<!--QuoteBegin--Wolv+Aug 12 2003, 09:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wolv @ Aug 12 2003, 09:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Using the difference between marines and aliens as a way to explain why this feature is rather bad is not a good idea IMO. Just think what is the best solution.
Aliens overflowing at 100 res is only likely in the endgame when the aliens have most of the resource towers. In this case the aliens could use a little boost to help speed up the oh-so-boring endgame (Yes, yes, I know. It only took a little teamwork and a sneeze in the general direction of the turretfarms for the playtesters to clear them out, but this is the real world.). So letting this res go somewhere would be a nice solution.
Letting it overflow to the rest of the team seems the best solution, and if stubby is correct that is already the case. This way people can stay at 100 res and know their teammates will be aided by it. Once everyone goes to 100 res I guess the rest could go to the hive, like in 1.0x, and be distributed when it's needed again.
Removing the indivual cap is a more drastic solution. It seems more prone to exploiting, where a single unnoticed gorge goes into a hiding spot and spits out 8 chambers of each type in seconds. Just doesn't seem right. I know that this is also possible with the previous version if the entire team is at 100 res, but if the <b>entire</b> alien team manages to reach 100 res I think you can hardly call it an exploit.
So in short letting the aliens overflow to each-other would be a subtle change, that would mostly only affect the endgame. Clanners shouldn't be worried about balance, since I'm sure it's even less common in clan matches, where every res is immediately spend to rush the opposing team to the max. And don't give me crap like "If it ain't broke...", cause the endgame sure seems broken to me and about a thousand locked topic starters. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The "if it ain't...." is regarding the cap dude, while the overflow is redundant throughout the majority of the game, go suggest it in the Suggestions and Ideas forum if you feel it is entirely viable. Myself, i've never had a problem getting enough res to do whatever i like during the endgame so i see it as no problem whatever.
<!--QuoteBegin--ViPr+Aug 12 2003, 10:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Aug 12 2003, 10:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yeah the res should overflow to team-mates or should not be capped. but being wasted is just stupid. that would just throw things totally out of wack. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As i said through personal experience (that being playing the game for several hours a day, mostly as aliens) i've not had a problem, but go suggest it.
<!--QuoteBegin--Wolv+Aug 12 2003, 10:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wolv @ Aug 12 2003, 10:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> /me gives ::esuna:: the the "luck ****" award for being the only alien to have never been in a boringly long endgame. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've never said i've never been in a boring, long end game, i just said that when it happens i've never had a problem with res drying up.
The fact is simple. Aliens get res from resource towers, and kills. Gorges dont get extra res than other marines. If you have 100 res, your res just doesnt add up, but it doesnt spill to anyone else.
<!--QuoteBegin--MrMojo+Aug 12 2003, 04:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Aug 12 2003, 04:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it doesnt spill to anyone else. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And you know this how? When was the last time you were on a server where everyone was at 100 res and you were the only person who wasn't?
<!--QuoteBegin--Anavrin+Aug 12 2003, 11:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anavrin @ Aug 12 2003, 11:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--MrMojo+Aug 12 2003, 04:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Aug 12 2003, 04:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it doesnt spill to anyone else. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And you know this how? When was the last time you were on a server where everyone was at 100 res and you were the only person who wasn't?
I thought so. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Stop acting so smug, you have as much proof of being correct as you do as being wrong, wait for the word back from someone who knows for certain before you spread your ego so lavishly upon others.
<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Aug 12 2003, 04:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Aug 12 2003, 04:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Stop acting so smug, you have as much proof of being correct as you do as being wrong <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Look through the thread again and you'll see the only people who are sure of themselves are the ones who firmly said there is no overflow.
I never said there was or wasn't overflow, but I will be as smug as I want if someone is going to preach something they know nothing about. Honestly, they're just setting themselves up to be scrutinized and I feel no moral wrong in fulfilling that act.
Stop "yelling" at each other. Just get in an empty server with two other people (hopefully that will listen to you), 2 go alien and the other one marine.
One person go gorge and build 1 RT (for a total of 2). One stay skulk and kill the marine over and over again until you have 100 res. One go marine and just build an IP, nothing else, and don't fight back.
Once the skulk reaches 100 res, the gorge (or whatever that player is now... does not really matter, only as long as you have an even number of RTs) should be getting 2 RP a tick (or the number of resource towers you currently have). If the number of res you get is not equal to the # of RTs you have, then there is no overflow and you should be getting #ofRTs/2 RP a tick.
There, thats how you find out if alien's have res overflow or not. I am at work now, so I cannot test it, and I'm going to play Halo when I get home. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Aug 12 2003, 08:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Aug 12 2003, 08:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There needs to be a res cap, individual aliens rely on their res, if they spend 100 res on an Onos it's meant to put them back to 0 so they have to work their way back up to 100 if they die. It's supposed to encourage you to stay alive and not waste res. If you walked around with 53864523 res and you go onos, die, go onos, die, onos, die, and so on the marines have no chance of stopping you, yes balance does come into it, it <b>would</b> make the aliens (more) overpowered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> or you could sit out of harms way and just keep putting up a hive from a vent, again and again and again! They you could also go around and drop a WoL with full DC and SC and MC coverage every 20 feet! The Server would do a nice crashing thing, becasue you and your team could sit back, get 600 res each and fill the map with Chambers out the ****!
Without the cap, it would be like the marines being able to place Turrets any where they wanted and any amount without worrying about Res, because each rine had his own pot of RES to do with what he liked!
<!--QuoteBegin--Anavrin+Aug 12 2003, 11:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anavrin @ Aug 12 2003, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Come on, you said there was no overflow. Where in the changelog or in Flayra's words did it ever say that? Or are you making it all up as you see fit? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> try playing a game and seeing someof your team mates with 100 res (you can see that when you look at them now, you know...) and notice if your seem to be getting res faster?
YOU DON'T, ESUNA is right and your wrong! I know for a fact, becasue like Esuna, I have played games where we had team of 8 v 8 and I watched as 4 of my team mates went went ONOS and stay alive for the rest of the game all maxed with 100 res, I was gorge and it still took the same amount of time to get the res.
Besides all of this proof! I believe that a Dev member has said before that it doesn't overflow add up, and as you have said so many times, its not in the change log, so that would mean its the SAME as 1.04.. by your logic anyways! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Aug 12 2003, 12:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Aug 12 2003, 12:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Aug 12 2003, 08:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Aug 12 2003, 08:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There needs to be a res cap, individual aliens rely on their res, if they spend 100 res on an Onos it's meant to put them back to 0 so they have to work their way back up to 100 if they die. It's supposed to encourage you to stay alive and not waste res. If you walked around with 53864523 res and you go onos, die, go onos, die, onos, die, and so on the marines have no chance of stopping you, yes balance does come into it, it <b>would</b> make the aliens (more) overpowered. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> or you could sit out of harms way and just keep putting up a hive from a vent, again and again and again! They you could also go around and drop a WoL with full DC and SC and MC coverage every 20 feet! The Server would do a nice crashing thing, becasue you and your team could sit back, get 600 res each and fill the map with Chambers out the ****!
Without the cap, it would be like the marines being able to place Turrets any where they wanted and any amount without worrying about Res, because each rine had his own pot of RES to do with what he liked!
BALANCE Think about the long term, not the short! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Once again, overflow doesnt grant you infinite res but will grant you as much res as a smart team will have. What are the possible reasons we dont see this in 1.04? I'm abit fed up by these reasons, they are nonsense
why would spillover to other team-mates or non capped res automatically mean the aliens have ridiculous amounts of res to do whatever the hell they want? do the marines have ridiculous amounts of res since there's no limit? you people are not thinking. the game should have been balanced after the spillover system was handled properly. now if it hasn't then it has to be fixed and then everything has to be rebalanced to those changes. why do you people not freakin get it!! ! ! ! stop saying the bugs have to stay to keep the balance the way it is. balancing comes after bugfixing! the bugs have to be fixed first and then you balance. if you balance before you fix the bugs then you'll have to balance again after the bugs are fixed!
Ok i have tested it and overflow seems to be gone. While I dont agree its a good thing It does seem to be the way v2 works. Personally I think that as a team your "earning" those lost res points and they should be yous to keep. I DONT feel that it would knock the game outa balence since your not ADDING res to the system your just keeping what you have. As farm as some ones comment about filling the map with spam, Hell thats what truely good team players do. When im fading and i hit 100 res I goto gorge and build a WoL or a regen point then go back to fade. It kinda irks me that when I max at 100 Im lossing out on the RfK that I SHOULD be getting. If I cant have it becuase of the 100 res cap then I should be able to pass it on to my team, Which incidently is Supose to be what NS is all about.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
#2
And Esuna, about your example that "people will be encouraged to live" with this way it works, IT'S actually the other way around, if you have 100 res and if you're an onos, you might as well suicide run and get something down
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
edited August 2003
[QUOTE=NoImagination,Aug 12 2003, 01:01 PM] [QUOTE]but the distribution is collective for marines and individual for aliens.[QUOTE] It will just be this way, it's just logic that an alien with 100 res doesnt get a share of the pool per tick
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
edited August 2003
That was what I meant with my post, the pool is still split evenly but if an alien have 100 res he wont get a share and that res will be back in splitted pool and splitted evenly among the other aliens <b>which</b> havent reached 100 res.
Something like that needs to be put in for the marine team also. Once upon a time, I was playing a ns_siege005 game. We, the marines, were winning (no big surprise). But we were winning by a large margin, like people hardly died even though they rushed us with onos. We also capped a lot their nodes. We had a res overflow till we had around 800-900 res. Then, when we started climbing into the 950s, the server crashed. Yes, servers can crash if you have too much res. The whole thing freezes, and then you get the "WARNING: Connection Problem" message, then you pull down the console and type "retry." What a horribly ironic way to stalemate.
i don't see any reason why having lots of resources should crash the server. having lots of certain things can crash it because each thing takes up it's own memory space but the resources increasing is just one memory space changing it's value to a different number.
<!--QuoteBegin--Delta|Cpt.Terran+Aug 12 2003, 11:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delta|Cpt.Terran @ Aug 12 2003, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Something like that needs to be put in for the marine team also. Once upon a time, I was playing a ns_siege005 game. We, the marines, were winning (no big surprise). But we were winning by a large margin, like people hardly died even though they rushed us with onos. We also capped a lot their nodes. We had a res overflow till we had around 800-900 res. Then, when we started climbing into the 950s, the server crashed. Yes, servers can crash if you have too much res. The whole thing freezes, and then you get the "WARNING: Connection Problem" message, then you pull down the console and type "retry." What a horribly ironic way to stalemate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've had over 20000 res before (sv_cheats 1), and the server didnt crash.
this is where your extra res goes: lets pretend your res from towers are represented by ... big macs and your RFK are single-cheeseburgers you can fit approximately 5 singles in your tummy now if you eat a biggie then a single then another biggie then start another but cant finish it, where does it go? yep, the trash bin and as for the other singles you got (RFK after you max out) they go home with you and find a home in the back of your fridge and comeout a month later about twice as big because of that green krud all over them, so where do they go? down the drain. and that my friends is where all your extra res goes
oh an about the marines they have collective res, so they all order at he same time and eat at the same time and are REALLY hungry because, hey shootin aliens gives ya a big appetite? dont it?
Comments
Aliens overflowing at 100 res is only likely in the endgame when the aliens have most of the resource towers. In this case the aliens could use a little boost to help speed up the oh-so-boring endgame (Yes, yes, I know. It only took a little teamwork and a sneeze in the general direction of the turretfarms for the playtesters to clear them out, but this is the real world.). So letting this res go somewhere would be a nice solution.
Letting it overflow to the rest of the team seems the best solution, and if stubby is correct that is already the case. This way people can stay at 100 res and know their teammates will be aided by it. Once everyone goes to 100 res I guess the rest could go to the hive, like in 1.0x, and be distributed when it's needed again.
Removing the indivual cap is a more drastic solution. It seems more prone to exploiting, where a single unnoticed gorge goes into a hiding spot and spits out 8 chambers of each type in seconds. Just doesn't seem right. I know that this is also possible with the previous version if the entire team is at 100 res, but if the <b>entire</b> alien team manages to reach 100 res I think you can hardly call it an exploit.
So in short letting the aliens overflow to each-other would be a subtle change, that would mostly only affect the endgame. Clanners shouldn't be worried about balance, since I'm sure it's even less common in clan matches, where every res is immediately spend to rush the opposing team to the max.
And don't give me crap like "If it ain't broke...", cause the endgame sure seems broken to me and about a thousand locked topic starters. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The "if it ain't...." is regarding the cap dude, while the overflow is redundant throughout the majority of the game, go suggest it in the Suggestions and Ideas forum if you feel it is entirely viable. Myself, i've never had a problem getting enough res to do whatever i like during the endgame so i see it as no problem whatever.
You people claim with confidence that there is no overflow. How do you know? Did Flayra ever say that? And why isn't it in the changelog?
As i said through personal experience (that being playing the game for several hours a day, mostly as aliens) i've not had a problem, but go suggest it.
[edit]Dam these swearfilters, I'm sure I used that word in a perfectly good context.[/edit]
I've never said i've never been in a boring, long end game, i just said that when it happens i've never had a problem with res drying up.
And you know this how? When was the last time you were on a server where everyone was at 100 res and you were the only person who wasn't?
I thought so.
And you know this how? When was the last time you were on a server where everyone was at 100 res and you were the only person who wasn't?
I thought so. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stop acting so smug, you have as much proof of being correct as you do as being wrong, wait for the word back from someone who knows for certain before you spread your ego so lavishly upon others.
Look through the thread again and you'll see the only people who are sure of themselves are the ones who firmly said there is no overflow.
I never said there was or wasn't overflow, but I will be as smug as I want if someone is going to preach something they know nothing about. Honestly, they're just setting themselves up to be scrutinized and I feel no moral wrong in fulfilling that act.
One person go gorge and build 1 RT (for a total of 2).
One stay skulk and kill the marine over and over again until you have 100 res.
One go marine and just build an IP, nothing else, and don't fight back.
Once the skulk reaches 100 res, the gorge (or whatever that player is now... does not really matter, only as long as you have an even number of RTs) should be getting 2 RP a tick (or the number of resource towers you currently have). If the number of res you get is not equal to the # of RTs you have, then there is no overflow and you should be getting #ofRTs/2 RP a tick.
There, thats how you find out if alien's have res overflow or not. I am at work now, so I cannot test it, and I'm going to play Halo when I get home. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
or you could sit out of harms way and just keep putting up a hive from a vent, again and again and again! They you could also go around and drop a WoL with full DC and SC and MC coverage every 20 feet!
The Server would do a nice crashing thing, becasue you and your team could sit back, get 600 res each and fill the map with Chambers out the ****!
Without the cap, it would be like the marines being able to place Turrets any where they wanted and any amount without worrying about Res, because each rine had his own pot of RES to do with what he liked!
BALANCE
Think about the long term, not the short!
try playing a game and seeing someof your team mates with 100 res (you can see that when you look at them now, you know...) and notice if your seem to be getting res faster?
YOU DON'T, ESUNA is right and your wrong!
I know for a fact, becasue like Esuna, I have played games where we had team of 8 v 8 and I watched as 4 of my team mates went went ONOS and stay alive for the rest of the game all maxed with 100 res, I was gorge and it still took the same amount of time to get the res.
Besides all of this proof! I believe that a Dev member has said before that it doesn't overflow add up, and as you have said so many times, its not in the change log, so that would mean its the SAME as 1.04.. by your logic anyways! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
or you could sit out of harms way and just keep putting up a hive from a vent, again and again and again! They you could also go around and drop a WoL with full DC and SC and MC coverage every 20 feet!
The Server would do a nice crashing thing, becasue you and your team could sit back, get 600 res each and fill the map with Chambers out the ****!
Without the cap, it would be like the marines being able to place Turrets any where they wanted and any amount without worrying about Res, because each rine had his own pot of RES to do with what he liked!
BALANCE
Think about the long term, not the short! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once again, overflow doesnt grant you infinite res but will grant you as much res as a smart team will have.
What are the possible reasons we dont see this in 1.04? I'm abit fed up by these reasons, they are nonsense
Personally I think that as a team your "earning" those lost res points and they should be yous to keep. I DONT feel that it would knock the game outa balence since your not ADDING res to the system your just keeping what you have.
As farm as some ones comment about filling the map with spam, Hell thats what truely good team players do. When im fading and i hit 100 res I goto gorge and build a WoL or a regen point then go back to fade.
It kinda irks me that when I max at 100 Im lossing out on the RfK that I SHOULD be getting. If I cant have it becuase of the 100 res cap then I should be able to pass it on to my team, Which incidently is Supose to be what NS is all about.
And Esuna, about your example that "people will be encouraged to live" with this way it works, IT'S actually the other way around, if you have 100 res and if you're an onos, you might as well suicide run and get something down
[QUOTE]but the distribution is collective for marines and individual for aliens.[QUOTE]
It will just be this way, it's just logic that an alien with 100 res doesnt get a share of the pool per tick
Nowhere. It just goes into a black hole or something. Poof. Gone. Just like that.
I've had over 20000 res before (sv_cheats 1), and the server didnt crash.
lets pretend your res from towers are represented by ... big macs
and your RFK are single-cheeseburgers
you can fit approximately 5 singles in your tummy
now if you eat a biggie then a single then another biggie then start another but cant finish it, where does it go? yep, the trash bin
and as for the other singles you got (RFK after you max out) they go home with you and find a home in the back of your fridge and comeout a month later about twice as big because of that green krud all over them, so where do they go? down the drain.
and that my friends is where all your extra res goes
oh an about the marines they have collective res, so they all order at he same time and eat at the same time and are REALLY hungry because, hey shootin aliens gives ya a big appetite? dont it?