Just remember: That same n00b who sucks **** in NS right now could probably hand you your **** in Tribes 2 or could rush your characters to 100 on Diablo 2 in a matter of hours. I hate when people act as if they're somehow intellectually better than a guy who doesn't know NS... especially since I've seen quite a few people who know how to play NS and don't know much of anything else.
This is true, I know nothing about fixing cars, so I don't pretend to. Its simply arrogant to rise yourself upon a pedestal just because you do something better than someone else @_@
You guys make it sound as if we go "OMG NEWBIE YOU SUCK GET OUT OF THE SERVER I WANT MORE VETS!" the instance we see something newbish happening.
I can tell you,at least for me,thats not what happens.
I try to explain to them what to do,why they should go to the WP,why they cant have weapons and that we have to work together as a team to win and put the team infront of themselves first.
So far in 2.0 i have not seen a SINGLE newbie respond other than having sudden fits of amnesia that renders them unable to understand english for a few seconds that magically goes away long enough for them to ask for a weapon again OR they just tell me to SUYF OR they try to eject me.
P.S.Makes you wonder how many of the 10k CS players are cheaters,lamers or otherwise undesirable individuals.....
With me this is sort of a mixed issue. I got off of Natural Selection right when I first heard the game was going to be patched to 2.0 and decided to hone on my Counter Strike skills. A lot of time passed between now and then, and my abilities at the game are a little rusted. Since the 2.0 I've gotten a few games as a commander under my belt and I figure marines need some encouragement to want to follow the commanders orders.
First let me say that I have no idea what most of the maps are called, I haven't played for competition so i haven't dedicated a lot of time to memorizing the maps in a general detail or specific detail. I know a lot of people on this forum probably have though, or at least do know the maps and their respective areas. Simply this will always be a problem with NS, there are lots of areas to memorize in each map, and casual and probably even some Vets don't feel the game is that important to dedicate seriously to memory. As commanders this will be something we have to deal with regardless of the server, considering more and more players on comming to the game.
I believe the problem has to do with the way, we as commanders, are dealing with the marines who are insubordinate or ignorant to the game or even just new. My goal will be to introduce a method for which commanders can try to at least help marines who are either new or obstinate, become effective members of the marin team.
First: I would say harshness and sarcasm aren't really needed in commanding. Saying something like "Well if you don't do what I say then you're gonna get F_____ed!" or "English mother f_____er, do you speak it?! Go to maintenance access before we lose!" isn't going to encourage a marine to help the commander at all. In the real military this works, but thats because its real life. In Natural Selection the problem will always be that if the marine doesn't like the commander, he really can do whatever he/she wants to upset the commander without any real life actions taken against the marine. Thus, making the marin upset with degrading comments and rude/lude comments isn't going to win an obstinate marine over to your fold.
Second: Keep in mind that not everyone cares about NS as much as you do. I like to play to get away from the crappy teamwork that happens on CS, others play because the community is nicer. Some play becuase they seriously do love this game. Understand that this is a game and its not worth losing any of our tempers over it.
Third: It is true that some of these marines are new. My response to helping the new players is multifold to both commanders and the new marines.
Commanders: You should try to encourage the new players to be in a squad with higher powered players. With the new squad binding function this is a lot easier to do since the older versions of NS. Don't chastize a new player for not knowing what to do...they simply won't know, and yelling at them won't solve the problem. Ask another player who isn't busy to help the new character out, or divest your time into helping the new player. If that player is helped then you have strengthened the NS community as a whole. Teach the new marines what to do. tell them that they can weld certain vents...how to read their maps, give them descriptive identifiers for the locations and situations you're going to be putting them in. Furthermore, let the marines know how you understand certain things in the game. For example when a skulk explodes and kills 3 marines, tell the players that there are 3 hives active. Then say to the new characters that you know that because that is only a lvl 3 ability (i think....that was the wya it was back in 1.04 i don't know about that anymore though). Treat them how you would like to be treated.
Marines: If you are new, admit it. You aren't shaming yourself by saying your new to anything, and you'll let the comm know to let you feel out the game before trusting you with a serious assignemnt. If you're new to the marine's the key thing is to pretend that you are in the military, or that the commander is essentially God. Only in rare cases do you disregard a commander in real life, these cases are even less so in Natural Selection. For almost every situation the marines should follow the commanders orders...even if it equals death. Why? Like i said earlier this is a game. For the marines it's a team based game. Like all games, its not real life. There is nothing lost at all if you get killed in NS, therefore you shouldn't worry about following suicide orders from a commander. Also, don't pester the commander about guns. IF you can't use a Light machige gun, you don't deserve to use the shotgun, grenade launcher, and the heavy machine gun(that goes for everyone, know your limits, if you're no good with a weapon don't ask for it). Although it is true the other weapons definately are better than the LMG, you need to get used to using your LMG becuase there will be times thats all you have. If you're good with the LMG then you'll always be good because you will always at least have the LMG. If you're only good with a shotgun, then you aren't always good unless you have the shotgun. The better weapons should only be a bonus to your projectile weapon skills.
Now that i am done with that my final point is that while even though there are new players, and obstinate players who aren't helping the game, my best advice is to ignore them. If they won't help, then you shouldn't focus on them as a part of your team. It's like Sun Tzu's Art of War, your military is only as good as your weakest parts. Thus cutting your weakest elements (like obstinate characters (don't cut the newbies from your plans, give them missions that won't make or break the game)) from your plans. Assign your best squad as number 1, your new characters as number 2 and your lame characters as number 3 or don't give them a number. Your new characters will ask how to get better guns and you can explain to them how the system works.
Have fun guys, i hope this helps and i hope some people really take this into consideration when playing. Really NS is about teaching those who don't know and making all of us veterans at the game. We can't do that till are commanders are ready to command by teaching new characters about the game, and the marines are ready to listen to what is being taught. WIthout these two elements, nothing will work on NS. Keep at it as a commander someone is bound to listen to you.
Nefilim and ovaltine are right too, NS might not just be a players game, i know i'm really good at CS but play NS just to wind down. Others are awesome at certain things and horrible at others, the same goes here. A little understanding towards the marines you are trying to command can go a long way.
"I've hyped it to all my friends, and I think I've even convinced a few to buy Half Life for the sole purpose of trying out NS. I don't want their newbie enthusiasm to be burnt out by the disrespect they receive from the community at large. "
Same here. Now, on the side of the vets, only ONCE have I seen sheer disrespect handed out. Thats once, in a dozen servers on many nights since 2.0 came out. I call that good. IMHO we're all in that transitional state where a ton of people test the water. And not all will stay. People who prefer a CS style game will go back to CS or more likely pick the Alien team.
If we can all, as a community, keep our heads and tolerate the influx, then it'll all balance out. I see more complaints here than on the servers, and I see that as a good thing. Better here, where they can be said and forgotten, than on the servers where its make or break. At least on the forum it can be written off, or you can simply NOT click the topic..... but on the servers you either leave or you start flaming back.
Transitional period. Chill for a bit, and it'll all sort itself out.
BTW, really enjoyed wolfenstein just for being the flamethrower nazi <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I see a couple of my regulars have already commented about how we feel on your comments, spyduck. Not only that they've done it in a far more diplomatic way than I felt like doing.
My personal hate is the guy that jumps into the command chair doesnt give waypoints or orders and expects all the marines to work as a team. I dont know all the map locations by name, and I get confused and get locations mixed up when I'm tired or drunk. Commanding is about resource management and your most valuable resource, regardless of skill and experience are the people under your command.
If you dont want to give waypoints or orders then do us all a favour and stay out of the chair.
I'm an admin and I play lots so I know new players and CS rejects are trying our patience at the moment but most of them can be trained in a fairly short time.
Skyfall is my hero. He is so smart and sexay!!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I bet the n00b marines don't realize how much punishment a HA/HMG can take. Granted, 1 onos and it's all over, but I went out of base with a group of maybe 3 other HAs.....I was the only one to return to base with only 1 HP and no armor left. The rest of my squad got destroyed by skulks. Skulks....killing a squad of HA/HMGs......mmmm....can you say n00b?
Comments
I can tell you,at least for me,thats not what happens.
I try to explain to them what to do,why they should go to the WP,why they cant have weapons and that we have to work together as a team to win and put the team infront of themselves first.
So far in 2.0 i have not seen a SINGLE newbie respond other than having sudden fits of amnesia that renders them unable to understand english for a few seconds that magically goes away long enough for them to ask for a weapon again OR they just tell me to SUYF OR they try to eject me.
P.S.Makes you wonder how many of the 10k CS players are cheaters,lamers or otherwise undesirable individuals.....
First let me say that I have no idea what most of the maps are called, I haven't played for competition so i haven't dedicated a lot of time to memorizing the maps in a general detail or specific detail. I know a lot of people on this forum probably have though, or at least do know the maps and their respective areas. Simply this will always be a problem with NS, there are lots of areas to memorize in each map, and casual and probably even some Vets don't feel the game is that important to dedicate seriously to memory. As commanders this will be something we have to deal with regardless of the server, considering more and more players on comming to the game.
I believe the problem has to do with the way, we as commanders, are dealing with the marines who are insubordinate or ignorant to the game or even just new. My goal will be to introduce a method for which commanders can try to at least help marines who are either new or obstinate, become effective members of the marin team.
First: I would say harshness and sarcasm aren't really needed in commanding. Saying something like "Well if you don't do what I say then you're gonna get F_____ed!" or "English mother f_____er, do you speak it?! Go to maintenance access before we lose!" isn't going to encourage a marine to help the commander at all. In the real military this works, but thats because its real life. In Natural Selection the problem will always be that if the marine doesn't like the commander, he really can do whatever he/she wants to upset the commander without any real life actions taken against the marine. Thus, making the marin upset with degrading comments and rude/lude comments isn't going to win an obstinate marine over to your fold.
Second: Keep in mind that not everyone cares about NS as much as you do. I like to play to get away from the crappy teamwork that happens on CS, others play because the community is nicer. Some play becuase they seriously do love this game. Understand that this is a game and its not worth losing any of our tempers over it.
Third: It is true that some of these marines are new. My response to helping the new players is multifold to both commanders and the new marines.
Commanders: You should try to encourage the new players to be in a squad with higher powered players. With the new squad binding function this is a lot easier to do since the older versions of NS. Don't chastize a new player for not knowing what to do...they simply won't know, and yelling at them won't solve the problem. Ask another player who isn't busy to help the new character out, or divest your time into helping the new player. If that player is helped then you have strengthened the NS community as a whole. Teach the new marines what to do. tell them that they can weld certain vents...how to read their maps, give them descriptive identifiers for the locations and situations you're going to be putting them in. Furthermore, let the marines know how you understand certain things in the game. For example when a skulk explodes and kills 3 marines, tell the players that there are 3 hives active. Then say to the new characters that you know that because that is only a lvl 3 ability (i think....that was the wya it was back in 1.04 i don't know about that anymore though). Treat them how you would like to be treated.
Marines: If you are new, admit it. You aren't shaming yourself by saying your new to anything, and you'll let the comm know to let you feel out the game before trusting you with a serious assignemnt. If you're new to the marine's the key thing is to pretend that you are in the military, or that the commander is essentially God. Only in rare cases do you disregard a commander in real life, these cases are even less so in Natural Selection. For almost every situation the marines should follow the commanders orders...even if it equals death. Why? Like i said earlier this is a game. For the marines it's a team based game. Like all games, its not real life. There is nothing lost at all if you get killed in NS, therefore you shouldn't worry about following suicide orders from a commander. Also, don't pester the commander about guns. IF you can't use a Light machige gun, you don't deserve to use the shotgun, grenade launcher, and the heavy machine gun(that goes for everyone, know your limits, if you're no good with a weapon don't ask for it). Although it is true the other weapons definately are better than the LMG, you need to get used to using your LMG becuase there will be times thats all you have. If you're good with the LMG then you'll always be good because you will always at least have the LMG. If you're only good with a shotgun, then you aren't always good unless you have the shotgun. The better weapons should only be a bonus to your projectile weapon skills.
Now that i am done with that my final point is that while even though there are new players, and obstinate players who aren't helping the game, my best advice is to ignore them. If they won't help, then you shouldn't focus on them as a part of your team. It's like Sun Tzu's Art of War, your military is only as good as your weakest parts. Thus cutting your weakest elements (like obstinate characters (don't cut the newbies from your plans, give them missions that won't make or break the game)) from your plans. Assign your best squad as number 1, your new characters as number 2 and your lame characters as number 3 or don't give them a number. Your new characters will ask how to get better guns and you can explain to them how the system works.
Have fun guys, i hope this helps and i hope some people really take this into consideration when playing. Really NS is about teaching those who don't know and making all of us veterans at the game. We can't do that till are commanders are ready to command by teaching new characters about the game, and the marines are ready to listen to what is being taught. WIthout these two elements, nothing will work on NS. Keep at it as a commander someone is bound to listen to you.
Same here. Now, on the side of the vets, only ONCE have I seen sheer disrespect handed out. Thats once, in a dozen servers on many nights since 2.0 came out. I call that good. IMHO we're all in that transitional state where a ton of people test the water. And not all will stay. People who prefer a CS style game will go back to CS or more likely pick the Alien team.
If we can all, as a community, keep our heads and tolerate the influx, then it'll all balance out. I see more complaints here than on the servers, and I see that as a good thing. Better here, where they can be said and forgotten, than on the servers where its make or break. At least on the forum it can be written off, or you can simply NOT click the topic..... but on the servers you either leave or you start flaming back.
Transitional period. Chill for a bit, and it'll all sort itself out.
BTW, really enjoyed wolfenstein just for being the flamethrower nazi <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
My personal hate is the guy that jumps into the command chair doesnt give waypoints or orders and expects all the marines to work as a team. I dont know all the map locations by name, and I get confused and get locations mixed up when I'm tired or drunk. Commanding is about resource management and your most valuable resource, regardless of skill and experience are the people under your command.
If you dont want to give waypoints or orders then do us all a favour and stay out of the chair.
I'm an admin and I play lots so I know new players and CS rejects are trying our patience at the moment but most of them can be trained in a fairly short time.