it?

Zyndrome · August 2003

Could have just made that object into a func_wall , since entities does not cut up the bsp.

Parasite · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zyndrome @ Aug 10 2003, 07:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Could have just made that object into a func_wall , since entities does not cut up the bsp.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Not really...entities are limited in NS mapping, if he may have been near limits...

If it were me, I woulda just placed it flush with the wall and took the poly hit unless it added an ungodly amount.
The other supports are ok fine when not flush with the wall because theres no way for a player to see it, but on the corner like that is another story.

And to the topic starter...This is at least the second time people here have answered your (same exact) question, yet you dont seem to understand or care. If you arent actually interested in why maps have these "problems" stop posting about it just to complain.

Asraniel · August 2003

explain that a little bit more. I always thought that a entity wihout a name doesent count for the entity count.. does it?
I have around 400 entitys in my map(399, because the max is 400), is this bad? I mean, there are all func_walls or func_illussionarys, i only have a few doors(3) and 2 weldables.. that shouldnt be problem i think.

0SdZ0Gectou4 · August 2003

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> i know but is too bad for the mod

that denatures its serious

Insane · August 2003

Oh come now, it's not that bad. If anything, it's a sign that the mapper knows what he's doing. And Ken and Andrew certainly know what they are doing. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

watch_me_die · August 2003

having that support against the wall wouldn't add many polys, just looks like he's misaligned it

Vyvn · August 2003

Check any map for any mod that includes a bunch of crates lying around. Go into noclip mode and fly around the base of the crates. I guarantee that you will find that many, many crates, and similar small objects, are actually floating 1 unit above the ground. This is for the same reason, and is all about decreasing the poly count. It is necesitated by the age of the engine, and says nothing negative about the quality of the map.

KungFuSquirrel · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([0]SdZ[0]Gectou4 @ Aug 10 2003, 05:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> i know but is too bad for the mod

that denatures its serious  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Please. If something like that actually holds weight in your overall opinion of the mod...

There's no way in hell that was "mis-aligned" - I don't know a single person who actually works on anything smaller than a 4 unit grid for anything but detail work - and most I know stick to 8 or 16. Due to map limitations and other considerations in effect, it was done that way. Deal with it. It's not shoddy design, it's not incompetence, and in fact it's quite the opposite. Well done on Ken's part for making it work.

Silencer9 · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Machiavelli @ Aug 10 2003, 03:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Large brushs like that wall support are often moved 1 unit (the smallest amount they can) off of large brushs like that wall. This prevents the support from breaking the big wall brush into many smaller brushs that would look the same, but cause r_speeds to go up. While the mapper could turn the support into a func_wall entity so it wouldn't spinter the other brushs, however, in NS mappers need to keep their entity counts as low as they can, because so many entities are used by the game (the buildings) so thats why you see the gap there. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
1 Unit, that is true, it is the smallest!! But here is my idea in a picture, hope you understand it!
On the left side you see how it is, on the right my version!!! It is with vertex manipulation, to make it looking smaller than 1 unit!! And yes, both things are from top, i think only mappers will understand this clearly....

Chrono · August 2003

all i know is you must be really bored with the game to be crawling on the floor looking at the corner of a wall jeez just play the game if you dont notice it while blasting some aliens then its not a problem

Parasite · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([0]SdZ[0]Gectou4 @ Aug 10 2003, 11:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> i know but is too bad for the mod

that denatures its serious  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Ya know what...play games that are newer than 5 years old if it bothers you that much.
Its Half Life for crissakes.

ANeM · August 2003

NS_nothing has a few oddities, as do many maps, but it doesn't matter unless you have OCD or something.
I mean, there is a hole to oblivion in Cargo, Just a little, non-textured triangle, but that doesn't matter, because all the textures around it blend to make it seem like its not there when you first look.
I only found it when I was playing on some weird Japanese server at 4am, EVERYONE was ramboing, the comm turret farmed to hell and I couldn't understand anything.. so I stared at the the floor and there it was.
Does it matter that there is a floating block? No.
Does it matter that there is a hole to oblivion? No, as long as Cthulhu doesn't climb out.
It happens. Either because the flaw is too small to notice in comparison to the rest of the huge, detailed map, or it keeps the map playable on lower end computers. it happens.

Olmy · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ollj @ Aug 9 2003, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> you might have noticed all maps changed for better performace by removing doors and optimizing many places r_speeds  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I've generally heard from people's reactions to 2.0 that their fps has dropped considerably. Mine has dropped from 100 to an average of 70.

Insane · August 2003

Most of the optimisation to 2.0 was serverside rather than clientside. I'm rather suprised to hear that 2.0 performs worse for some people, because it seems to perform better on my machine.

Olmy · August 2003

what video mode are you using? i'm using open gl? could that be why?

Insane · August 2003

No, I'm using openGL too.

Dubbilex · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-[FD]-Silencer @ Aug 10 2003, 04:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Machiavelli @ Aug 10 2003, 03:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Large brushs like that wall support are often moved 1 unit (the smallest amount they can) off of large brushs like that wall. This prevents the support from breaking the big wall brush into many smaller brushs that would look the same, but cause r_speeds to go up. While the mapper could turn the support into a func_wall entity so it wouldn't spinter the other brushs, however, in NS mappers need to keep their entity counts as low as they can, because so many entities are used by the game (the buildings) so thats why you see the gap there. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
1 Unit, that is true, it is the smallest!! But here is my idea in a picture, hope you understand it!
On the left side you see how it is, on the right my version!!! It is with vertex manipulation, to make it looking smaller than 1 unit!! And yes, both things are from top, i think only mappers will understand this clearly....  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
We understand....but does it really matter to you guys that much? It's an incredibly simplistic trick that maximizes results.

of course, mapping nub that I am, I neither use Cagey's tools OR separate large brushes from the wall when I map. Perhaps this is because I don't actually <i>plan</i> on releasing anything <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

NerdIII · August 2003

Hey, I'm sure if you switched to D3D, Edgecrusher, you would have 30 FPS now. I've heard people say so <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>
No really, I think removing all these doors for 'performance' reasons is laughable. NS 2.0 really increased the entity count by allowing turret spam and servers crash more often than on 1.0 with all its bug. This was really not thought out well imo. If you know the engine can only handle 1024 active entities why would you make buildings even cheaper??? Flayra even did something about the spawns so they don't count to the entities if I remember correctly, but the new gameplay makes all those optimizations useless <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

RaVe · August 2003

If I have a problem with ns_nothing,it wouldnt be that

It would be Onos goring me in midair at Marine Start while flying around with a Jetpack,and I thought marine start areas were supposed to be marine friendly??(Veil comes to mind,the catwalk is troublesome for Onos to get in)

But then again there's the small catwalk that you can stay in,Onos can't get there <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Mapping Ns_nothing

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