I have completed everything for Port "except" I am still deleting unecessary brushes, putting the null tex on things, and touching up the texture placement. After I am done completely with the original copy I will be working on an "enhanced" DarkATi version. I do not know if these changes will fly but I assure you that they are necssary, it doesn't matter anyway I'll be sending you "the original.rmf" and "my version.rmf" for review so you can pick, well actually it should be up to DD so I'll prolly post 'em both here.
Here's a breif and incomplete changelog for the DarkATi Version:
-o Raising the hive to a new higher ceiling area. I believe this is necessary in 2.0 because everyone is a little more Onos crazy. Back in the 1.04 days Onos weren't seen to often. As a matter of fact I remember people would say all the time, "go fade man, not onos." But now in 2.0 people like their Onos' I don't see any way in hell that more than one maybe two onos could be in Port together at the same time. This is the most significant change and the one that I am really rooting for.
-o Simpifying Textures used. DD used a million different textures throughout the Nancy Hives and they just don't look that spectacular. (Yeah I said it ha ha.) Mish-Mashed and Jumbled.
-o Expanding the area. I am going to expand Port just a little. I will expand it in a way so taht it will still fit perfectly in with the rest of the map however. This is again mainly for Onos, but I mean basically the whole area is cramped. Chlostrophobic people are saying, "nooooo!".
-o Making the Engine structure look, like an engine. [Self-Explanatory]
Like I said I don't know if these changes will fly with DD or Lazer or Flayra r anybody but I think some changes could eb made to Port. I'm only trying to change it because I love it so much, honest, I just want to make it better so if no one likes my changes or they don't stick then that's A-OK.
I agree ATi. It does need to be increased in size a little. Onos won't fit in there that much. Hive could be raised a little, but I like to leave a little room ontop of the hive for a marine to land on it. It makes a small room a little more jetpack friendly. (for 15 res you SHOULD be able to get a bit of a benefit when attacking a hive)
I'm really happy about the progress I'm seeing though. The only real places left are the hallways and the marine spawn area. If we get this done really soon it could possibly make the 2.1 deadline. But there is no rush. Then we can make bigger updates to the map at later times if needed. We first need to see how the original works with 2.0 as it is right now. Slight layout changes can be made after we know what needs to be fixed.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lightning Blue+Aug 28 2003, 04:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lightning Blue @ Aug 28 2003, 04:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> TBH: I'd say make it exact, then let DD change it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ya i know, I'm gonna run it by him first. But he did say this: <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think I've recieved maybe 2 emails (one recently) about rebuilding nancy, and I had thought it was clear from previous threads I've answered I'm not going to do it, due to time and the desire to work on something new for NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not sure if this means he doesn't want to keep updating it though.
I took that as meaning he didn't have time to build it from scratch <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And, also, I don't think jetpacks should be allowed on top of hives, but that's just me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Some pictures of the raised Hive in Port, more coming soon. Err actually this picture is to show you that I made the grating see-through on the floor, raised hive pics in a sec.
It's not gonna take very long to make an updated version at all, it's just fun for me if nothing else, though I really think that these upgrades especially the raised hive would be beneficial.
Like I said other than final touches the original version is done, so DD or Lazer or whoever can decide which to use. I am just creating this to show people some new tricks that this old dog might be able to learn. Or something like that, perhaps a bad analogy but I think you get the picture.
Sounds like the 'improvements' I'm making to Subspace hive.
Mostly it's reducing the texture-count so it's more stable across the entire hive. It's pretty much done at this point, just have to texture the upper 'wall chunk' right by the ceiling and I can start work on Mother Interface. BTW, Dark ATi, you want me to send you the mostly-rebrushed room just outside Port, so you can continue working on it and finish it up, since you're handling Port as it is? I figure I can just handle my 'quadrant' of the map, and let you have yours, so we don't all have to jump willy-nilly all over the place. :-)
Right now, I'm just pleased as peaches with one huge improvement I've made to Subspace hive that's purely gameplay-oriented and doesn't affect the visuals a single bit. I made the damn pipes in the ceiling skulk-friendly with NULL-textured func_walls, so it's easy to get to the vent now. :-)
This brings up an interesting trick, use func_walls with nothing but the NULL-texture on them to make clip-brushes for skulks. They don't affect r_speeds at all, so they really do act like skulk-climbable clip-brushes. :-)
Especially with all the hell Nancy had been for Skulks in the past, this could allow us to really improve gameplay on that map by letting Skulks climb willy-nilly instead of having to fight with every last bit of map geometry.
Here is the finished .rmf. I have included the .rad file as well in the zip. It may need some brushes removed I couldn't find what was BS and what was a part of the original in some areas. (Oh I;m talking about the outside. Anyway, make some changes to it and then get back with me. Also if you want to add my values toy our rad file here is all you have to add / update, just two, err three. Maybe four, ha ha...
Previous download of the 'spiral ramp room' removed after being obtained by appropriate parties. And 3 others. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you don't horribly mind DarkATi, I'm taking a whirl around your port engine room to see if I can straighten out some of those brushes you said were giving you problems. The BSP broke the walls in some really odd looking places, so I can see why you were confused by the .map that minsk handed out. It's mostly "simple" things like pulling lights out of ceilings and filling in the hole, to make it easier to work with later., and a few other little things like that (at least that's how it looks so far... I may hit something really ugly before I'm done).
Although, since you've pulled the link, do you want me to see if I can straighten it out now? Or wait until you're done? (you don't have to post again if you want me to give it a shot.. I already downloaded it)
mmm looking good <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And yes, I'm working on a new NS map. Hopefully it will make the cut. I'm dying to test it / have some screenies posted, but at this time, it can't. So, hopefully *soon* it'll be pimped, and just as hopeful, it will go in as well. Course, the latter all depends on testers reactions and how well its plays.
Can't wait to see it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Spook+Aug 28 2003, 06:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spook @ Aug 28 2003, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you don't horribly mind DarkATi, I'm taking a whirl around your port engine room to see if I can straighten out some of those brushes you said were giving you problems. The BSP broke the walls in some really odd looking places, so I can see why you were confused by the .map that minsk handed out. It's mostly "simple" things like pulling lights out of ceilings and filling in the hole, to make it easier to work with later., and a few other little things like that (at least that's how it looks so far... I may hit something really ugly before I'm done).
Although, since you've pulled the link, do you want me to see if I can straighten it out now? Or wait until you're done? (you don't have to post again if you want me to give it a shot.. I already downloaded it) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's the reason why I pulled it. So thank you very much for the offer but I've been correcting these issues myself all day today and will be tonight on into tomorrow.
I appreciate really, but I think I have it under wraps now. Thanks again.
<!--QuoteBegin--Spook+Aug 28 2003, 07:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spook @ Aug 28 2003, 07:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All right. If you've figured out what's going on with the .map, more power too you. Can't wait to see it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks, I didn't wanna seem like I was ugh putting you off or anything, it's just I've been working since i removed taht download to fix thos brushes and I'm pretty sure I have most of them. I think I'll look over it again tomorrow morning and then hopefully post it tomorrow night. Please don't slap me with a trout. Thanks.
Seems a lot of work is being done. Not sure if any one knows but here is a bsp viewer and a tool that prints out information about items contained in BSP files. <a href='http://www.planethalflife.com/botman/bsp_tool.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.planethalflife.com/botman/bsp_tool.shtml</a> Not sure if it works so don't kill me. Keep up the good work.
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Aug 28 2003, 09:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Aug 28 2003, 09:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually, you get a copy of my file so I can pull that down yet? Thought I'd ask before tac-nuking it. :-) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not sure if you're talking to me about spiral.zip, but yes I have downloaded it.
Alright to Lazer and Wolf Wings and Any one else involved in remaking Nancy or interested in the business concerning remodelling Nancy. I am remodelling Port, the area outside port, which I forget the name of, the area with the pillar, all the way to the end of the Sub-Tunnel. I know Lazer that you have Aux. Gen damn near complete, this way you'll be able to just stick the Sub-Tunnel Doorway with the Corresponding Aux Gen Doorway and have a hell of a lot more completed map. Thank You for the .map file Wolf Wing. I'm setting my tentative release date at the 30th or 31st of this month.
I really like the raised Hive, I am not going to make any more changes, just please tell me if you like the Raised Hive and if it stays. I cannot easily expand Port so with the Hive raised at least we have a bit of more room for the Onos to meandor around in. If worst comes to worst and during play-testing Nancy the Onos "still" do not have enough room then I will expand the Engine Room, however right now it's low on my list of things to do.
I just wanted to thank everyone here who gave me advice, helped me, etc. I really appreciate it I can't tell you how thrilled I am to be such a part of this fabulous projectl Thanks everybody.
Lazer, if you could tell me tonight wether the raised hive is in or out I'd appreciate it but any day's fine really I 'spose.
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkATi+Aug 28 2003, 07:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Aug 28 2003, 07:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thank You for the .map file Wolf Wing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> First, you're quite welcome. I'm glad I could help. :-)
Second, it's actually Wolfwing<b><i>s</i></b> to be correct. The extra capital W is meant to imply an extra 'stress' is put on that part of the name, not just the first W like many people place it, and the S at the end is meant to be pronounced. :-)
And what should I do next? I think I'm going to work on the crew locker room since it branches off of Auxiliary Generator. When I get the rmf of port Auxiliary Command and the vent / shaft thing connecting to Auxiliary Generator I'll connect the two. Then all we would have to do is finish marine start and the subspace area. After that finish a few hallways, the whole vent system, and any remaining details / tweaks and we're done I think...
Holy god it's Noname hive and the rest of the map....
rawr
BTW,that tool that Vahn posted does work,its just a hard thing to work with....that way you can get the whole vent system in place,but then of course you know how intricate the vent system is :\
Comments
Here's a breif and incomplete changelog for the DarkATi Version:
-o Raising the hive to a new higher ceiling area. I believe this is necessary in 2.0 because everyone is a little more Onos crazy. Back in the 1.04 days Onos weren't seen to often. As a matter of fact I remember people would say all the time, "go fade man, not onos." But now in 2.0 people like their Onos' I don't see any way in hell that more than one maybe two onos could be in Port together at the same time. This is the most significant change and the one that I am really rooting for.
-o Simpifying Textures used. DD used a million different textures throughout the Nancy Hives and they just don't look that spectacular. (Yeah I said it ha ha.) Mish-Mashed and Jumbled.
-o Expanding the area. I am going to expand Port just a little. I will expand it in a way so taht it will still fit perfectly in with the rest of the map however. This is again mainly for Onos, but I mean basically the whole area is cramped. Chlostrophobic people are saying, "nooooo!".
-o Making the Engine structure look, like an engine. [Self-Explanatory]
Like I said I don't know if these changes will fly with DD or Lazer or Flayra r anybody but I think some changes could eb made to Port. I'm only trying to change it because I love it so much, honest, I just want to make it better so if no one likes my changes or they don't stick then that's A-OK.
Thanks,
~ DarkATi
I'm really happy about the progress I'm seeing though. The only real places left are the hallways and the marine spawn area. If we get this done really soon it could possibly make the 2.1 deadline. But there is no rush. Then we can make bigger updates to the map at later times if needed. We first need to see how the original works with 2.0 as it is right now. Slight layout changes can be made after we know what needs to be fixed.
Ya i know, I'm gonna run it by him first. But he did say this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think I've recieved maybe 2 emails (one recently) about rebuilding nancy, and I had thought it was clear from previous threads I've answered I'm not going to do it, due to time and the desire to work on something new for NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure if this means he doesn't want to keep updating it though.
And, also, I don't think jetpacks should be allowed on top of hives, but that's just me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi
Like I said other than final touches the original version is done, so DD or Lazer or whoever can decide which to use. I am just creating this to show people some new tricks that this old dog might be able to learn. Or something like that, perhaps a bad analogy but I think you get the picture.
~ DarkATi
Mostly it's reducing the texture-count so it's more stable across the entire hive. It's pretty much done at this point, just have to texture the upper 'wall chunk' right by the ceiling and I can start work on Mother Interface. BTW, Dark ATi, you want me to send you the mostly-rebrushed room just outside Port, so you can continue working on it and finish it up, since you're handling Port as it is? I figure I can just handle my 'quadrant' of the map, and let you have yours, so we don't all have to jump willy-nilly all over the place. :-)
Right now, I'm just pleased as peaches with one huge improvement I've made to Subspace hive that's purely gameplay-oriented and doesn't affect the visuals a single bit. I made the damn pipes in the ceiling skulk-friendly with NULL-textured func_walls, so it's easy to get to the vent now. :-)
This brings up an interesting trick, use func_walls with nothing but the NULL-texture on them to make clip-brushes for skulks. They don't affect r_speeds at all, so they really do act like skulk-climbable clip-brushes. :-)
Especially with all the hell Nancy had been for Skulks in the past, this could allow us to really improve gameplay on that map by letting Skulks climb willy-nilly instead of having to fight with every last bit of map geometry.
~LIGHT3B 155 155 235 5000
~SPOTBLUE 20 255 188 3000
r6_light2 20 255 188 3000
~LIGHT5E 255 15 15 6500
Nice.
SLAPS SELF sorry this isn't done what the hell was I thinking it's missing alot.
~ DarkATi
~ DarkATi
Although, since you've pulled the link, do you want me to see if I can straighten it out now? Or wait until you're done? (you don't have to post again if you want me to give it a shot.. I already downloaded it)
And yes, I'm working on a new NS map. Hopefully it will make the cut. I'm dying to test it / have some screenies posted, but at this time, it can't. So, hopefully *soon* it'll be pimped, and just as hopeful, it will go in as well. Course, the latter all depends on testers reactions and how well its plays.
I cant help in anyway.
But I REALLY loved NS nancy.
If you bring it back man...
Like...
You would...
Rule...
Although, since you've pulled the link, do you want me to see if I can straighten it out now? Or wait until you're done? (you don't have to post again if you want me to give it a shot.. I already downloaded it) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the reason why I pulled it. So thank you very much for the offer but I've been correcting these issues myself all day today and will be tonight on into tomorrow.
I appreciate really, but I think I have it under wraps now. Thanks again.
~ DarkATi
Thanks, I didn't wanna seem like I was ugh putting you off or anything, it's just I've been working since i removed taht download to fix thos brushes and I'm pretty sure I have most of them. I think I'll look over it again tomorrow morning and then hopefully post it tomorrow night. Please don't slap me with a trout. Thanks.
~ DarkATi
Not sure if it works so don't kill me. Keep up the good work.
Not sure if you're talking to me about spiral.zip, but yes I have downloaded it.
~ DarkATi
I really like the raised Hive, I am not going to make any more changes, just please tell me if you like the Raised Hive and if it stays. I cannot easily expand Port so with the Hive raised at least we have a bit of more room for the Onos to meandor around in. If worst comes to worst and during play-testing Nancy the Onos "still" do not have enough room then I will expand the Engine Room, however right now it's low on my list of things to do.
I just wanted to thank everyone here who gave me advice, helped me, etc. I really appreciate it I can't tell you how thrilled I am to be such a part of this fabulous projectl Thanks everybody.
Lazer, if you could tell me tonight wether the raised hive is in or out I'd appreciate it but any day's fine really I 'spose.
~ DarkATi
First, you're quite welcome. I'm glad I could help. :-)
Second, it's actually Wolfwing<b><i>s</i></b> to be correct. The extra capital W is meant to imply an extra 'stress' is put on that part of the name, not just the first W like many people place it, and the S at the end is meant to be pronounced. :-)
Mother:
rawr
BTW,that tool that Vahn posted does work,its just a hard thing to work with....that way you can get the whole vent system in place,but then of course you know how intricate the vent system is :\