Ns performance and server

neko

<div class="IPBDescription">2 questions</div>Howdy,

I was thinking about NS and I had 2 questions:

1. How do the RC's perform on your systems, playtesters? I know that NS is a pretty art intensive and feature intensive mod for HL, so what kind of framerates are you getting? I'm the kind of nerd that loves to see 99 flickering up in the top left corner at all times <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

2. Is NS "dedicated server friendly"? By this I mean that is NS structured so that you can run a dedicated server with little administration? For example, most HL mods run games continuously, changing maps every 30 minutes or so (eg CS, DoD, TFC, blah blah). Also, is it quick and painless to get into the action? This is probably in the forums somewhere but I can't find it. I think default settings for games are pretty important, as they could be considered a 'standard' for that game. I also hated in some games where you have to wait in a lobby to join a game and can't spectate or anything.

3. I was curious about a Linux server, but ye-old forum search turned up plenty of threads already <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

Keep up the great work Flarya and co - NS is looking great!

Oh and MonsE regarding that big debate over Linux vs Windows I do know that an ISP in Oz (optus) has switched to pure linux servers because of performance reasons - they can fit more game servers on each machine than windows, which were lagging to hell.

neko

Relic25

1. It wouldn't be at all accurate to answer that right now.  During playtests, things like debugging mode create a higher demand, and it has been stated many times that the code is not optimized yet.  So any answer that another playtester could give you right now would likely be different after the next playtest.  As far as the effect on framerate due to texture load, transparencies, animations, sprites, HUD artwork, etc., it will, in all probability, be comparable to any other HL mod, and will depend largely on your own settings and your video card.  AS an aside, I get a kick out of hearing people complaining if their framerates aren't around or above the 100 mark.  Yes, I understand that higher numbers make game<i>play</i> smoother to a degree, and possibly help with reflexes and accuracy, but I find it funny that the typical monitor only refreshes at around 72 to 80 times a second, and HL can report framrates higher than that.  On top of that, the human eye can only detect an average of 60 cycles per second.  This is why flourescent bulbs cycle on and off 60 times per second, because to the human eye, it appears as though it's constantly lit.  At times, you can see a flourescent light 'flicker', usually because it was unable to keep up that frequency and has diiped in cycles enough that your eye can detect the off states.  Just some trivia, that's all.

2. I can't answer the server-side questions yet.  However, for your question about how easy is it to join, I can say that this is a very well designed part of NS.  As with everything else, this is STC, but a player may join at any time and will appear in the 'readyroom' of the current map.  He may stay and chat with other players in the RR, or he may join either team, a random team, or he may choose to observe (spectate) the current match.



<!--EDIT|Relic25|July 27 2002,10:08-->

TiCK

In a mod like TFC I get about 25 fps in good areas and 9-15 in action sequences...

NS worries me. =/

ssj_yoda

i would say an upgrade is in order if u get fps that low.

TiCK

<!--QuoteBegin--ssj_yoda+July 27 2002,11:03--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (ssj_yoda @ July 27 2002,11:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->i would say an upgrade is in order if u get fps that low.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Send me 900$ and I will.

Legionnaired

You dont need 900, just 2-300 and some computer knowledge.

coil

I was playing NS on a 4-year-old machine (P2 266) until about a month ago... my FPS averaged about 10 (at 640x480), and the game was not unplayable, but definitely frustrating.  Eventually, everyone must upgrade, my friend.

TiCK

<!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+July 27 2002,11:12--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Legionnaired @ July 27 2002,11:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->You dont need 900, just 2-300 and some computer knowledge.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have no knowledge of my system, champ. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

f3rret

Meh, the bottleneck has to be somewhere. If it's your CPU, then you'll need a new MoBo, CPU, and RAM. That'll get pricey, but should not be more than $400 CDN. Just be smart about it. You can still use your old case (unless it's tiny).

Snake13

I get exactly 60 all the time, my computer won't let ir go above 60, but i know there is a option somewhere that lets it go higher, anyone know where that is?

Kidzelda

fps_max #
#=fps cap. It wont go any higher than this number.

BedwettingType

AFAIK, fps_max is at 72 by default, so it can't be that.  What's limiting your FPS is probably your monitor's refresh rate.  If your monitor supports it, click on your desktop > Properties > Settings > Advanced > Adapter, and try something like 75 Hz.  If it looks all garbled, then try turning off VSync, which should be somewhere in your video card's properties.  There may be some "tearing," but you'll have a higher FPS.

BTW, hello Kid. =)

neko

<!--QuoteBegin--Relic25+July 27 2002,09:55--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Relic25 @ July 27 2002,09:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. It wouldn't be at all accurate to answer that right now.  During playtests, things like debugging mode create a higher demand, and it has been stated many times that the code is not optimized yet.  So any answer that another playtester could give you right now would likely be different after the next playtest.  As far as the effect on framerate due to texture load, transparencies, animations, sprites, HUD artwork, etc., it will, in all probability, be comparable to any other HL mod, and will depend largely on your own settings and your video card.  AS an aside, I get a kick out of hearing people complaining if their framerates aren't around or above the 100 mark.  Yes, I understand that higher numbers make game<i>play</i> smoother to a degree, and possibly help with reflexes and accuracy, but I find it funny that the typical monitor only refreshes at around 72 to 80 times a second, and HL can report framrates higher than that.  On top of that, the human eye can only detect an average of 60 cycles per second.  This is why flourescent bulbs cycle on and off 60 times per second, because to the human eye, it appears as though it's constantly lit.  At times, you can see a flourescent light 'flicker', usually because it was unable to keep up that frequency and has diiped in cycles enough that your eye can detect the off states.  Just some trivia, that's all.

2. I can't answer the server-side questions yet.  However, for your question about how easy is it to join, I can say that this is a very well designed part of NS.  As with everything else, this is STC, but a player may join at any time and will appear in the 'readyroom' of the current map.  He may stay and chat with other players in the RR, or he may join either team, a random team, or he may choose to observe (spectate) the current match.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, thanks for the info, Relic, I appreciate it. Some points to add

1. My monitor's refresh rate is locked to 120hz at 1024 (which I play most HL games in) so 99 fps is just dandy. ALL of my gaming friends have monitors that can push refresh rates at 100 or higher for 800 and 1024 resolutions. I think for gamers, the 'typical' monitor is more than adequate for HL.

2. I want 99 FPS because when the sh!t hits the fan, I want some "fps buffer" in place to handle slowdowns. I don't care that it says 99 when I stare at a wall, but I DO care that it says 35 when there are lvl5's, turrets, bobs and the like swarming around me.

3. I don't believe that there is a 'hard' limit to the 'frames per second' a human eye can perceive. I think that's a common misconception. Check <a href="http://amo.net/NT/02-21-01FPS.html" target="_blank">this website article</a> dealing with the issue of the human eye. Remember that computers don't have the luxury of motion blurring as TV's do.

4. HL's default fps_max is 75, not 72 (other poster)

5. If your fps is locked at 60, use <a href="http://www.entechtaiwan.com/ps.htm" target="_blank">Powerstrip</a> to lock the refresh rate for certain resolutions. Trust me, ignore anyone who tries to claim otherwise, you WILL see and 'feel' a difference. ALso note that powerstrip can change gamma on the fly, which will be an issue for hiding in the dark for NS.

6. Turning vsync off is a great idea if you can lock your monitor to 120hz. I don't notice any 'screen tearing'.

7. Apparently it's good to tick 'use fast-linear-mipmap-linear filtering' because you get a slight performance gain for no discernable loss in quality. Read <a href="http://www.guru3d.com/guide/detonator-explanation/index3.shtml" target="_blank">here</a> for more info.

cheers all for the discussion,
neko

Kidzelda

The only game I get slowdown on is <a href="http://www.planet-action.net" target="_blank">Action Half-life</a>, because of the 3d bits of wall that go flying when you shoot them.And, if your playing TDM or DM, I get a good loss as the bodies pile up.Otherwise, you have nothing to worry about.