<!--QuoteBegin--mitchell+Aug 17 2003, 10:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mitchell @ Aug 17 2003, 10:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...onii with redemption are a pain in the ****... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, but that is pretty much all they are, however much you hate them for repeatedly devouring one person at a time that is all they are doing.
Onos redemption is mainly a game prolonger, it does no real damage, yet keeps the marines at bay.
Example: Marines in hera spawn, being repeatedly attacked by 1-2 oni, both with redemption, the onos/oni devour one man, who by the time they get a second chance to attack, has probably respawned. Chances are that any marine to leave the base will be instantly ripped by invisible skulks or the like.
If you really want a game finisher, 4 regen oni are your solution. I have yet to see it fail.
Remember: An onos with regen can STILL retreat, not having redemption does not mean waiting around to die.
To oni everywhere: Use Regen, and stick in large groups with an outpost at moderate distance from marine spawn, if you are no llama, and are trying to finish the game, this is the way to do it.
<!--QuoteBegin--Diablus+Aug 17 2003, 09:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Diablus @ Aug 17 2003, 09:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> regeneration is the best upgrade, i used to get redempt but i HATE sitting in a hive slowly healing when my team might need me the most, regen= 50 hp per click + devour = 52 per click = teh pwn <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its 45 a tick with regen 3 and 48 a tick with regen 3 and an unhappymeal.
Edit: Marines are not happymeals, they get very unhappy when devoured.
[QUOTE] from Zek "If the point is that you feel that a single stock marine should be able to take out a 100 res Onos, then yes, I do. And it doesn't make any sense. Devoting a couple marines to base defense is standard procedure. And trust me, your base would be in much more trouble if all of these onoses had regen; they still mostly wouldn't die, but they'd be attacking you much more often and to much greater effect. If you want to gripe about Onos so be it, but understand that redemption ones are a poor example of their power."
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Its not that I think a single marine should be able to take an Onos, the point is that those 100 res spent on that Onos never is really used up. Turrets and chambers are built and then destroyed (RES GONE). Equipment is lost when marines are killed (RES GONE). Onos is redeemed (NO LOSS OF RES). This is why the inequality gets worse as the game goes on.
Okay, I'd like to add that a <i>class</i> upgrade to go with regeneration is celerity. It works <i>very</i> well with the regen mindset (get in, do damage, get out, heal). You get there faster, get out faster, and usually by the time you're running out of energy you probably should be retreating anyway. Also, when you have the health to get back in, you'll probably have full energy, too. And there's really no way the marines can catch up to you and finish you off, unless they have jetpacks (which is like, never). This is why I always try to get movement and defense as the first two chambers.
redem is just **** in all areas. its just cheap that u can get an onos for life, he may not last as long as a regen or errr carapace (what ever that is <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) onos in a fight but it is very hard to kill one. when i have used it the only ever time i have ever died is with turret farm and a few hmgs. aliens wouldnt like it as soon as a marine got some equipment he kept spawning with it afterwards.
I played a game on 2.0 where marines were doing well for a change we had pretty much all upgrades and a variety of weapons. still when we tried to push forward to make an attack we couldnt really do anything, we pushed ahead one room but we were stuck we just couldnt stop the constant flow of fade attacks and onos (this was 3rd hive stuff) when we did "kill" an alien it didnt actualy die it just came back in a few secs.
the thing with redem is the player doesnt fear dieing cos he knows he aint gonner have to spend the res and the time to evolve up if he has the res. so he attacks constantly, a fade with redem is a **** as well cos they can get around the map so fast that he is back in the same spot in a few secs. if we were able to kill the aliens we would have had a fighting chance.
a redem onos with an SC and adren is a nasty bit of work. he just apears infront of u hammers u to death + stomp so ur other guys cant get hits on even if u did "kill" him he just came back at least if we really killed him he would have been a lower life form.
that game i played the only ever onos that died was a regen one. i prefer to have a chance of killing an onos to get rid of him for awhile then have weaker ones constantly attacking u that u cant really kill.
<!--QuoteBegin--Mick+Aug 18 2003, 05:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mick @ Aug 18 2003, 05:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its not that I think a single marine should be able to take an Onos, the point is that those 100 res spent on that Onos never is really used up. Turrets and chambers are built and then destroyed (RES GONE). Equipment is lost when marines are killed (RES GONE). Onos is redeemed (NO LOSS OF RES). This is why the inequality gets worse as the game goes on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Incorrect. The fact is that when you choose redeem for an onos you never really use his 100 res at all.
An onos with redeem can't kill too much at all before he is redeemed. If marines have to deal with lots of redeeming aliens, and the marines are still in the game, all they must do is attack. Redeeming aliens are terribly weak and are taken out of action extremely fast. Once you are encroching at their hive a redeeming onos is useless on defense. He will redeem before any significant amount of damage is done. If the redeeming onos is being redeemed to a hive which is under attack, he is powerless to stop it, all he can do is die, and the res loss from this is enourmous not to mention the loss of tech.
Take these numbers for example:
It takes 55 LMG bullets to kill an onos if the LMG is lv. 3 and the onos has no defensive upgrades. With redeem, the onos actually takes somewhere around the 40 bullet mark, since he redeems with 20-30% of his hp. The math is simple. Redeem onos sucks. Now, a single marine will never make the onos redeem, because the onos has stomp, but say you have 3 marines, so the onos cannot stomp them all at once(providing they have enough room to evade the stomp, which is usually the case; the onos is effectively useless, he will redeem before anything dies or any damage is done. The redeeming onos cannot be killed unless really lucky, and by the same measure the redeeming onos cannot kill much unless really lucky(by this I mean sucky marines).
Redempt onos, really is, worthless by all accounts.
Yah, in reality.....if you're dealing with a bunch of redeem onos weirdos, all you need to do is mount a nice little offensive. Even with 1 HMG, those redeem onos will do no damage to your squad, especially if you have full upgrades......leaving you free to build up a siege place and blow up thier hive.
sometimes when im marine and I know they are maybe 3 redeem onos out there i go for the hive,if im lucky they havnt defended the hive and moahaha I just sit there and wait,and when redemption tick in for that onos hes dead meat. but I agree If you wanna do damage then you should take regeneration onos. Regeneration onos with umbra is unstoppable only thing that hurt them are nades and shotguns but since in the server I am playing in have nerfed the shotgun onos there are like in godmode with umbra
Comments
Yes, but that is pretty much all they are, however much you hate them for repeatedly devouring one person at a time that is all they are doing.
Onos redemption is mainly a game prolonger, it does no real damage, yet keeps the marines at bay.
Example: Marines in hera spawn, being repeatedly attacked by 1-2 oni, both with redemption, the onos/oni devour one man, who by the time they get a second chance to attack, has probably respawned. Chances are that any marine to leave the base will be instantly ripped by invisible skulks or the like.
If you really want a game finisher, 4 regen oni are your solution. I have yet to see it fail.
Remember: An onos with regen can STILL retreat, not having redemption does not mean waiting around to die.
To oni everywhere: Use Regen, and stick in large groups with an outpost at moderate distance from marine spawn, if you are no llama, and are trying to finish the game, this is the way to do it.
Its 45 a tick with regen 3 and 48 a tick with regen 3 and an unhappymeal.
Edit: Marines are not happymeals, they get very unhappy when devoured.
"If the point is that you feel that a single stock marine should be able to take out a 100 res Onos, then yes, I do. And it doesn't make any sense. Devoting a couple marines to base defense is standard procedure. And trust me, your base would be in much more trouble if all of these onoses had regen; they still mostly wouldn't die, but they'd be attacking you much more often and to much greater effect. If you want to gripe about Onos so be it, but understand that redemption ones are a poor example of their power."
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Its not that I think a single marine should be able to take an Onos, the point is that those 100 res spent on that Onos never is really used up. Turrets and chambers are built and then destroyed (RES GONE). Equipment is lost when marines are killed (RES GONE). Onos is redeemed (NO LOSS OF RES). This is why the inequality gets worse as the game goes on.
I played a game on 2.0 where marines were doing well for a change we had pretty much all upgrades and a variety of weapons. still when we tried to push forward to make an attack we couldnt really do anything, we pushed ahead one room but we were stuck we just couldnt stop the constant flow of fade attacks and onos (this was 3rd hive stuff) when we did "kill" an alien it didnt actualy die it just came back in a few secs.
the thing with redem is the player doesnt fear dieing cos he knows he aint gonner have to spend the res and the time to evolve up if he has the res. so he attacks constantly, a fade with redem is a **** as well cos they can get around the map so fast that he is back in the same spot in a few secs. if we were able to kill the aliens we would have had a fighting chance.
a redem onos with an SC and adren is a nasty bit of work. he just apears infront of u hammers u to death + stomp so ur other guys cant get hits on even if u did "kill" him he just came back at least if we really killed him he would have been a lower life form.
that game i played the only ever onos that died was a regen one. i prefer to have a chance of killing an onos to get rid of him for awhile then have weaker ones constantly attacking u that u cant really kill.
Incorrect. The fact is that when you choose redeem for an onos you never really use his 100 res at all.
An onos with redeem can't kill too much at all before he is redeemed. If marines have to deal with lots of redeeming aliens, and the marines are still in the game, all they must do is attack. Redeeming aliens are terribly weak and are taken out of action extremely fast. Once you are encroching at their hive a redeeming onos is useless on defense. He will redeem before any significant amount of damage is done. If the redeeming onos is being redeemed to a hive which is under attack, he is powerless to stop it, all he can do is die, and the res loss from this is enourmous not to mention the loss of tech.
Take these numbers for example:
It takes 55 LMG bullets to kill an onos if the LMG is lv. 3 and the onos has no defensive upgrades. With redeem, the onos actually takes somewhere around the 40 bullet mark, since he redeems with 20-30% of his hp. The math is simple. Redeem onos sucks. Now, a single marine will never make the onos redeem, because the onos has stomp, but say you have 3 marines, so the onos cannot stomp them all at once(providing they have enough room to evade the stomp, which is usually the case; the onos is effectively useless, he will redeem before anything dies or any damage is done. The redeeming onos cannot be killed unless really lucky, and by the same measure the redeeming onos cannot kill much unless really lucky(by this I mean sucky marines).
Redempt onos, really is, worthless by all accounts.
Mainly because i can focus myself on the fighting.