[QUOTE]it feels like im paying 50 res for a bigger skulk
Yes i think fades r underpowered.
Old blink ruled (it actually was teleportation). This new cheap rip off blink is just a stupid accelerator!!!!!!!
The acid rocket in 1.0 was awesum!!! U could shoot sum1 and miss and still kill them <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The new and uber shotguns and hmgs like rip u apart in less than a sec!!!
The swipe is like a slower bite!!!
OMG with legs longer than a girrafes ud think this thing could outrun a speeding horse!!! It moves like a rhino!!!!
I think it's hard to say if fades are good or not. In the somewhat early game the pwn everything, but if the marines get some shotguns and upgrades they can waste a fade very fast. Later in the game acid rocket works somewhat well (esp. if the tides are just starting to turn for the aliens or they're already winning). But, of course, fades are hit and run to they're not meant to take too much damage (they do have metabolize).
About them being underused...I don't think they are that much. In the server I play (sig) they are usually used almost every game if a good amount of the regulars are in the server. I do think they could be used a bit more. The reason they're not used as much is because it takes a good amount of skill to use them. But when they're used to perfection (I've seen it before) they can kick major arse. It seems the lerk is getting ever more popular. Lastly, usually in a game close to an alien victory there are 2 or 3 onos (however you make it plural), some lerks and a gorge or two. When someone dies they go xenocide or bite like mad.
A halfway competent fade is always always always worth one light marine, no matter what upgrades he has and what gun he's porting.
Fades are available at three minutes thirty seconds - get 4-6 kills and you can go fade. They can, alone, slaughter groups of 3-6 LMG marines. A group of four shotguns can be delayed by a single fade almost indefinitely.
My problem with the fade is that the fifty res investment has *one* offensive attack until the third hive, while the free has three by hive two and the ten and thirty res investments have two attacks by hive one. (even the 100 res investment has two attacks at hive one.)
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin--kavasa+Sep 4 2003, 05:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kavasa @ Sep 4 2003, 05:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A halfway competent fade is always always always worth one light marine, no matter what upgrades he has and what gun he's porting.
Fades are available at three minutes thirty seconds - get 4-6 kills and you can go fade. They can, alone, slaughter groups of 3-6 LMG marines. A group of four shotguns can be delayed by a single fade almost indefinitely.
And you people want them <i>buffed?</i>
What in the world. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I dont believe you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't think anybody with experience playing as or against a good Fade wants them buffed. There's a large difference between underused and underpowered.
The only real issue I have with the Fade is metabolize and regeneration not stacking.
True, but I take cara and adren, so I don't mind so much <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for "one offensive attack", blinking and slashing will yield more effective results. I can blink into base, take out a turret or rine (or rines <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and then blink out. With cara they do little damage, and once you've blinked past two corners you can meta with adren. Hell, with adren you can blink back to most hives in a matter of seconds.
I can tear apart groups of LA's as a <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> but when HA comes along i find im better off going onos, lerk, or gorge.
Its just takes quite a bit to bring down just one but when they move in trains your dead once your out of blink ready to swipe.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
*Sigh*
SoulSkorpion & I went through this HEAVILY in 1.x. The only 1.x players who cry about the Fade now, are the ones who acid spammed. Sorry, you've lost your UT rocket launcher.
The Fade is a killing machine, the only reason the nubs die is because it now requires timing & foresight. You now have to <i>think</i>. That little mush in your cranium has to be engaged when you spend those 50 blobs of Nano goo.
Melee Fade is fine. The Fade itself is fine. The only thing I wish is the Fade had a better use for Acid Rocket, because if it were moved to 2nd hive, we're back to acid spammers, but as it stands it simply isn't as good as the other Hive 3 abilities, and it certainly doesn't need improving.
Possibly acid could do less damage (or do massive damage, but only to armour because it's acid?), but cause view disorientation? Thus giving the Fade a reason to acid on the way in, but leaving the claws as the main way of despatching enemies?
Remember that tiny little S&I rule where suggestions that distort or impair a players view or hearing would be ignored (ie anything along the lines of a CS flashbang grenade)...
Ok sure Onos devour borders on breaking this rule, but it's still ok since even if you COULD see you wouldn't be able to defend yourself, so the digestion screen doesn't actually disadvantage you any more than usual.
SoulSkorpion & I went through this HEAVILY in 1.x. The only 1.x players who cry about the Fade now, are the ones who acid spammed. Sorry, you've lost your UT rocket launcher.
The Fade is a killing machine, the only reason the nubs die is because it now requires timing & foresight. You now have to <i>think</i>. That little mush in your cranium has to be engaged when you spend those 50 blobs of Nano goo.
Melee Fade is fine. The Fade itself is fine. The only thing I wish is the Fade had a better use for Acid Rocket, because if it were moved to 2nd hive, we're back to acid spammers, but as it stands it simply isn't as good as the other Hive 3 abilities, and it certainly doesn't need improving.
Possibly acid could do less damage (or do massive damage, but only to armour because it's acid?), but cause view disorientation? Thus giving the Fade a reason to acid on the way in, but leaving the claws as the main way of despatching enemies?
In fact.....
*Trots to S&I* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I grew rather fond of redemption/celerity fade in 1.04. Both for the ability to suicide rush outposts and to take down marines, rarely ever did I bother to acid spam since the blink deep into outposts/marine base and start slashing until you redeemed, then heal up and blink back was a heck of a lot more efficient and fun.
Well, maybe it's just that I haven't mastered the new fade yet. I have to admit I haven't toyed around with it much. I liked the old blink a heck of a lot better and the fades seems to die easier too now. Maybe it's just because I haven't experimented with it that much now, but every time I frantically try to blink out from an attack somewhere, I keep bumping into every damn thing on the way. *chuckle*
That said, I don't care about the acid rocket. What I want is something which is a bit better than metabolize at hive 2, preferably an offensive type or a marine debuff, perhaps. (yeah, yeah, blink to a hive if you need healing. It's not like you move at the speed of a webbed crouching marine.)
Fades, The walking wall. I tend to find them only useful with 3 hives. And I still even with 3 hives do more damage with a lerk then I would ever do with fades. In my opinion fades just get shot and run away to heal. They need some DEFENITE ups. Maybe Acid rocket more damage? Or acid rocket = third metabolize = 4th. Maybe acid rocket taking up way less energy. (Rite now acid rocket sucks, sure if you got half-hour on your hands you can acid a rocket a turret to death... and thats with adrenaline.)
Part of Fades dying easier is because of the Kharaa armor fix. In the 1.0X versions, alien armor would negate a certain amount of damage. I don't remember how much exactly, but fixing the armor is why Skulks don't take 19 LMG rounds to kill and why Onos and Fades go down faster.
Acid rocket isn't that great of a three hive ability. It's not that different from the one hive ability that it used to be. Metabolize isn't that great of an ability either. It was put in because the first version of metabolize was very buggy and frequently resulted in invincible Fades. It was changed to the slow and noisy heal ability that the Fade has now.
Fades have a nice niche in the anti-personnel department and I'd like to keep them that way. I like Shockwaves idea about making acid rocket an anti-armor weapon and leaving slash as the way to kill. The trouble is, that's what I did in 1.04. AR spam a group, blink in and make with the slashy-slashy. I never like being relegated to "melee" or "ranged" Fade groups. AR and slash/blink complement each other, they aren't mutually exclusive.
Fades can't really be made more powerful right now. If you make them powerful and easy to use for your average pubber, they'll see a <i>ton</i> of abuse in clans that are already capable of using a single Fade to stop marine expansion. Even on pubs that have a higher caliber of player, you see Fades dominating marines well before any Onos has a chance to make an appearance.
I think the new fade is abit more balanced.. The only thing i would change is maybe fix the melee range. A skulk bites with teeth.. a fade has large preying mantis like arms, and his range is = to shoving your face into someone.. that just isnt right.
As for acid rockets.. they just arnt worthy of the 3rd hive ability. I say give fades bile bomb back! and give gorges the acid rockets! This seems more viable to me, then a fade could blink into a vent and bile, blink out, swipe swipe, run and metabolise.
<!--QuoteBegin--Trojan2+Aug 10 2003, 06:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trojan2 @ Aug 10 2003, 06:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As a marine player (only since v2 came out) I love the new fades. I love the feeling of wasting a 50 res evolution with my little LMG and then getting 1-3 res for my team to boot! Once lev 2-3 guns are up I can take them on and win more often then not (and if I lose so what, You got 1-3 res yeah great!) I love fighting em down corridors where I can kill them while there blinking (got to love that weak new blink) Swipe works like a slower bite and fades make for a much easer target then a skulk. Once HMGs and upgraded LMGs show up I can engauge them with confadence knowing that unless there lucky or catch me on the reload im probley going to win.
When I play aleins I find that I get more kills with a skulk then just about any fades players. Leap plus celerity means im going to move the map nearly as fast, Bite does the same damage and my hit box is MUCH smaller then a fade. That along with the fact a teched up skulk cost 6 res compared to 56 for a fade, why even have fades in the game? Now v1.4 fades where a different story. Old blink was with out a doubt the best power in the game in the hands of a pro. Fades had ALOT more stand up power and had acid rocket for busting up turret farms and softening tight groups of marines before you blinked behind them for the kill. Not only that they dident have those retardo gimp-claws that the new fades has <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you play against some really stupid fades.
Trust me, if a fade blinks well, he'll be very very hard to hit.
Fades are only good if you know what you are doing. IMO your attack method should depend on your upgrades.
Adrenaline/Regeneration/Scent of Fear Fade
Great for taking out res towers and turret farms. Also you must use the hit and run tactic, especially if you dont have acid rocket yet. I usually play with my prey before I go for the kill as fade. I blink around to confuse the marine and end up behind him and stick him. With acid rocket I stay back as far as possible to avoid the accuracy of HMGs and shotttys of close range.
This is where the fun comes in. Blink around the level and when you hear those marine footsteps, stop so you can cloak then hold shift so you can walk cloaked (2.01d only) then you can walk right up to their face and they still wont see you. Slash em up and they will never even hear or see what him them. I have TONS of fun with this method and you can easily ambush marines in groups too (don't forget the hit and run method).
The new blink is great IMO because its not choppy and you don't get stuck like in 1.04. Metabolize comes in handy so you can get carapace or redemption and still be able to heal, but I still like regeneration better because you heal while still in combat. The adjustments made to acid rocket seem fair enough and if you are skilled enough you can kill just as easily with it now as in 1.04.
And to reply to the first post...Fade is by far my FAVORITE alien form. Once mastered it can do as much damage as the Onos.
Yes from what I've seen fades are massively underused in Pubs. I've played a good few 2.01d games and have been seeing some very quick expansion from the marines. With marines matching aliens almost res for res but with elec RT's. This has resulted in quite a few marine wins as the RT's are very hard to take down...
...except with fades.
The main thing I noticed in games where marines lost with this strat was fades. 2-3 Fades can clear the map of elec RT's in minutes and can very effectively stop marine expansion.
3 fades around a PG? No way are ANY marines coming through and they can take it down quick enough to make turrets only a small worry.
Lone fading is OK but fade groups are even better!
However I do find 2 hives, MC + DC is when fades come into thier own.
It isn't just a bigger skulk, it is a bigger skulk that can heal itself, fly like superman, and soak up bullets like a sponge.
Although I think slash should have an advantage over bite, and acid rocket should do something more... better splash radius or something.
With the power of fades, any unguarded base or res node will die quickly even with turrets. So marines have to choose to guard a base or lose it. But if they are guarding all their bases they are not attacking or scouting. So aliens just group up and take out bases 1 by 1.
If marines try a mass attack, fades can take out their undefended expansions and still blink back in time to defend the hive.
Fade rushes freak people out. Especially when they start spamming blink <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I prefer the Cara Adren fade (with cloak or SoF, game depending) and stick to the hit n run doctrine.
Cara gives that added resistance, and adren allows rapid metabolise after a blink escape. Very rarely do I die, and it usually involves point blank shotties, mines, or siege hit when near a chamber.
Staying alive isnt the goal, of course, but less deaths mean more time harassing the enemy. I might not rack up the kills but I can pin down people very effectively.
Well, as for the topic of this post, yes, <i>fades are underused</i>...
What I really want to know, is how these "good" fade players take out 2 or 3 marines with shotties...
To tell you the truth, I can't remember the last time I was killed by a fade. 3 shottie blasts are enough to kill a fade, and a fade is a big target... If I ever see a fade, it is more of a free kill to me unless I don't have another person near me (which is basically never, unless I have a jetpack). Fades are underpowered. I was dedicated to fade in 1.4, but now in 2.0, I don't think 50 res is worth it. Waiting for 100 res is a much better investment. An onos to me, is about 3 or 4 times as good of an investment.
Fades aren't useless... but there really should be a maximum of one per team. The only real use for fade is to take out light solo marines. Even 2 or 3 decent marines with lmg's will tear a fade apart. They just have too little health.
LOL, yeah, from re-reading my own stuff I can see how fades are usefull. In pub servers, half of the marine team doesn't listen, and go off on their own... lol.. easy fade prey. BUT STILL, PLEASE INFORM ME ON HOW TO KILL MORE THAN A SOLO MARINE!
I know you say this whole blink/slash thing is how... but... blink doesnt make you dissapear like it used too, so getting to my back is very hard, considering I can see, and shoot you, the whole time your blinking. If your going against me, you will also run into another teammate of mine. If you dont fall from our lmg clips, you surely will from both our pistol clips. Generally my pistol clips come first... but anyhow, again, most of our bullets will hit you. Thats more damage than a fade can handle.
And in a worst case scenerio... we dont kill you with our clips. While your killing one guy, the other will reload and kill you. So you can kill one guy in total. That's 1 res to the marine team if we had lmgs... and 50 for yourself... That really doesnt compare. And if we had shotguns... you would die before you could get one slash in to one of us.
Again, I'm not saying that fade are useless, I'm saying there not usefull enough to spend 50 res on if your against a decent marine team with aim. They are fine for most pubs with wandering marines...
As I mentioned above, I can't remember the last time I fell to a fade in 2.0, maybe I haven't been up against those "amazing fade players" who take on 2 or 3 marines by themselves.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> LOL, yeah, from re-reading my own stuff I can see how fades are usefull. In pub servers, half of the marine team doesn't listen, and go off on their own... lol.. easy fade prey. BUT STILL, PLEASE INFORM ME ON HOW TO KILL MORE THAN A SOLO MARINE!
I know you say this whole blink/slash thing is how... but... blink doesnt make you dissapear like it used too, so getting to my back is very hard, considering I can see, and shoot you, the whole time your blinking. If your going against me, you will also run into another teammate of mine. If you dont fall from our lmg clips, you surely will from both our pistol clips. Generally my pistol clips come first... but anyhow, again, most of our bullets will hit you. Thats more damage than a fade can handle.
And in a worst case scenerio... we dont kill you with our clips. While your killing one guy, the other will reload and kill you. So you can kill one guy in total. That's 1 res to the marine team if we had lmgs... and 50 for yourself... That really doesnt compare. And if we had shotguns... you would die before you could get one slash in to one of us. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm, chortle, I wish you could explain more, again, I'm not trying to say fades suck, I'm trying to figure out how you can kill a small group of marines. If you have upgrades, then the marines will also have had time to get upgrades, so its usually a pretty even battle.
Fades have their usefullness, but not as much as an onos does. In 1.4, fades were much more usefull, may not be as good or worse, but I think they were more usefull. Especially with the carapace upgrade that effected you more...
Going gorge: 10 res 3 MC's: 30 res 3 RT's: 45 res 1 Hive: 35res (or 40) 3 DC's: 30 res
Being able to remove elec RT's with ease: Priceless Severly slowing marine expansion: Priceless
As I save for Fade as soon as I drop my first RT and go fade as soon as the 2nd is building I get alot of use out of my Fade. The rest of the team will hopefully get the upg's and hive but in return I scour the map for TF'd or Elec'd RT's. Sure a Gorge + skulk can get them quite effectively but it takes at least two peeps and takes a long time. Fades do in on their own and easily.
Then I kill lone marines until they are too scared to leave the base by themself. I also bait marines into chasing me while skulks ambush them.
Fades do die easily but you just need to be careful and often let other aliens do the killing. I generally can remain alive as a Fade until I have at least 50 res again and usually 100.
On paper I agree a Fade is not worth 50 res but with practice its in-game effect is much bigger. Fades like all aliens now DO have a support function: Drawing fire, if you blink in with 3 skulks behind you then the marines all shoot you, the fade, leaving the skulks to close the distance relatively unscathed. Full health skulks at close range = marine pain. You'll have to leave sharpish to heal but thats what meta is for...
I also think I have figured out the No.1 annoying thing about Fades. The swipe 'pushes' the marine. If they jump and you swipe then they go miles and as Fades are only slighty faster than marines they can get alot of shots in as you catch them up. Sure you can blink but you often go past them, this is the usual reason I have to retreat - My first target stays alive when I think they should be dead then I change target and get shot by both. That hurts alot so I have to run...
Comments
Yes i think fades r underpowered.
Old blink ruled (it actually was teleportation). This new cheap rip off blink is just a stupid accelerator!!!!!!!
The acid rocket in 1.0 was awesum!!! U could shoot sum1 and miss and still kill them <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The new and uber shotguns and hmgs like rip u apart in less than a sec!!!
The swipe is like a slower bite!!!
OMG with legs longer than a girrafes ud think this thing could outrun a speeding horse!!! It moves like a rhino!!!!
About them being underused...I don't think they are that much. In the server I play (sig) they are usually used almost every game if a good amount of the regulars are in the server. I do think they could be used a bit more. The reason they're not used as much is because it takes a good amount of skill to use them. But when they're used to perfection (I've seen it before) they can kick major arse. It seems the lerk is getting ever more popular. Lastly, usually in a game close to an alien victory there are 2 or 3 onos (however you make it plural), some lerks and a gorge or two. When someone dies they go xenocide or bite like mad.
(what most people do)
The fade need blink to be a passive skill...crouch+jump or whatever...and add a new weapon for it to increase its combatabilities...
I don't know why I included Origin, but uh, yea, maybe because of the cool vents... Beats me, har har.
IMHO thats because any chimp can use an Onos, and while the rine shoot the caek, Fades can go in and slash slash blink.
In clans they've quickly become the quick way to stop any and all marines that aren't in HA and packing shotties.
Fades are available at three minutes thirty seconds - get 4-6 kills and you can go fade. They can, alone, slaughter groups of 3-6 LMG marines. A group of four shotguns can be delayed by a single fade almost indefinitely.
And you people want them <i>buffed?</i>
What in the world.
Fades are available at three minutes thirty seconds - get 4-6 kills and you can go fade. They can, alone, slaughter groups of 3-6 LMG marines. A group of four shotguns can be delayed by a single fade almost indefinitely.
And you people want them <i>buffed?</i>
What in the world. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I dont believe you <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
The only real issue I have with the Fade is metabolize and regeneration not stacking.
As for "one offensive attack", blinking and slashing will yield more effective results. I can blink into base, take out a turret or rine (or rines <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and then blink out. With cara they do little damage, and once you've blinked past two corners you can meta with adren. Hell, with adren you can blink back to most hives in a matter of seconds.
Its just takes quite a bit to bring down just one but when they move in trains your dead once your out of blink ready to swipe.
SoulSkorpion & I went through this HEAVILY in 1.x. The only 1.x players who cry about the Fade now, are the ones who acid spammed. Sorry, you've lost your UT rocket launcher.
The Fade is a killing machine, the only reason the nubs die is because it now requires timing & foresight. You now have to <i>think</i>. That little mush in your cranium has to be engaged when you spend those 50 blobs of Nano goo.
Melee Fade is fine. The Fade itself is fine. The only thing I wish is the Fade had a better use for Acid Rocket, because if it were moved to 2nd hive, we're back to acid spammers, but as it stands it simply isn't as good as the other Hive 3 abilities, and it certainly doesn't need improving.
Possibly acid could do less damage (or do massive damage, but only to armour because it's acid?), but cause view disorientation? Thus giving the Fade a reason to acid on the way in, but leaving the claws as the main way of despatching enemies?
In fact.....
*Trots to S&I*
Ok sure Onos devour borders on breaking this rule, but it's still ok since even if you COULD see you wouldn't be able to defend yourself, so the digestion screen doesn't actually disadvantage you any more than usual.
SoulSkorpion & I went through this HEAVILY in 1.x. The only 1.x players who cry about the Fade now, are the ones who acid spammed. Sorry, you've lost your UT rocket launcher.
The Fade is a killing machine, the only reason the nubs die is because it now requires timing & foresight. You now have to <i>think</i>. That little mush in your cranium has to be engaged when you spend those 50 blobs of Nano goo.
Melee Fade is fine. The Fade itself is fine. The only thing I wish is the Fade had a better use for Acid Rocket, because if it were moved to 2nd hive, we're back to acid spammers, but as it stands it simply isn't as good as the other Hive 3 abilities, and it certainly doesn't need improving.
Possibly acid could do less damage (or do massive damage, but only to armour because it's acid?), but cause view disorientation? Thus giving the Fade a reason to acid on the way in, but leaving the claws as the main way of despatching enemies?
In fact.....
*Trots to S&I* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I grew rather fond of redemption/celerity fade in 1.04. Both for the ability to suicide rush outposts and to take down marines, rarely ever did I bother to acid spam since the blink deep into outposts/marine base and start slashing until you redeemed, then heal up and blink back was a heck of a lot more efficient and fun.
Well, maybe it's just that I haven't mastered the new fade yet. I have to admit I haven't toyed around with it much. I liked the old blink a heck of a lot better and the fades seems to die easier too now. Maybe it's just because I haven't experimented with it that much now, but every time I frantically try to blink out from an attack somewhere, I keep bumping into every damn thing on the way. *chuckle*
That said, I don't care about the acid rocket. What I want is something which is a bit better than metabolize at hive 2, preferably an offensive type or a marine debuff, perhaps. (yeah, yeah, blink to a hive if you need healing. It's not like you move at the speed of a webbed crouching marine.)
I tend to find them only useful with 3 hives.
And I still even with 3 hives do more damage with a lerk then I would ever do with fades.
In my opinion fades just get shot and run away to heal.
They need some DEFENITE ups.
Maybe Acid rocket more damage?
Or acid rocket = third metabolize = 4th.
Maybe acid rocket taking up way less energy.
(Rite now acid rocket sucks, sure if you got half-hour on your hands you can acid a rocket a turret to death... and thats with adrenaline.)
Acid rocket isn't that great of a three hive ability. It's not that different from the one hive ability that it used to be. Metabolize isn't that great of an ability either. It was put in because the first version of metabolize was very buggy and frequently resulted in invincible Fades. It was changed to the slow and noisy heal ability that the Fade has now.
Fades have a nice niche in the anti-personnel department and I'd like to keep them that way. I like Shockwaves idea about making acid rocket an anti-armor weapon and leaving slash as the way to kill. The trouble is, that's what I did in 1.04. AR spam a group, blink in and make with the slashy-slashy. I never like being relegated to "melee" or "ranged" Fade groups. AR and slash/blink complement each other, they aren't mutually exclusive.
Fades can't really be made more powerful right now. If you make them powerful and easy to use for your average pubber, they'll see a <i>ton</i> of abuse in clans that are already capable of using a single Fade to stop marine expansion. Even on pubs that have a higher caliber of player, you see Fades dominating marines well before any Onos has a chance to make an appearance.
As for acid rockets.. they just arnt worthy of the 3rd hive ability. I say give fades bile bomb back! and give gorges the acid rockets! This seems more viable to me, then a fade could blink into a vent and bile, blink out, swipe swipe, run and metabolise.
I love fighting em down corridors where I can kill them while there blinking (got to love that weak new blink)
Swipe works like a slower bite and fades make for a much easer target then a skulk. Once HMGs and upgraded LMGs show up I can engauge them with confadence knowing that unless there lucky or catch me on the reload im probley going to win.
When I play aleins I find that I get more kills with a skulk then just about any fades players. Leap plus celerity means im going to move the map nearly as fast, Bite does the same damage and my hit box is MUCH smaller then a fade. That along with the fact a teched up skulk cost 6 res compared to 56 for a fade, why even have fades in the game?
Now v1.4 fades where a different story. Old blink was with out a doubt the best power in the game in the hands of a pro. Fades had ALOT more stand up power and had acid rocket for busting up turret farms and softening tight groups of marines before you blinked behind them for the kill. Not only that they dident have those retardo gimp-claws that the new fades has <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you play against some really stupid fades.
Trust me, if a fade blinks well, he'll be very very hard to hit.
Adrenaline/Regeneration/Scent of Fear Fade
Great for taking out res towers and turret farms. Also you must use the hit and run tactic, especially if you dont have acid rocket yet. I usually play with my prey before I go for the kill as fade. I blink around to confuse the marine and end up behind him and stick him. With acid rocket I stay back as far as possible to avoid the accuracy of HMGs and shotttys of close range.
Stealth/Regeneration/Silence Fade <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is where the fun comes in. Blink around the level and when you hear those marine footsteps, stop so you can cloak then hold shift so you can walk cloaked (2.01d only) then you can walk right up to their face and they still wont see you. Slash em up and they will never even hear or see what him them. I have TONS of fun with this method and you can easily ambush marines in groups too (don't forget the hit and run method).
The new blink is great IMO because its not choppy and you don't get stuck like in 1.04. Metabolize comes in handy so you can get carapace or redemption and still be able to heal, but I still like regeneration better because you heal while still in combat. The adjustments made to acid rocket seem fair enough and if you are skilled enough you can kill just as easily with it now as in 1.04.
And to reply to the first post...Fade is by far my FAVORITE alien form. Once mastered it can do as much damage as the Onos.
Yes from what I've seen fades are massively underused in Pubs. I've played a good few 2.01d games and have been seeing some very quick expansion from the marines. With marines matching aliens almost res for res but with elec RT's. This has resulted in quite a few marine wins as the RT's are very hard to take down...
...except with fades.
The main thing I noticed in games where marines lost with this strat was fades. 2-3 Fades can clear the map of elec RT's in minutes and can very effectively stop marine expansion.
3 fades around a PG? No way are ANY marines coming through and they can take it down quick enough to make turrets only a small worry.
Lone fading is OK but fade groups are even better!
However I do find 2 hives, MC + DC is when fades come into thier own.
It isn't just a bigger skulk, it is a bigger skulk that can heal itself, fly like superman, and soak up bullets like a sponge.
Although I think slash should have an advantage over bite, and acid rocket should do something more... better splash radius or something.
With the power of fades, any unguarded base or res node will die quickly even with turrets. So marines have to choose to guard a base or lose it. But if they are guarding all their bases they are not attacking or scouting. So aliens just group up and take out bases 1 by 1.
If marines try a mass attack, fades can take out their undefended expansions and still blink back in time to defend the hive.
I prefer the Cara Adren fade (with cloak or SoF, game depending) and stick to the hit n run doctrine.
Cara gives that added resistance, and adren allows rapid metabolise after a blink escape. Very rarely do I die, and it usually involves point blank shotties, mines, or siege hit when near a chamber.
Staying alive isnt the goal, of course, but less deaths mean more time harassing the enemy. I might not rack up the kills but I can pin down people very effectively.
What I really want to know, is how these "good" fade players take out 2 or 3 marines with shotties...
To tell you the truth, I can't remember the last time I was killed by a fade. 3 shottie blasts are enough to kill a fade, and a fade is a big target... If I ever see a fade, it is more of a free kill to me unless I don't have another person near me (which is basically never, unless I have a jetpack). Fades are underpowered. I was dedicated to fade in 1.4, but now in 2.0, I don't think 50 res is worth it. Waiting for 100 res is a much better investment. An onos to me, is about 3 or 4 times as good of an investment.
Fades aren't useless... but there really should be a maximum of one per team. The only real use for fade is to take out light solo marines. Even 2 or 3 decent marines with lmg's will tear a fade apart. They just have too little health.
LOL, yeah, from re-reading my own stuff I can see how fades are usefull. In pub servers, half of the marine team doesn't listen, and go off on their own... lol.. easy fade prey. BUT STILL, PLEASE INFORM ME ON HOW TO KILL MORE THAN A SOLO MARINE!
I know you say this whole blink/slash thing is how... but... blink doesnt make you dissapear like it used too, so getting to my back is very hard, considering I can see, and shoot you, the whole time your blinking. If your going against me, you will also run into another teammate of mine. If you dont fall from our lmg clips, you surely will from both our pistol clips. Generally my pistol clips come first... but anyhow, again, most of our bullets will hit you. Thats more damage than a fade can handle.
And in a worst case scenerio... we dont kill you with our clips. While your killing one guy, the other will reload and kill you. So you can kill one guy in total. That's 1 res to the marine team if we had lmgs... and 50 for yourself... That really doesnt compare. And if we had shotguns... you would die before you could get one slash in to one of us.
Again, I'm not saying that fade are useless, I'm saying there not usefull enough to spend 50 res on if your against a decent marine team with aim. They are fine for most pubs with wandering marines...
As I mentioned above, I can't remember the last time I fell to a fade in 2.0, maybe I haven't been up against those "amazing fade players" who take on 2 or 3 marines by themselves.
LOL, yeah, from re-reading my own stuff I can see how fades are usefull. In pub servers, half of the marine team doesn't listen, and go off on their own... lol.. easy fade prey. BUT STILL, PLEASE INFORM ME ON HOW TO KILL MORE THAN A SOLO MARINE!
I know you say this whole blink/slash thing is how... but... blink doesnt make you dissapear like it used too, so getting to my back is very hard, considering I can see, and shoot you, the whole time your blinking. If your going against me, you will also run into another teammate of mine. If you dont fall from our lmg clips, you surely will from both our pistol clips. Generally my pistol clips come first... but anyhow, again, most of our bullets will hit you. Thats more damage than a fade can handle.
And in a worst case scenerio... we dont kill you with our clips. While your killing one guy, the other will reload and kill you. So you can kill one guy in total. That's 1 res to the marine team if we had lmgs... and 50 for yourself... That really doesnt compare. And if we had shotguns... you would die before you could get one slash in to one of us.
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*chortle*
Fades have their usefullness, but not as much as an onos does. In 1.4, fades were much more usefull, may not be as good or worse, but I think they were more usefull. Especially with the carapace upgrade that effected you more...
3 MC's: 30 res
3 RT's: 45 res
1 Hive: 35res (or 40)
3 DC's: 30 res
Being able to remove elec RT's with ease: Priceless
Severly slowing marine expansion: Priceless
As I save for Fade as soon as I drop my first RT and go fade as soon as the 2nd is building I get alot of use out of my Fade. The rest of the team will hopefully get the upg's and hive but in return I scour the map for TF'd or Elec'd RT's. Sure a Gorge + skulk can get them quite effectively but it takes at least two peeps and takes a long time. Fades do in on their own and easily.
Then I kill lone marines until they are too scared to leave the base by themself.
I also bait marines into chasing me while skulks ambush them.
Fades do die easily but you just need to be careful and often let other aliens do the killing. I generally can remain alive as a Fade until I have at least 50 res again and usually 100.
On paper I agree a Fade is not worth 50 res but with practice its in-game effect is much bigger. Fades like all aliens now DO have a support function: Drawing fire, if you blink in with 3 skulks behind you then the marines all shoot you, the fade, leaving the skulks to close the distance relatively unscathed. Full health skulks at close range = marine pain. You'll have to leave sharpish to heal but thats what meta is for...
I also think I have figured out the No.1 annoying thing about Fades. The swipe 'pushes' the marine. If they jump and you swipe then they go miles and as Fades are only slighty faster than marines they can get alot of shots in as you catch them up. Sure you can blink but you often go past them, this is the usual reason I have to retreat - My first target stays alive when I think they should be dead then I change target and get shot by both. That hurts alot so I have to run...