Well, before I bought my first own PC I've had many discussions with my parents (and other family members) about spending time on the computer, violent computer games and such topics. I'll go a bit off-topic and talk also about "being on the computer" in general, if it's too off topic, just tell me...
I've always tried to convince them that <b>a)</b> I (and probably most other kids) don't use the computer only for gaming. In fact, nowadays I spent more time writing, doing artwork, "coding" HTML or just listening to music or watching TV (I've a TV card).
Since my parents (and many other "elder" people" often see the computer only as something they have to use at work, they didn't accepted that for me and most members of my generation (born 1986), the computer is much more than just a "doom box".
When we first became internet access, I had even better arguments and today I can clearly say that my written English (2. language for me) greatly improved thanks for the internet. Without it, I would likely not be able to write such a "complex" text so that you can understand it.
Another preconception that the internet and especially things like E-Mail, IRC and Forums helped to adjust was that being on a computer means being anti-social.
When it came to discussions about "playing outside", well, I used to do that often when I was younger. But I also spent VERY MUCH time indoors and it's just a fact that I've always been more a stay-at-home than an excessive party-goer. The fact that, due to a handicap, I'm not a great sportsmen and often ill helped to convince my parents that the computer (paired with internet-access) is a great chance for people like me too keep contact without too much trouble, even if they're not fit enough to leave the house for some time.
Something that's also a good argument is the fact that there're many many much worse activities than spending your time on a computer. For example TV. Before we got a computer, I spent much more time on the TV, a medium that's far more "anti-social" and "uncreative/unimaginative". Although I also had arguments about "watching too much TV", this is still a valid point, since TV is in common much more accepted than computer games.
<b>b)</b> Computer games aren't just "shoot'n kill" and "anti-social".
While it's certainly clear that most computer games (that are no sport-simulations) are about killing, it's important to make clear that most (sadly not all) kids know the difference between the real world and the virtual quite well and can often distinguish both more intuitive than their parents. This "intuitivity" leads to the misconcept? that kids can't difference between reality and games. We (my generation) are so much used to virtual worlds, that we mostly doesn't even need to thing about the fact that it's unreal. We feel it. This often disturbs parents, because for them, everything in computer games looks so "real", but we just see polygons, models and every now and then a bug or glitch. When we see how in SoF 2 a limb is dismembered, we thing "cool effect", our parents thing "Oh my god, he lost his arm!" While this certainly means that we're already more or less desensitized, it also shows that we're far more aware that it's not real.
Slowly, my parents also beginn to learn that computer games aren't just "shoot'n kill", aim and trigger, but require much more. Imagine a game of NS as an alien. You need to navigate in REALLY complex environments and all dimensions (left, right, forward, backward, up, down) and use more or less complex commands to navigate (jump, fly, climb, crawl, run, walk).
You need to be aware of your environment, of obstacles and of tactical/strategical advantages/disadvantages and you've to react to them in a different manner, depending on your current role (skulk, gorge, lerk, fade, onos).
You've to keep track of the position of plenty of other things, buildings, friends and enemies to name a few (in other games, there are items, weapons etc) and you've to work with these information, again different in different roles.
Not enough that you've to keep track of these things, even they can be quite complex. It's important how much health your friend has, how fast your enemy is running, how long you'll need to reach the resource node, how the enemy commander could use this structure and what your team may expect from you to do.
Now for the "Anti-Social Gamers" argument. Me and my secon older brother are very close friends, and we usually play toegeher on the same computer, we don't even change names while playing, we both always play as "[NSF]Ramses". When we first organized a small LAN at our house, our parents were able to see that, unlike my grandma still thinks, we weren't sitting in front of our computers, without talking, without laughing, without looking at each other, witout hearing each other. I believed that they were quite impresse how much shouting, laughing and talking happend and how communicative it was. Sure, we sweared when we "died", we shouted at each other, but this isn't something unnormal and it was obvious that we had great fun.
Something similiar happend when my dad came in my room and I was playing Natural-Selection online. He asked who was talking, and I told him that there's one player from Texas, one from London, two from Los Angeles, one from Paris and another one from Poland. Everyone talking in english, everyone understanding each other, discussing about how we can take out the Ventilation Hive in bast.
I've gotten e-mails from france, turkey, usa, uk, spain, italy and perhaps two or three more countries, all thanks to gaming.
---
Enough writing, it's 00:46 here in Germany, good night!
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
edited August 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--Ramses+Aug 20 2003, 10:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ramses @ Aug 20 2003, 10:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Enough writing, it's 00:46 here in Germany, good night! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> sir.. you are my new best friend.
from what i've read, you are a very fortunate individual to have such kind, open-minded, understanding, and logical parents.
but regardless of whether you've got parents that see the "doom box" or parents that see the "anti-social shoot-em-up violence breeding box"...
computers <i>are</i> addictive. forums and social e-mailing are considered addictions today, as well as computer and video gaming. thinking realistically, they qualify easily as addictions, and addictions are generally a bad thing, no?
i'm happy <i>and</i> proud to be a computer addict. but too much computer, to the point that your brain and even your body become sloth with inactivity, as Immacolata said, is a very harmful thing. i spend a damn lot of time gaming, but i run every day, do a good amount of exercise, hang out with friends, see people... i just like doing things. i'm not dictating to you how to live your life. if you hate the "jock" mentality of getting all buffed out and being a social animal, don't think of it that way. but keeping in shape is good for you. maybe you don't give a crap about what you look like... but hey, neither do i. i actually work out mostly for the endorphins.
you need to do things. there doesn't <i>have</i> to be a reason to need to do things... but until the matrix exists, and you can live a healthy life hooked up to tubes that will do all the nourishing for you, and you will have absolutely no need to perform in the physical world...
My parents don't care what games I play, hell, when I was 13 I was watching rated R movies. Actually my step-dad knows how it is to play games, he plays SoF and SoF II as well as a lot of games. Imo, if someone goes out and kills "because of games" then something was EXTREAMLY wrong in their youth. Also most parents/elderly people don't understand that internet games are about commicating with others.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Deronok+Aug 21 2003, 04:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deronok @ Aug 21 2003, 04:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My parents don't care what games I play, hell, when I was 13 I was watching rated R movies. Actually my step-dad knows how it is to play games, he plays SoF and SoF II as well as a lot of games. Imo, if someone goes out and kills "because of games" then something was EXTREAMLY wrong in their youth. Also most parents/elderly people don't understand that internet games are about commicating with others. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that can't be entirely true... otherwise, how would i prefer the ones where you communicate with others.... in order to kill more people? i <i>do</i> prefer those. think Raven Shield.
This problem is nothing new. Thousands of years ago, I can imagine parents of Roman children berating them for "war-playing". Although it helped trained them for the years ahead, parents naturally detest violence from their children. Though we do not face the same 'preparation' situation, the embedding of violence upon the youth and the discouragements of elders will be an everlasting problem. But does it truly harm us, warp our minds, and create disturbers of the peace? I say it does not. With the current population playing such video games, if the former was true, crime rates would be much higher. It is because we are put into a constraint, knowing that life "on the screen" is different from life "real". The exception are those who are already troubled (see Columbine). Games did not make killers, it was their entire lives. Some parents, nevertheless, refuse to budge (either moral or religious reasons). The only way is to show them and be responsible.
On a lighter note, I tend to resist playing outdoors here in LA because of the questionable air quality. Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony have done excellent jobs keeping us indoors.
My first and foremost reason for being on the computer is that in 2 minutes, during any time of the day I can talk and meet with people from across the world. I talk to people all across the US, in Britain, France, Germany, Canada, South America and Australia every day. It's the lack of interaction with people that causes me to be on the computer, I try to do things with friends, but unlike other eras, there is hardly neighborhoods anymore, friends are spread out over miles and different schedules and transportation and viability is the reason why people don't do things.
I don't care for being on the computer by myself, thats boring, but talking to people all around the world is the only reason I'm on, and sometimes, playing with all those people I've met is just good fun.
Sure I'd like to do stuff with the guys, and go meet some of the girls, but how often does that get to happen, maybe, a couple times a week if that, for a few hours, and sometimes one day.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Sirus+Aug 21 2003, 07:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Aug 21 2003, 07:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My first and foremost reason for being on the computer is that in 2 minutes, during any time of the day I can talk and meet with people from across the world. I talk to people all across the US, in Britain, France, Germany, Canada, South America and Australia every day. It's the lack of interaction with people that causes me to be on the computer, I try to do things with friends, but unlike other eras, there is hardly neighborhoods anymore, friends are spread out over miles and different schedules and transportation and viability is the reason why people don't do things.
I don't care for being on the computer by myself, thats boring, but talking to people all around the world is the only reason I'm on, and sometimes, playing with all those people I've met is just good fun.
Sure I'd like to do stuff with the guys, and go meet some of the girls, but how often does that get to happen, maybe, a couple times a week if that, for a few hours, and sometimes one day. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it's like that for most of us. maybe we should link parents to this thread.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
I think, playing computer games isn't healthy at all, parents have reasons to worry. While the impact of the computer games depends of the person, it is seriously unsocializing. You say using the computer to get in contact with people around the world is the reason you use it, but country borders fade away and we become anonymous and loses any form for resposibility. Violent games is harmful, we're losing the respect for life and people become addicted to the "rush" and can lose any relation to the real world, "screw this, I just wanna go home and get my daily satisfaction with my pwnzor virtual ego" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I also think some of us are looking for excuses in this thread.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you spent 10-12 hours per day in front of the computer you are retarding yourself in your lack of different kinds of stimulation. I see no problems in video games. But I see problems in people (of all ages) obsessing with them to the point where they forget about everything else. Colombine shooters were already ostracized by their surrounding community and school mates werent they? Alienation creates monsters, video games dont.
So I understand your parent's fear. I'd not allow my kid to spend too much time on a computer simply because it is important that they get to do other things. A varied mental diet is as important as the nutritional diet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree fully with the exception of <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->video games dont.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In my opinion video games (In an excessive amount of time) forces the person <b>not</b> to deal with the problems you may have, and you have found an easy way of running away from things (which causes more troubles, and we all know where that ends ( eg. Colombine)
Anyway, I feel like computer games are harmful, for some. I have myself been addicted to diablo where everyday I'd chatting with people, playing games with them. I'd lose my sense of time, I'd lose my sleep, I'd lose real friends and I'd be depresive when I wasnt playing it. I dont know how it could go that bad, maybe it was the fact that it wasnt very going very well and it seemed like easy fun (soon to be addicted). Maybe I'm trying to say that any exageration of any kind is bad.
I will admit this right before I start: I am addicted to computers, the Internet, and video games. Utterly addicted. All my free time is spent on the computer. However, I know what's real, and I know what's not.
My mom LOVES that I play video games. Why? Because I enjoy them. She KNOWS that I know where to draw the line between Real Life and the Virtual World. SHE even plays video games. (Though she's more of a fan of Mario and stuff. She doesn't like modern shooters because she was never that good at button-mashing. However, she used to play Wolfenstein 3D, DOOM, and Quake right along with me.) She KNOWS the advantages to video games and the Internet.
<b><u>Advantages of the Internet</u>:</b> 1) Any kind of information you could ever want is at your fingertips. Being on the Internet encourages self-learning. I've learned more from websites on the Internet than I ever have from school.
2) You meet tons of people. I have friends all around the world. She LOVES that. She loves that I can interact with people in other cultures, and learn from them. I have a friend in Japan. Whenever she has a question about Japan, she has me ask my friend. He works at SquareEnix. Whenever I have a question about Square games, I can ask him. We share a common love for video games.
3) Entertainment. I don't enjoy sports. I don't enjoy playing, nor watching sports. I don't like school activities. The computer is MORE than I need to entertain myself. <i>I'm never bored</i>. There is ALWAYS something to do. (There's an old saying.... "If you get bored, you're a boring person. There is always a way to entertain yourself.")
<b><u>Advantages to Video Games</u>:</b> 1) Skill improvement. My eyesight is sharp as a hawk's. My mom was watching me play Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven a while ago, and I was crawling along on my stomach, then I suddenly gasped and rolled behind a box. She asked me why I did that, and I moved the camera and pointed to a TINY blotch in the corner of the screen. A guard. She was ABSOLUTELY AMAZED. She didn't see it. She didn't even notice it. <i>I did</i>. My hearing is top-notch, as well. Because of games like Natural Selection and others, I can tell WHERE sound comes from PERFECTLY. Most people can only tell "In front of me. Behind me. To my left. To my right." I can tell... "Forward and to my right, walking to my front." My reaction time is excellent, as well. I was cutting some chicken one day, as I was helping prepare dinner that day. I slipped, and the knife fell. This was a HUGE, POINTY knife. Half a second before the knife would have impacted and pierced my foot, I moved it out of the way and <i>snatched the knife, by the handle, out of the air</i>. If this doesn't prove that video games enhance skills, I don't know what does.
2) Entertainment. See the Entertainment part in the previous section.
3) Escape from reality. Sometimes, I don't want to me. Maybe I want to save the world? I can play tons of games that let me save the world. Maybe I want to be a ninja? I can play Tenchu. I want to be a Navy Seal? I can play SOCOM. I wanna be "god"? I can play The Sims. It's all there for me, when I want it.
My mom knows the benefits of video games and the Internet, alright. She's seen what they've done for me. You'll never meet a more open-minded mother. My grandmother, on the other hand... Her argument: "Why would you want to talk to people you're never going to meet?" I just chuckle at her, pat her on the shoulder and say "If you'd try it, you'd see why."
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
But, if you can learn such thing, is it so hard to believe you can learn violence and anger?, it doesnt give you a choice what to learn and shields you off your surroundings <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1) Any kind of information you could ever want is at your fingertips. Being on the Internet encourages self-learning. I've learned more from websites on the Internet than I ever have from school.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not to be an a-hole, but this is about games and such <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Entertainment. I don't enjoy sports. I don't enjoy playing, nor watching sports. I don't like school activities. The computer is MORE than I need to entertain myself. I'm never bored. There is ALWAYS something to do. (There's an old saying.... "If you get bored, you're a boring person. There is always a way to entertain yourself.")<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is a dangerously matter, there has to be some sort of contrast to even out. Always having <i>fun</i> cant be good, I know that from myself <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited August 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Aug 21 2003, 06:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Aug 21 2003, 06:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think, playing computer games isn't healthy at all, parents have reasons to worry. While the impact of the computer games depends of the person, it is seriously unsocializing. You say using the computer to get in contact with people around the world is the reason you use it, but country borders fade away and we become anonymous and loses any form for resposibility. Violent games is harmful, we're losing the respect for life and people become addicted to the "rush" and can lose any relation to the real world, "screw this, I just wanna go home and get my daily satisfaction with my pwnzor virtual ego" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I also think some of us are looking for excuses in this thread.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I don't know about you, but video games haven't made me any more violent than I already was. I've always been a violent kid- just because I had to defend myself when I was really young, EVERY DAY. Every day, when I was in K-4th grade, a different set of 6th graders would try and beat me up. Finally, in the final parts of 4th, I started defending myself. Now, If anyone even TOUCHES me in hostility, I usually break their arm. Its just a reflex. I'm also not afraid of giving someone the death penalty. ANY day I'd be proud to PERSONALLY end the life of Cary Stayner, O.J. Simpson, and many other ****.
I've always been this way personally. I have friends that have done the same and were never violent- still aren't.
<!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Aug 21 2003, 04:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Aug 21 2003, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But, if you can learn such thing, is it so hard to believe you can learn violence and anger?, it doesnt give you a choice what to learn and shields you off your surroundings <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In my opinion, there's a big difference between the physical ability of enhanced perception Forrester mentioned and social behaviour: The one is a simple product of use and training, the other is not. We as humans are a little beyond the 'monkey see - monkey do' - learning; it's possible for us to make concious decisions in favor or against a certain behavioural pattern. Yes, there's exceptions, such as addictions or psychotic actions, but I've yet to see evidence (or even the earnest claim) of games leading to such severe psychological maladies.
My mom doesn't care that I play videogames, I'm ashamed to admit it, but she can kick my butt in Dr. Mario <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> . She encourages me to go outside and shoot some hoops with friends, but my friends live so far away, and my streets full of old people and INCREDIBLY young kids (10 to 5). With my brother off at college I've become more anti-social because it's just me, no one else besides my younger sister. Videogames help pass the time, and DO teach you things. People skills, other cultures, HISTORY!, science, and various other things.
I met friends through videogames too, my two best friends were in my gym class in 7th grade (going into 10th now, and still great friends.) We'd talk about videogames while playing sports, in the locker room, and stuff like that. THen one of my friends introduced me to CS, which I played a lot with him, and I discovered DoD at that point, and showed him. He got hooked, we played that a lot. We also play Serious Sam among other things (99 kill limit team deathmatch in UT2k3 with instagib <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
We're also starting to do lan parties and stuff, starting small, 3 comps, and possibly heading off to a QuakeCon or something in the future. My point with this is that through all the computer time we've logged, we're still non-violent, we just know a lot about guns.
Hell, if someone called me and invited me to a party right now, I'd log off the comp and go. I'm addicted, but not that addicted.
<!--QuoteBegin--PanzerOx+Aug 21 2003, 12:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PanzerOx @ Aug 21 2003, 12:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hell, if someone called me and invited me to a party right now, I'd log off the comp and go. I'm addicted, but not that addicted. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's the important thing, I think. If you can't go to a party because you're too busy camping a monster (and having no fun while doing it) in Evercrack, I'd say that's a dangerous addiction. If you just play games when you've got nothing more fun or productive to do, well, that's not fundamentally different from reading pulp novels or watching movies, and in fact is potentially far more social.
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Aug 21 2003, 01:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 21 2003, 01:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Aug 21 2003, 04:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Aug 21 2003, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But, if you can learn such thing, is it so hard to believe you can learn violence and anger?, it doesnt give you a choice what to learn and shields you off your surroundings <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In my opinion, there's a big difference between the physical ability of enhanced perception Forrester mentioned and social behaviour: The one is a simple product of use and training, the other is not. We as humans are a little beyond the 'monkey see - monkey do' - learning; it's possible for us to make concious decisions in favor or against a certain behavioural pattern. Yes, there's exceptions, such as addictions or psychotic actions, but I've yet to see evidence (or even the earnest claim) of games leading to such severe psychological maladies. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, there was that one guy in South Korea who died after playing Starcraft for 70-odd hours straight at a gaming cafe...although that might have been the product of something else.
<!--QuoteBegin--[p4]Samwise+Aug 21 2003, 04:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([p4]Samwise @ Aug 21 2003, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--PanzerOx+Aug 21 2003, 12:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PanzerOx @ Aug 21 2003, 12:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hell, if someone called me and invited me to a party right now, I'd log off the comp and go. I'm addicted, but not that addicted. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's the important thing, I think. If you can't go to a party because you're too busy camping a monster (and having no fun while doing it) in Evercrack, I'd say that's a dangerous addiction. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed, that's one of the reasons I stay away from MMORPGs, that and the cost, I don't belive in spending $240 a year to play some game online.
I think my friends are more addicted than I am with the computer, one of them "forgot" to call me and ask me if I wanted to go to a movie with them BECAUSE he was on a kill streak in CS. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, there was that one guy in South Korea who died after playing Starcraft for 70-odd hours straight at a gaming cafe...although that might have been the product of something else.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I used to love playing football when I was younger, but when I got older I realised I didn't like the sort of people who played football (sorry for the generalisation <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
That's why I like the internet, since I can choose who I socialise with <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I still try to be active though, I walk just about everywhere that is within a reasonable distance and I do sports like cycling or golf which can be done solitary or with a friend <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--PanzerOx+Aug 21 2003, 05:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PanzerOx @ Aug 21 2003, 05:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, there was that one guy in South Korea who died after playing Starcraft for 70-odd hours straight at a gaming cafe...although that might have been the product of something else.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That proves it, Starcraft is crack to Koreans. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> StarCraft is a sport in Korea. And that guy died because he hadn't eaten or drank anything in 72 hours, then he went to the bathroom. They found him dead, in the bathroom.
<!--QuoteBegin--CForrester+Aug 21 2003, 09:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CForrester @ Aug 21 2003, 09:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My reaction time is excellent, as well. I was cutting some chicken one day, as I was helping prepare dinner that day. I slipped, and the knife fell. This was a HUGE, POINTY knife. Half a second before the knife would have impacted and pierced my foot, I moved it out of the way and <i>snatched the knife, by the handle, out of the air</i>. If this doesn't prove that video games enhance skills, I don't know what does.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> That is freaking cool...
Despite most of the arguments in this thread, I'd say gaming has had a negative effect on me, but only because I've had an addiction from a young age. I'm now overweight and kind of anti-social (at least in real life) and lazy. I haven't become a mindless killing machine, I'm actually a very passive person, and I've become very bright. I'm just sluggish in most things, I've been sitting in front of a TV screen the better half of my life. I spent all of my time playing video games, and the only friends I had lived far away. Things are different now, I'm not quite as anti-social but I'm still sluggish. The first half of last semester I was getting almost all D's because I was playing Counter-Strike all the time and not doing homework. I came out of the semester with a near 3.0. Video games have been addicting, but not harmful. (Am I contradicting myself now?) Um...wait, the only thing harmful has been the addiction itself. Everything else has been an improvement.
If it was a game involving the slaying of communists your parents who were oh.... 15-25 during the fifties, would be A-OK with it too. Go U.S propoganda!
<!--QuoteBegin--Deronok+Aug 21 2003, 10:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deronok @ Aug 21 2003, 10:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In Korea, games are basicly sports, you get paid to play them and the better you play the more money you get. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Off I go to hang myself
Computer Games do <b>NOT</b> enhance your reactions. Your reaction time is always the same no matter who you are. (This was proved by Jeremy Clarkson on the BBC program speed. The argument was that Formular 1 drivers must have extreamly fast reflexes to travel at those speed and react within seconds. However it was found that Micheal Schumacher had the same reflex speed as Jeremy Clarkson through the scientic use of the game slapsies.) What makes Schumacher seem to have these fast reactions is his hightened ability to sense hazards in the road ahead. That is what games do, they make your body highten your perception of the world around you rather than improving your reaction speed.
-EDIT- And the real danger with games is not people going out and killing people but its more a large amount of people becoming desensitived to violence, at least I think it is..... -EDIT-
<!--QuoteBegin--Venmoch+Aug 22 2003, 07:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Venmoch @ Aug 22 2003, 07:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Computer Games do <b>NOT</b> enhance your reactions. Your reaction time is always the same no matter who you are. (This was proved by Jeremy Clarkson on the BBC program speed. The argument was that Formular 1 drivers must have extreamly fast reflexes to travel at those speed and react within seconds. However it was found that Micheal Schumacher had the same reflex speed as Jeremy Clarkson through the scientic use of the game slapsies.) What makes Schumacher seem to have these fast reactions is his hightened ability to sense hazards in the road ahead. That is what games do, they make your body highten your perception of the world around you rather than improving your reaction speed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah. Thanks for the insight, I guess they just improved my perception. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I'm still amazed, myself, at the knife thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--CForrester+Aug 22 2003, 06:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CForrester @ Aug 22 2003, 06:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm still amazed, myself, at the knife thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So am I
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Aug 21 2003, 01:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 21 2003, 01:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Aug 21 2003, 04:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Aug 21 2003, 04:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But, if you can learn such thing, is it so hard to believe you can learn violence and anger?, it doesnt give you a choice what to learn and shields you off your surroundings <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In my opinion, there's a big difference between the physical ability of enhanced perception Forrester mentioned and social behaviour: The one is a simple product of use and training, the other is not. We as humans are a little beyond the 'monkey see - monkey do' - learning; it's possible for us to make concious decisions in favor or against a certain behavioural pattern. Yes, there's exceptions, such as addictions or psychotic actions, but I've yet to see evidence (or even the earnest claim) of games leading to such severe psychological maladies. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But anger and violence is not what you're born with, it's something you're raised to get, there can be different factors for this, and I believe computer games <b>might</b>/<b>can</b> be one of them. We as humans might not be so high above monkey see - monkey do, we can be manipulated/affected by so many things it's not even funny, computers included.
It's a strange thing when it comes to parents and video games. Whenever the parent groups get up in arms about a game, it's generally Grand Theft Auto or CS or going back further, Duke Nukem 3D and Doom. But it's weird, Terminator 3 and Matrix Reloaded come out in movie theaters and parent groups don't bat an eyelid. Why is that?
Because movies have ratings. Parents know this, that little Jonney isn't going to walk down the street and pay $10 to see Neo slice 4 guys to hamburger, or Arnie blast a graveyard apart. Weird thing is, they don't seem to know that games also have ratings. M15+ here in Australia for CS, MA for GTA: Vice City, and game shops will not sell you the game if you're underaged. Simple. Yet parents seem almost oblivious to this simple fact. It may very well be that a large part of the hostility towards games is caused by ignorance.
Our government deems that it is fine for a 15 year old to see T-3 and play CS. So whats the problem? The regulatory groups set up to rate movies and games consider a 15 year old capable of understanding that a movie is fiction, and that a counter-terrorist in CS is just a bunch of pixels. Anyone who goes on a killing spree after watching that is screwed up anyway: sooner or later they were gonna crack without help. If a game helps bring out such tendancies before the person becomes older and gains access to weapons such as guns, all the better, that person can be helped and the problems he/she has resolved.
On the topic though, I think games provide a great relief to stress. So many times I've felt swamped in uni work or life in general, I just fire up NS for a bit and emerge a few maps later calm, relaxed and happy. Humans will have voilent urges and times of anger and stress; venting them in a completly non-aggressive way strikes me as down-right sensible.
People meet other people through games as well. I've met so many people through games, the forums that come with them, LANs and gaming events, and my experiances with these people have been mostly good. My life has been enriched by my relationships with these people, and I shudder to think of life without them. I have learned so much from discussions with people on forums across the net and connected with people of differant faiths, cultures and countries.
Games are fine, as long as you follow the ratings and use them, like any form of entertainment, in moderation.
<!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Aug 22 2003, 01:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Aug 22 2003, 01:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But anger and violence is not what you're born with, it's something you're raised to get, there can be different factors for this, and I believe computer games <b>might</b>/<b>can</b> be one of them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry to say so, but from a scientific point of view, we <i>are</i> born with violent potentials and desires that will inevitably have to be lived out in a way. Keep in mind that each of us sitting in front of their screens is genetically barely different from the hunter-gatherers that roamed the African steppes a few thousand years ago. The notion that violent behaviour is strictly the product of a faulty upbringing can't be held up in front of worldwide studies that showed how certain demographic groups (say, for example, young males) showed relatively equal levels of aggresiviness, although differently expressed, no matter from which cultural background they might come.
We <i>are</i> born violent, the question is how we learn to cope with this - and here I agree that computer games can have an influence, although, as I tried to show in my initial post, a rather small one.
The cruical difference is that games don't <i>make</i> you violent; a stable person that learned how to control his or her violent impulses can play games without of adopting more aggressive behaviours, while an unsteady person might be influenced into believing aggressiviness to be an acceptable kind of behaviour. The games can however not be blamed for their audience; they can't be blamed for the bad socialisation of parts of it, and good violence prevention can't start with the games, it can, if anything, end there: If a person is unsteady enough to take the interactions of a few pixels on a screen as incentive to become violent, it's too late, anyway.
Althought Nemesis it could also be argued that our genetic ancesters were also forced into violence by their enviroment and will to survive. But I agree.
The reason video games aren't prosecuted by our generation is because we grew up playing them. It doesn't at all suprise me that accusations that games are evil come from a generation 44 years and older, they didn't grow up with Doom and Duke Nukem and Blake Stone.
Comments
I'll go a bit off-topic and talk also about "being on the computer" in general, if it's too off topic, just tell me...
I've always tried to convince them that
<b>a)</b>
I (and probably most other kids) don't use the computer only for gaming. In fact, nowadays I spent more time writing, doing artwork, "coding" HTML or just listening to music or watching TV (I've a TV card).
Since my parents (and many other "elder" people" often see the computer only as something they have to use at work, they didn't accepted that for me and most members of my generation (born 1986), the computer is much more than just a "doom box".
When we first became internet access, I had even better arguments and today I can clearly say that my written English (2. language for me) greatly improved thanks for the internet. Without it, I would likely not be able to write such a "complex" text so that you can understand it.
Another preconception that the internet and especially things like E-Mail, IRC and Forums helped to adjust was that being on a computer means being anti-social.
When it came to discussions about "playing outside", well, I used to do that often when I was younger. But I also spent VERY MUCH time indoors and it's just a fact that I've always been more a stay-at-home than an excessive party-goer. The fact that, due to a handicap, I'm not a great sportsmen and often ill helped to convince my parents that the computer (paired with internet-access) is a great chance for people like me too keep contact without too much trouble, even if they're not fit enough to leave the house for some time.
Something that's also a good argument is the fact that there're many many much worse activities than spending your time on a computer. For example TV. Before we got a computer, I spent much more time on the TV, a medium that's far more "anti-social" and "uncreative/unimaginative".
Although I also had arguments about "watching too much TV", this is still a valid point, since TV is in common much more accepted than computer games.
<b>b)</b>
Computer games aren't just "shoot'n kill" and "anti-social".
While it's certainly clear that most computer games (that are no sport-simulations) are about killing, it's important to make clear that most (sadly not all) kids know the difference between the real world and the virtual quite well and can often distinguish both more intuitive than their parents. This "intuitivity" leads to the misconcept? that kids can't difference between reality and games.
We (my generation) are so much used to virtual worlds, that we mostly doesn't even need to thing about the fact that it's unreal. We feel it.
This often disturbs parents, because for them, everything in computer games looks so "real", but we just see polygons, models and every now and then a bug or glitch. When we see how in SoF 2 a limb is dismembered, we thing "cool effect", our parents thing "Oh my god, he lost his arm!"
While this certainly means that we're already more or less desensitized, it also shows that we're far more aware that it's not real.
Slowly, my parents also beginn to learn that computer games aren't just "shoot'n kill", aim and trigger, but require much more.
Imagine a game of NS as an alien.
You need to navigate in REALLY complex environments and all dimensions (left, right, forward, backward, up, down) and use more or less complex commands to navigate (jump, fly, climb, crawl, run, walk).
You need to be aware of your environment, of obstacles and of tactical/strategical advantages/disadvantages and you've to react to them in a different manner, depending on your current role (skulk, gorge, lerk, fade, onos).
You've to keep track of the position of plenty of other things, buildings, friends and enemies to name a few (in other games, there are items, weapons etc) and you've to work with these information, again different in different roles.
Not enough that you've to keep track of these things, even they can be quite complex. It's important how much health your friend has, how fast your enemy is running, how long you'll need to reach the resource node, how the enemy commander could use this structure and what your team may expect from you to do.
Now for the "Anti-Social Gamers" argument.
Me and my secon older brother are very close friends, and we usually play toegeher on the same computer, we don't even change names while playing, we both always play as "[NSF]Ramses".
When we first organized a small LAN at our house, our parents were able to see that, unlike my grandma still thinks, we weren't sitting in front of our computers, without talking, without laughing, without looking at each other, witout hearing each other.
I believed that they were quite impresse how much shouting, laughing and talking happend and how communicative it was.
Sure, we sweared when we "died", we shouted at each other, but this isn't something unnormal and it was obvious that we had great fun.
Something similiar happend when my dad came in my room and I was playing Natural-Selection online. He asked who was talking, and I told him that there's one player from Texas, one from London, two from Los Angeles, one from Paris and another one from Poland. Everyone talking in english, everyone understanding each other, discussing about how we can take out the Ventilation Hive in bast.
I've gotten e-mails from france, turkey, usa, uk, spain, italy and perhaps two or three more countries, all thanks to gaming.
---
Enough writing, it's 00:46 here in Germany, good night!
sir.. you are my new best friend.
from what i've read, you are a very fortunate individual to have such kind, open-minded, understanding, and logical parents.
but regardless of whether you've got parents that see the "doom box" or parents that see the "anti-social shoot-em-up violence breeding box"...
computers <i>are</i> addictive. forums and social e-mailing are considered addictions today, as well as computer and video gaming. thinking realistically, they qualify easily as addictions, and addictions are generally a bad thing, no?
i'm happy <i>and</i> proud to be a computer addict. but too much computer, to the point that your brain and even your body become sloth with inactivity, as Immacolata said, is a very harmful thing. i spend a damn lot of time gaming, but i run every day, do a good amount of exercise, hang out with friends, see people... i just like doing things. i'm not dictating to you how to live your life. if you hate the "jock" mentality of getting all buffed out and being a social animal, don't think of it that way. but keeping in shape is good for you. maybe you don't give a crap about what you look like... but hey, neither do i. i actually work out mostly for the endorphins.
you need to do things. there doesn't <i>have</i> to be a reason to need to do things... but until the matrix exists, and you can live a healthy life hooked up to tubes that will do all the nourishing for you, and you will have absolutely no need to perform in the physical world...
we need to do stuff.
edit: i HATE typing "thinknig"...
that can't be entirely true... otherwise, how would i prefer the ones where you communicate with others.... in order to kill more people? i <i>do</i> prefer those. think Raven Shield.
Though we do not face the same 'preparation' situation, the embedding of violence upon the youth and the discouragements of elders will be an everlasting problem. But does it truly harm us, warp our minds, and create disturbers of the peace? I say it does not. With the current population playing such video games, if the former was true, crime rates would be much higher. It is because we are put into a constraint, knowing that life "on the screen" is different from life "real".
The exception are those who are already troubled (see Columbine). Games did not make killers, it was their entire lives.
Some parents, nevertheless, refuse to budge (either moral or religious reasons). The only way is to show them and be responsible.
On a lighter note, I tend to resist playing outdoors here in LA because of the questionable air quality. Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony have done excellent jobs keeping us indoors.
I don't care for being on the computer by myself, thats boring, but talking to people all around the world is the only reason I'm on, and sometimes, playing with all those people I've met is just good fun.
Sure I'd like to do stuff with the guys, and go meet some of the girls, but how often does that get to happen, maybe, a couple times a week if that, for a few hours, and sometimes one day.
I don't care for being on the computer by myself, thats boring, but talking to people all around the world is the only reason I'm on, and sometimes, playing with all those people I've met is just good fun.
Sure I'd like to do stuff with the guys, and go meet some of the girls, but how often does that get to happen, maybe, a couple times a week if that, for a few hours, and sometimes one day. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's like that for most of us. maybe we should link parents to this thread.
While the impact of the computer games depends of the person, it is seriously unsocializing.
You say using the computer to get in contact with people around the world is the reason you use it, but country borders fade away and we become anonymous and loses any form for resposibility.
Violent games is harmful, we're losing the respect for life and people become addicted to the "rush" and can lose any relation to the real world, "screw this, I just wanna go home and get my daily satisfaction with my pwnzor virtual ego" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I also think some of us are looking for excuses in this thread.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you spent 10-12 hours per day in front of the computer you are retarding yourself in your lack of different kinds of stimulation. I see no problems in video games. But I see problems in people (of all ages) obsessing with them to the point where they forget about everything else. Colombine shooters were already ostracized by their surrounding community and school mates werent they? Alienation creates monsters, video games dont.
So I understand your parent's fear. I'd not allow my kid to spend too much time on a computer simply because it is important that they get to do other things. A varied mental diet is as important as the nutritional diet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree fully with the exception of <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->video games dont.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my opinion video games (In an excessive amount of time) forces the person <b>not</b> to deal with the problems you may have, and you have found an easy way of running away from things (which causes more troubles, and we all know where that ends ( eg. Colombine)
Anyway, I feel like computer games are harmful, for some. I have myself been addicted to diablo where everyday I'd chatting with people, playing games with them. I'd lose my sense of time, I'd lose my sleep, I'd lose real friends and I'd be depresive when I wasnt playing it. I dont know how it could go that bad, maybe it was the fact that it wasnt very going very well and it seemed like easy fun (soon to be addicted).
Maybe I'm trying to say that any exageration of any kind is bad.
My mom LOVES that I play video games. Why? Because I enjoy them. She KNOWS that I know where to draw the line between Real Life and the Virtual World. SHE even plays video games. (Though she's more of a fan of Mario and stuff. She doesn't like modern shooters because she was never that good at button-mashing. However, she used to play Wolfenstein 3D, DOOM, and Quake right along with me.) She KNOWS the advantages to video games and the Internet.
<b><u>Advantages of the Internet</u>:</b>
1) Any kind of information you could ever want is at your fingertips. Being on the Internet encourages self-learning. I've learned more from websites on the Internet than I ever have from school.
2) You meet tons of people. I have friends all around the world. She LOVES that. She loves that I can interact with people in other cultures, and learn from them. I have a friend in Japan. Whenever she has a question about Japan, she has me ask my friend. He works at SquareEnix. Whenever I have a question about Square games, I can ask him. We share a common love for video games.
3) Entertainment. I don't enjoy sports. I don't enjoy playing, nor watching sports. I don't like school activities. The computer is MORE than I need to entertain myself. <i>I'm never bored</i>. There is ALWAYS something to do. (There's an old saying.... "If you get bored, you're a boring person. There is always a way to entertain yourself.")
<b><u>Advantages to Video Games</u>:</b>
1) Skill improvement. My eyesight is sharp as a hawk's. My mom was watching me play Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven a while ago, and I was crawling along on my stomach, then I suddenly gasped and rolled behind a box. She asked me why I did that, and I moved the camera and pointed to a TINY blotch in the corner of the screen. A guard. She was ABSOLUTELY AMAZED. She didn't see it. She didn't even notice it. <i>I did</i>. My hearing is top-notch, as well. Because of games like Natural Selection and others, I can tell WHERE sound comes from PERFECTLY. Most people can only tell "In front of me. Behind me. To my left. To my right." I can tell... "Forward and to my right, walking to my front." My reaction time is excellent, as well. I was cutting some chicken one day, as I was helping prepare dinner that day. I slipped, and the knife fell. This was a HUGE, POINTY knife. Half a second before the knife would have impacted and pierced my foot, I moved it out of the way and <i>snatched the knife, by the handle, out of the air</i>. If this doesn't prove that video games enhance skills, I don't know what does.
2) Entertainment. See the Entertainment part in the previous section.
3) Escape from reality. Sometimes, I don't want to me. Maybe I want to save the world? I can play tons of games that let me save the world. Maybe I want to be a ninja? I can play Tenchu. I want to be a Navy Seal? I can play SOCOM. I wanna be "god"? I can play The Sims. It's all there for me, when I want it.
My mom knows the benefits of video games and the Internet, alright. She's seen what they've done for me. You'll never meet a more open-minded mother. My grandmother, on the other hand... Her argument: "Why would you want to talk to people you're never going to meet?" I just chuckle at her, pat her on the shoulder and say "If you'd try it, you'd see why."
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1) Any kind of information you could ever want is at your fingertips. Being on the Internet encourages self-learning. I've learned more from websites on the Internet than I ever have from school.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to be an a-hole, but this is about games and such <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Entertainment. I don't enjoy sports. I don't enjoy playing, nor watching sports. I don't like school activities. The computer is MORE than I need to entertain myself. I'm never bored. There is ALWAYS something to do. (There's an old saying.... "If you get bored, you're a boring person. There is always a way to entertain yourself.")<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a dangerously matter, there has to be some sort of contrast to even out. Always having <i>fun</i> cant be good, I know that from myself <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
While the impact of the computer games depends of the person, it is seriously unsocializing.
You say using the computer to get in contact with people around the world is the reason you use it, but country borders fade away and we become anonymous and loses any form for resposibility.
Violent games is harmful, we're losing the respect for life and people become addicted to the "rush" and can lose any relation to the real world, "screw this, I just wanna go home and get my daily satisfaction with my pwnzor virtual ego" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I also think some of us are looking for excuses in this thread.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I don't know about you, but video games haven't made me any more violent than I already was. I've always been a violent kid- just because I had to defend myself when I was really young, EVERY DAY. Every day, when I was in K-4th grade, a different set of 6th graders would try and beat me up. Finally, in the final parts of 4th, I started defending myself. Now, If anyone even TOUCHES me in hostility, I usually break their arm. Its just a reflex. I'm also not afraid of giving someone the death penalty. ANY day I'd be proud to PERSONALLY end the life of Cary Stayner, O.J. Simpson, and many other ****.
I've always been this way personally. I have friends that have done the same and were never violent- still aren't.
<span style='color:white'> Check <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=28&t=43638' target='_blank'>rule 5</a>.</span>
In my opinion, there's a big difference between the physical ability of enhanced perception Forrester mentioned and social behaviour: The one is a simple product of use and training, the other is not.
We as humans are a little beyond the 'monkey see - monkey do' - learning; it's possible for us to make concious decisions in favor or against a certain behavioural pattern. Yes, there's exceptions, such as addictions or psychotic actions, but I've yet to see evidence (or even the earnest claim) of games leading to such severe psychological maladies.
I met friends through videogames too, my two best friends were in my gym class in 7th grade (going into 10th now, and still great friends.) We'd talk about videogames while playing sports, in the locker room, and stuff like that. THen one of my friends introduced me to CS, which I played a lot with him, and I discovered DoD at that point, and showed him. He got hooked, we played that a lot. We also play Serious Sam among other things (99 kill limit team deathmatch in UT2k3 with instagib <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
We're also starting to do lan parties and stuff, starting small, 3 comps, and possibly heading off to a QuakeCon or something in the future. My point with this is that through all the computer time we've logged, we're still non-violent, we just know a lot about guns.
Hell, if someone called me and invited me to a party right now, I'd log off the comp and go. I'm addicted, but not that addicted.
That's the important thing, I think. If you can't go to a party because you're too busy camping a monster (and having no fun while doing it) in Evercrack, I'd say that's a dangerous addiction. If you just play games when you've got nothing more fun or productive to do, well, that's not fundamentally different from reading pulp novels or watching movies, and in fact is potentially far more social.
In my opinion, there's a big difference between the physical ability of enhanced perception Forrester mentioned and social behaviour: The one is a simple product of use and training, the other is not.
We as humans are a little beyond the 'monkey see - monkey do' - learning; it's possible for us to make concious decisions in favor or against a certain behavioural pattern. Yes, there's exceptions, such as addictions or psychotic actions, but I've yet to see evidence (or even the earnest claim) of games leading to such severe psychological maladies. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, there was that one guy in South Korea who died after playing Starcraft for 70-odd hours straight at a gaming cafe...although that might have been the product of something else.
That's the important thing, I think. If you can't go to a party because you're too busy camping a monster (and having no fun while doing it) in Evercrack, I'd say that's a dangerous addiction. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed, that's one of the reasons I stay away from MMORPGs, that and the cost, I don't belive in spending $240 a year to play some game online.
I think my friends are more addicted than I am with the computer, one of them "forgot" to call me and ask me if I wanted to go to a movie with them BECAUSE he was on a kill streak in CS. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well, there was that one guy in South Korea who died after playing Starcraft for 70-odd hours straight at a gaming cafe...although that might have been the product of something else.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That proves it, Starcraft is crack to Koreans.
That's why I like the internet, since I can choose who I socialise with <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I still try to be active though, I walk just about everywhere that is within a reasonable distance and I do sports like cycling or golf which can be done solitary or with a friend <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
That proves it, Starcraft is crack to Koreans. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
StarCraft is a sport in Korea. And that guy died because he hadn't eaten or drank anything in 72 hours, then he went to the bathroom. They found him dead, in the bathroom.
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> That is freaking cool...
Despite most of the arguments in this thread, I'd say gaming has had a negative effect on me, but only because I've had an addiction from a young age. I'm now overweight and kind of anti-social (at least in real life) and lazy. I haven't become a mindless killing machine, I'm actually a very passive person, and I've become very bright. I'm just sluggish in most things, I've been sitting in front of a TV screen the better half of my life. I spent all of my time playing video games, and the only friends I had lived far away. Things are different now, I'm not quite as anti-social but I'm still sluggish. The first half of last semester I was getting almost all D's because I was playing Counter-Strike all the time and not doing homework. I came out of the semester with a near 3.0. Video games have been addicting, but not harmful. (Am I contradicting myself now?) Um...wait, the only thing harmful has been the addiction itself. Everything else has been an improvement.
Off I go to hang myself
Computer Games do <b>NOT</b> enhance your reactions. Your reaction time is always the same no matter who you are. (This was proved by Jeremy Clarkson on the BBC program speed. The argument was that Formular 1 drivers must have extreamly fast reflexes to travel at those speed and react within seconds. However it was found that Micheal Schumacher had the same reflex speed as Jeremy Clarkson through the scientic use of the game slapsies.) What makes Schumacher seem to have these fast reactions is his hightened ability to sense hazards in the road ahead. That is what games do, they make your body highten your perception of the world around you rather than improving your reaction speed.
-EDIT- And the real danger with games is not people going out and killing people but its more a large amount of people becoming desensitived to violence, at least I think it is..... -EDIT-
Ah. Thanks for the insight, I guess they just improved my perception. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I'm still amazed, myself, at the knife thing.
So am I
In my opinion, there's a big difference between the physical ability of enhanced perception Forrester mentioned and social behaviour: The one is a simple product of use and training, the other is not.
We as humans are a little beyond the 'monkey see - monkey do' - learning; it's possible for us to make concious decisions in favor or against a certain behavioural pattern. Yes, there's exceptions, such as addictions or psychotic actions, but I've yet to see evidence (or even the earnest claim) of games leading to such severe psychological maladies. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But anger and violence is not what you're born with, it's something you're raised to get, there can be different factors for this, and I believe computer games <b>might</b>/<b>can</b> be one of them.
We as humans might not be so high above monkey see - monkey do, we can be manipulated/affected by so many things it's not even funny, computers included.
Because movies have ratings. Parents know this, that little Jonney isn't going to walk down the street and pay $10 to see Neo slice 4 guys to hamburger, or Arnie blast a graveyard apart. Weird thing is, they don't seem to know that games also have ratings. M15+ here in Australia for CS, MA for GTA: Vice City, and game shops will not sell you the game if you're underaged. Simple. Yet parents seem almost oblivious to this simple fact. It may very well be that a large part of the hostility towards games is caused by ignorance.
Our government deems that it is fine for a 15 year old to see T-3 and play CS. So whats the problem? The regulatory groups set up to rate movies and games consider a 15 year old capable of understanding that a movie is fiction, and that a counter-terrorist in CS is just a bunch of pixels. Anyone who goes on a killing spree after watching that is screwed up anyway: sooner or later they were gonna crack without help. If a game helps bring out such tendancies before the person becomes older and gains access to weapons such as guns, all the better, that person can be helped and the problems he/she has resolved.
On the topic though, I think games provide a great relief to stress. So many times I've felt swamped in uni work or life in general, I just fire up NS for a bit and emerge a few maps later calm, relaxed and happy. Humans will have voilent urges and times of anger and stress; venting them in a completly non-aggressive way strikes me as down-right sensible.
People meet other people through games as well. I've met so many people through games, the forums that come with them, LANs and gaming events, and my experiances with these people have been mostly good. My life has been enriched by my relationships with these people, and I shudder to think of life without them. I have learned so much from discussions with people on forums across the net and connected with people of differant faiths, cultures and countries.
Games are fine, as long as you follow the ratings and use them, like any form of entertainment, in moderation.
Sorry to say so, but from a scientific point of view, we <i>are</i> born with violent potentials and desires that will inevitably have to be lived out in a way. Keep in mind that each of us sitting in front of their screens is genetically barely different from the hunter-gatherers that roamed the African steppes a few thousand years ago. The notion that violent behaviour is strictly the product of a faulty upbringing can't be held up in front of worldwide studies that showed how certain demographic groups (say, for example, young males) showed relatively equal levels of aggresiviness, although differently expressed, no matter from which cultural background they might come.
We <i>are</i> born violent, the question is how we learn to cope with this - and here I agree that computer games can have an influence, although, as I tried to show in my initial post, a rather small one.
The cruical difference is that games don't <i>make</i> you violent; a stable person that learned how to control his or her violent impulses can play games without of adopting more aggressive behaviours, while an unsteady person might be influenced into believing aggressiviness to be an acceptable kind of behaviour. The games can however not be blamed for their audience; they can't be blamed for the bad socialisation of parts of it, and good violence prevention can't start with the games, it can, if anything, end there: If a person is unsteady enough to take the interactions of a few pixels on a screen as incentive to become violent, it's too late, anyway.