Fun
Deathdrone
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18963Members
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18963Members
<div class="IPBDescription">- An Obsolete Concept?</div> Is fun gone from the electronic entertainment world?
I can't help but notice that of recent, technology, pretty SFX, and, relative to NS - _balancing_ seems to be taking preference over making a game and even movies rather... sterile.
Though undoubtedly someone has already made a topic of this, I reckon I'll start it anyway. First example I can give is, for the FPS'ers, Unreal 2. Amazing graphics, "intruiging" storyline, an engine to put most others to shame... U2 was still a pretty boring game. Master of Orion 3 - possibly the biggest let-down since Tiberian Sun, going to the forums _still_ - the game is dull. Bugs are yes, a major part of this, but I believe that the developers, in their quest to add every possible feature and micro-micro managable aspect to their product, took away the enjoyment many a gamer gets from taking over the galaxy. Where else? Neverwinter Nights - graphics over gameplay. Earth 2150 (remember that?) - boring, slow, graphically phenominal.
NS, however, runs amazingly well on an outdated but trusty engine, and most definately gives it a run for its money - (esp. with 2.0 - graphics and sound... *drool*).
But one cannot ignore that many people are saying that NS 2.0 is dull!
Personally, I can't really agree. Skulk-ambushing people is still too much of a thrill to allow me to agree. People have problems with even _that_ fun tactic, though. Is balancing going to kill NS?
Returning to another game reference - Empire Earth (not the only, but the most prominent in mind) is the ultimate balanced game. Too much, in fact - the way the game is made, you NEED to have unit A, and only A, to kill unit Type B. C, despite having large cannons, cannot kill B, contrary to the laws of physics, physical strength and reality.
NS... those who loved 1.0->1.04, did they love it for its exploited and biased victory methods? The thrill of rushing a hive with unstoppable JP/HMG's in a two-hive lockdown? It seems that, now that these "tactics" have been nuked, people have a reason to complain. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Illogical! Reasonably, removing any major advantage one side has over the other should make the game more even, with equal chances to win. Still, most players seem happiest just after they recover from having their final spawn besieged and win the game - unhappiest when they recieve a hiding (obviously), or even giving one in a few minutes. Is a two-minute game really worth the bandwidth?
Now, I could go on with this concept for a few pages, probably write a thesis on it (without evidence - nat?rlich...), but I'd be moving too far from NS, which really is why we're here.
Now I'm off to surprise a few insolent players by silently removing their craniums. NS still rocks.
I can't help but notice that of recent, technology, pretty SFX, and, relative to NS - _balancing_ seems to be taking preference over making a game and even movies rather... sterile.
Though undoubtedly someone has already made a topic of this, I reckon I'll start it anyway. First example I can give is, for the FPS'ers, Unreal 2. Amazing graphics, "intruiging" storyline, an engine to put most others to shame... U2 was still a pretty boring game. Master of Orion 3 - possibly the biggest let-down since Tiberian Sun, going to the forums _still_ - the game is dull. Bugs are yes, a major part of this, but I believe that the developers, in their quest to add every possible feature and micro-micro managable aspect to their product, took away the enjoyment many a gamer gets from taking over the galaxy. Where else? Neverwinter Nights - graphics over gameplay. Earth 2150 (remember that?) - boring, slow, graphically phenominal.
NS, however, runs amazingly well on an outdated but trusty engine, and most definately gives it a run for its money - (esp. with 2.0 - graphics and sound... *drool*).
But one cannot ignore that many people are saying that NS 2.0 is dull!
Personally, I can't really agree. Skulk-ambushing people is still too much of a thrill to allow me to agree. People have problems with even _that_ fun tactic, though. Is balancing going to kill NS?
Returning to another game reference - Empire Earth (not the only, but the most prominent in mind) is the ultimate balanced game. Too much, in fact - the way the game is made, you NEED to have unit A, and only A, to kill unit Type B. C, despite having large cannons, cannot kill B, contrary to the laws of physics, physical strength and reality.
NS... those who loved 1.0->1.04, did they love it for its exploited and biased victory methods? The thrill of rushing a hive with unstoppable JP/HMG's in a two-hive lockdown? It seems that, now that these "tactics" have been nuked, people have a reason to complain. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Illogical! Reasonably, removing any major advantage one side has over the other should make the game more even, with equal chances to win. Still, most players seem happiest just after they recover from having their final spawn besieged and win the game - unhappiest when they recieve a hiding (obviously), or even giving one in a few minutes. Is a two-minute game really worth the bandwidth?
Now, I could go on with this concept for a few pages, probably write a thesis on it (without evidence - nat?rlich...), but I'd be moving too far from NS, which really is why we're here.
Now I'm off to surprise a few insolent players by silently removing their craniums. NS still rocks.
Comments
What more needs to be said?
I love 1.04 for the straight action it was, and the biased victory method wasnt what made it fun, it was simply a method
Very true, very true.
However, 2.0 nudges us toward and almost forces us to be in closer contact with the enemy = more action.
Still, complaints that 2.0 is less fun...
I don't think humanity deserves the work of others... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
The other day I was in Central processing on Caged and had managed to hide a sensory nearby. The marines had alread built both RT's and were trying to secure it. I just sat in that room and killed them over and over. The com never scanned the room and I guess the marines were lulled into a false sence of security because their RT's were intact. I tried to take down the res but they kept coming back too fast for me to kill the RT's. So I killed about 5 TF's and prolly a dozen marines, until i got enough to go onos. As I was gestating, 4 marines came into the room and tried to build again. I was a cloaked egg in the corner. They were covering each other as one of them built. I almost felt bad when I finished gestating and ripped them to pieces, they were finally doing it right, only to be rewarded by a horn up the butt!
So, all in all, it can very well be that the biggest part of NS' community is happy with the game and finds it fun.
(I wasn't comming any of these games, but still)
"don't build that there u n00b comm" (turret factory in base)
"JP! I need a friggin jp." (don't you need an proto for one of these? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->)
'OMG! EJECT COMM! EJECT COMM!" (about 30 seconds after the previous message)
"Jo have been owned by ta l337 hax0r" (after killing a skulk with a shotgun)
"god you suck at the gl. I could have done it 1000 times better" (after i take out a WOL with a 600 ping and 3 skulks on my ****)
"u n00b. we have too many gorges" (after I become the 3rd gorge on a team of 9)
"OMG! Don't go lerk yer useless" (although i'd have to agree on a 2.01c server, this wasn't one)
"Will a friggin' gorge put up the friggin' hive?" (says someone who was gestating. 30 seconds later he's an onos... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->)
"god u suck. grow some pubes!" (after a fade takes out one HA in the train and dies. Don't ask my what pubic hair has to do with killing HAs. I don't know either.)
Of course, I always saw some of this behavoir on 1.04 servers, but it's getting way out of control lately. I can't blame the admins, because they generally don't care about what is team_sayed if they're on the other team, and many servers don't consider being "l337" a kickable offense. But yeah, I'm finding my teammates less and less enjoyable to play with. Perhaps it's because I can no longer get on [COFR] for more than 5 minutes without getting kicked due to slot reservation. But perhaps NS is attracting some of the brain dead counter-strike players.
Maybe thier just having a bad day?? altho the people with the binds that say im teh l337 haxor i do feel sorry for tho.
Altho i have to admit i do sometimes say noob at the comm after explaining for the 50th zillion time why leccying a lone RT in 2.0 is a waste of 30 res but noo they dont listern and do it anyway and the first skulk that comes along eats it and thier like WTH a skulk just ate my leccy RT without getting hurt and im like well yer i did tell u 50 times not to leccy any RTs without a TF as backup but noo they wouldnt take notice of me. Comms that dont take notice of thier marines lose 9-10 times.
Anyway its true that games such as AOE/SWGB get old and boring very fast as death said.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Too much, in fact - the way the game is made, you NEED to have unit A, and only A, to kill unit Type B. C, despite having large cannons, cannot kill B, contrary to the laws of physics, physical strength and reality<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Altho i did find stronghold rather fun now and again playing the seige maps <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
To get a balance of reality aswell as fun is very hard people often play games cus their as far away from reality as they can be as such can be fun, while games such as NS are closer to reality have a much harder time keeping the fun factor, Thier are aliens yes its possible, guns that fire through walls AKA seiges unlikely but still possible, LMG/HMG/GLs are all very close to guns in real life. Takes games such as Rainbow Six is it fun no not by a long shot yet games such as Ghost Ops have great ratings and are fun, i loved Project IGI it was great fun as it was hard and trying to overcome the hardness was fun IMO
In short games that are far from reality have it easy trying to create the "fun factor" as u can do just about anything with the game to make it fun, while games like NS,Ghost Ops,Project IGI have it alot harder as they have to keep within the constrates of reality as such its alot harder to maintain the "fun factor" and for those games that do i respect the game makers and the people that help make it such fun.
Anyway the only other problem with the "fun factor" is the people that play the games yes CS was fun way back in 1.3 when the game made sense and people played proper and fair yes thier were more cheaters but thier was less of the l337 crap talk that i hate so much. I cant spell proper so thats makes me so L337 what aload of bull, i admit i cant spell all that good but i dont go out my way to make the words look crap stupid **** Quake talk has no place in NS. Anyway getting back to the point its often the players that make a game fun not just the game itself CS is a fun game but its the fact the players make it such a bad game u dont have this problem in single player games but in mutiplayer u do games such as diablo2 were great fun when they first came out but now because of the hacks and cheats and exploits a person trying to play the game proper gets laughed at, that and the PKers make the game not worth playing......
Anyway the way it goes is.... The other thing that comes into play is peoples opinions i like this game cus its my taste yet i dont like this cus its not my taste etc.
Single Player
Game= Good-Bad
Mutiplayer
Game-Players= Good-Bad
Geez why can i never write a short post i swear all of them are over a page..
It doesn't have to be that way. Total Annihilation (RTS) had excellent graphics (3D units, terrain prerendered but also 3D, I think it was the best-looking RTS at the time), and it's an excellent game. Games like combat flight sims are more fun with good graphics, especially for low-altitude flight. Of course, at some point you get diminishing returns. Going from a flat plane with some pyramids to heightmaps is a very nice change. Getting better resolution heightmaps or nicer textures also improves things, but not as significantly as the first change.
Balance is a bigger problem. It doesn't prevent fun, but it does remove one of the tools to make things fun. When games were mostly single-player, they could entertain the player a bit by occasionally giving him the opportunity to use crazy superweapons, or by putting a load of enemies in a disadvantaged position allowing the player to slaughter them. That's a nice change from the usual difficulty of games. However, when the enemies are other humans, it wouldn't be fun for them to be put in a defenceless (or nearly so) position. So that can have an effect on fun. It doesn't mean you can't have fun, but the really overpowered weapon sort of fun has to go, and be replaced by other things.