<!--QuoteBegin--kingmob+Aug 21 2003, 08:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kingmob @ Aug 21 2003, 08:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> in both versions there were wins on both sides...they were not 50%-50%...they never will be
the solution play both sides as an alien you will learn your limitations and how to exploit them when playing marines as a marine you will learn your limitations and how to exploit them when playing aliens
just play the game <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think this is the most sound advice I have seen on this forum.
<!--QuoteBegin--King Ubu+Aug 21 2003, 03:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (King Ubu @ Aug 21 2003, 03:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So we win, and it's pretty easy partially because at 4 minutes and 46 seconds the res count is 6 vs 2 and all the really "good" players leave, since they know their team sucks, since marines are out res'ing the aliens, and everyone knows that aliens get a lot more rts in 2.0, and if the marines have more then the alien team must suck. It's just so OBVIOUS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think the point here is that the aliens you are fighting are not playing together as a team. I played a server this morning redphive something or other. Great server. However, my alien counterparts spent more time complaining about the fact that we started with Movement as opposed to sensory or defense. I knew we were in trouble from the start. I calmly suggested that we go for a res grab, then skulk back and protect the res you built in the event of a marine attack, or group up and chompa chompa some rine. They went for it doing the res grab and we were doing quite well. But then I noticed I was the only one talking. Nobody was typing in team chat, no one was communicating with the other team members. A skulk has a much better chance at taking a rine down if he is working with another skulk. You get this back and forth where the rine doesn't know which way to look to protect himself or go for the frag. The skulks on the otherhand approach ever closer, closing the gap on his ability to riddle your body with bullets. If one rine is moving towards a res point it almost always happens that another will be close behind. Or when the original marine dies he will respawn and run as fast as possible to claim what was rightfully his before the mad skulk swarm. By keeping your alien team in the general location of the rines forward progression you collect mad res on multiple kills. Eventually the rines will give up and look elsewhere. This is when you bring in your Gorge, fortify the position, and regroup your Skulks for another slaughter. By this point you have tons of res nodes, you have tons of res from kills and more than likely are polishing off the rines with onos, lerk, fade, etc... With just that small amount of communication by the aliens you have a win almost all the time. This is where the imbalanace lies. A skulk with fewer HP and AP would be the solution. And rapid res grabbing wouldn't be the case all the time if a Gorge knew he was going to have to spend 40 or 50 res for the next hive. By keeping the rine res low you are preventing HA for a good amount of time, long enough for at least a second hive and allowing the game to progress naturally and balanced for both sides. It had to be difficult and hard work for the NS Team to develope this game but the endless posting about team balancing from a group of players with a range of skill unknown has to be a nightmare for Flayra. Try to take the changes in stride and keep playing who knows what the results will be until you really have a competitive match. BTW: Flayra short games are not a requirement, I think most people like the build up aspect of NS quite a bit.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyone that says the aliens are weak, or that the game is totally balanced, obviously hasn't done any of the things I mentioned above. Aliens are soundly beating marines in 9 out of 10 competitive games, and this is due to a couple last minute changes we made at the end of our private beta. The game that had finally gotten balanced near the end, was no longer as fun as it should've been, so we took the risk and traded balance for fun. That's what 2.0 is. It's fun, but not balanced yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When you watch a clan game and watch skulks just owning marines all game every game, there is definitely something wrong. Posting "OMG Flayz0r is listening to the winers give it a couple weeks" is not only totally useless feedback, it's irritating. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, for a second I thought I saw someone post that ns 2.0 is <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=31&t=41193' target='_blank'>BALANCED??</a>
Well, this is a perfect case of what most of us call "natural selection", except dealing with strategies and players.
Players who cannot adapt and continue to lose without having fun will drop the game. Strategies that fail to win games will become extinct. The strategies and players that DO evolve are sure to succeed and evolve further.
Isn't that cool? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--King Ubu+Aug 21 2003, 03:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (King Ubu @ Aug 21 2003, 03:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Marines are losing because they play with strategies developed in 1.04
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh, no. Its the imbalances, the same ones Flayra has told us about, and the same ones being fixed in 2.1a...
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Aug 21 2003, 03:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Aug 21 2003, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Uh, no. Its the imbalances, the same ones Flayra has told us about, and the same ones being fixed in 2.1a... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But surley it takes about 2 months to determine if a game is balanced, right Communist? After all we are all such IDIOTS that it takes us a minimum of 1/6th of a year to figure out how to play a game effectivly. Clearly we have at least 1+ month left to be playing 2.0 before we finally "figure" out that it is indeed unbalanced.
Even after 2 months we will still have these same people saying "Marines just haven't figured out how to play yet, just give it some more time, it really is balanced."
Comments
the solution
play both sides
as an alien you will learn your limitations and how to exploit them when playing marines
as a marine you will learn your limitations and how to exploit them when playing aliens
just play the game <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is the most sound advice I have seen on this forum.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the point here is that the aliens you are fighting are not playing together as a team. I played a server this morning redphive something or other. Great server. However, my alien counterparts spent more time complaining about the fact that we started with Movement as opposed to sensory or defense. I knew we were in trouble from the start. I calmly suggested that we go for a res grab, then skulk back and protect the res you built in the event of a marine attack, or group up and chompa chompa some rine. They went for it doing the res grab and we were doing quite well. But then I noticed I was the only one talking. Nobody was typing in team chat, no one was communicating with the other team members. A skulk has a much better chance at taking a rine down if he is working with another skulk. You get this back and forth where the rine doesn't know which way to look to protect himself or go for the frag. The skulks on the otherhand approach ever closer, closing the gap on his ability to riddle your body with bullets. If one rine is moving towards a res point it almost always happens that another will be close behind. Or when the original marine dies he will respawn and run as fast as possible to claim what was rightfully his before the mad skulk swarm. By keeping your alien team in the general location of the rines forward progression you collect mad res on multiple kills. Eventually the rines will give up and look elsewhere. This is when you bring in your Gorge, fortify the position, and regroup your Skulks for another slaughter. By this point you have tons of res nodes, you have tons of res from kills and more than likely are polishing off the rines with onos, lerk, fade, etc... With just that small amount of communication by the aliens you have a win almost all the time. This is where the imbalanace lies. A skulk with fewer HP and AP would be the solution. And rapid res grabbing wouldn't be the case all the time if a Gorge knew he was going to have to spend 40 or 50 res for the next hive. By keeping the rine res low you are preventing HA for a good amount of time, long enough for at least a second hive and allowing the game to progress naturally and balanced for both sides. It had to be difficult and hard work for the NS Team to develope this game but the endless posting about team balancing from a group of players with a range of skill unknown has to be a nightmare for Flayra. Try to take the changes in stride and keep playing who knows what the results will be until you really have a competitive match. BTW: Flayra short games are not a requirement, I think most people like the build up aspect of NS quite a bit.
and
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When you watch a clan game and watch skulks just owning marines all game every game, there is definitely something wrong. Posting "OMG Flayz0r is listening to the winers give it a couple weeks" is not only totally useless feedback, it's irritating. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, for a second I thought I saw someone post that ns 2.0 is <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=31&t=41193' target='_blank'>BALANCED??</a>
Players who cannot adapt and continue to lose without having fun will drop the game. Strategies that fail to win games will become extinct. The strategies and players that DO evolve are sure to succeed and evolve further.
Isn't that cool? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, no. Its the imbalances, the same ones Flayra has told us about, and the same ones being fixed in 2.1a...
But surley it takes about 2 months to determine if a game is balanced, right Communist? After all we are all such IDIOTS that it takes us a minimum of 1/6th of a year to figure out how to play a game effectivly. Clearly we have at least 1+ month left to be playing 2.0 before we finally "figure" out that it is indeed unbalanced.
Even after 2 months we will still have these same people saying "Marines just haven't figured out how to play yet, just give it some more time, it really is balanced."