yes imo, the JP is now really crap compared to how it was...
i know it used to be fps dependent and unless you have played 1.04 with 100fps you'll probably think its great now! its not.
please fix it <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
maybe this will also help balance, instead of contunually nerfing aliens just UNnerf JP <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Jaml+Aug 27 2003, 03:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jaml @ Aug 27 2003, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--CaL_FiN+Aug 27 2003, 04:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CaL_FiN @ Aug 27 2003, 04:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Jaml+Aug 27 2003, 03:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jaml @ Aug 27 2003, 03:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Listen. In 1.04 we had nearly all of the above listed counters plus acid rocket at hive 2. JPs were still way overpowered. They flew in and dropped a hive in about 30 secs. They didn´t even gave you the time to react. And often there were lerks and gorges to defend. But the jper still prevailed because of the 1.04 flight model. health spraying? I will see that against a jp/hmg guy in 1.04. Youre sooo dead if he has near decent aim. Anything below a fade dies in seconds and fades now have no acid rocket anymore. So bringing the old flight model back would bring marine jp whoring back. And without reasonable counters and the new shotgun they can just crush all your hives with closed eyes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you not read any of the points? Yes, some were there in 1.04... I.e. OCs, Spikes, Umbra, Spores... But they have been improved greatly in 2.0!! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well lets take a look. Umbra was nerfed. Spikes got nerfed. Acid moved to hive 3 and got nerfed. The only thing that improved are OC. But its the same because in 1.04 you had more oc with less accuracy and now you have less OC with more accuracy. Jut get it in your heads that gorges do not have the res anymore to build wols of 8 oc and 4 dc like in 1.04. The new res model just doesn´t allows for such high expenses anymore.
If you are that smart when it comes to killing jp´s then where have you been when in 1.04 the jp´s owned the aliens over and over again. Oh i forgot. You were playing marines and now cry cause they lost their favorite toy the jetpack of invincibility with a +3 lameness bonus against alien lifeforms. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Erm... I have seen many walls of lame in 2.0. You don't need to build 8 OCs anymore, 2/3 is sufficient. They might even kill some people so you get some res for kills.
With a 2nd hive coming so fast and a JP research time which means you can't end it before two hives, aliens have the advantage and can expect a JP rush they can build up for. The problem with 1.04 is that jetpacks came too early for aliens to have enough defence up. I.e. No second hive, no bigger lifeforms, no OCs. Guess what? They are fixed in 2.0. With a sensible JP tech time there will be no 1.04 repeat.
Spikes are better than ever! 9 shots and they are dead?! 1/2 Lerks could easily stop a JP rush... Spores + Umbra + Spikes will just kill anything. Lerks are far too under-used.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you are that smart when it comes to killing jp´s then where have you been when in 1.04 the jp´s owned the aliens over and over again.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just stupid, and I mean stupid. In 1.04 I think, just think, that aliens were locked to hives. Guess what? This means no Onos or no Fades at 1 hive? Now, if your reasoning is based on assuming I played marines a lot in 1.04, you are very wrong. This is not proving your point, it's not factual and serves no purpose. I played aliens a lot more than marines in 1.04 for the record.
Now. As Flayra has said that if aliens are winning 9/10 games in clan play I have this point. If marines aren't using jetpacks in clan game, something which used to be a valid tactic, isn't something wrong?
The Jp was overpowered. It made no difference if you had 1 or 2 hives fades or not onos or scorpians that hovar without flapping a jp rush ended all your hopes in an instant. It was like hive is under att- hive is dyin- hive dead. Everyone complained about the ability of the Jps to hover midair wasting the hives and anything around without having to fear much. And then the devs fixed the problem in 2.0 and they did a great job. The former JP simply won´t come back. Too many games were ruined because of it and the majority of the players are happy its gone. I dont miss it for sure.
It wont come back get over it.
And aliens dont win 9 out of 10 games because of the JP but because of slow marine teching and that will be fixed in the next patch.
As for the lerk. Give me a 1.04 Jp an a hmg/shottie and you can take a 2.0 lerk and spikes. You will go down before i do. Hmgs/shotties dish out damage much faster you know. And without aimbot i bet at least 2 out of 3 spikes will miss me while i zip around your hive pumping lead into it. Enough time to unload 2 clips and own the hive.
Jaml, 1.04 JP rushes worked on public games perhaps, but in clan games where the play becomes a lot more serious, Jp rushes were defeated 8/10 times - now combined with the fact that aliens can get a 2nd hive before jetpacks - aliens can now always have umbra when jetpacks arrive! A decent alien team in 2.0 would have a good chance at beating a jetpack rush even if they had 1.04 jetpacks.
As for public play, who knows... try sticking to the servers with a good crowd of players and you'd get some very good games.
JPs á 1.04: - Very cheap and easy to obtain, didnt require much more than holding one or two RTs for 5 mins to get a good HMG/JP rush going - Very hard to kill; for two reasons, one because aliens were still skulk with more or less 0 OCs 5 mins in the game, and since you never needed to land - Provided a more useful quickness due to the fact that thay were not pulled down by HWs.
Alien counters in 1.04: - Lerk spikes, by far the most common, and still is the most viable sollution, however, lacking adren and costing 33 res, lerks came in late and usually got killed very early. - Skulks kill a marine in 2-3 bites usually, problem is that the marines fly better than skulks, and avoids being hit, also recieves medspam which allows spawncamping after the first waw is killed. - OCs...were usefull if 8 were lamed togheter with 8 DCs next to the hive, stopping marines from landing and hitting maybe one shot of 50.(which by the way is far to much res)
------------------
Jetpack á 2.+ - Takes longer to obtain - Costs more than before - Has less fuel - Is far less manouverable
Alien counters 2.+ - Onos gore reach to the celing in most rooms and hallways, making them very good roadblocks - Lerks have spikes and spores at hive 1, costing less as well - Fades swipe has a long range as well, making a tougher skulk - OCs target MUCh better, and can now be used to actually kill people. - Gorges have a much improved acidspit wich can be used to finish up
I tried flying the new JPs once, and I cosider myself to be a rather good 1.04 pilot. I couldnt hovar trough one room good enough, even less use it in action. Even a team of 6 Marines with JPs and SG couldnt do much better than a team of 6 SG/LA marines...
My conclusion: Make JPs as manouverable as in 1.04 but keep the current fuel lvl, that makes our dear "hovarmarines" stay dead. Keep the cost but remove the silly uppgrade restrictions and lower the price extensively. If not, the JP would be a whole lot of Res thrown out to make marines able to jump into vents. A marine would be able to fly around and scout , but not have enough energy to kill a hive.
<!--QuoteBegin--Jaml+Aug 27 2003, 04:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jaml @ Aug 27 2003, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> @cat_fin and the rest of you:
The Jp was overpowered. It made no difference if you had 1 or 2 hives fades or not onos or scorpians that hovar without flapping a jp rush ended all your hopes in an instant. It was like hive is under att- hive is dyin- hive dead. Everyone complained about the ability of the Jps to hover midair wasting the hives and anything around without having to fear much. And then the devs fixed the problem in 2.0 and they did a great job. The former JP simply won´t come back. Too many games were ruined because of it and the majority of the players are happy its gone. I dont miss it for sure.
It wont come back get over it.
And aliens dont win 9 out of 10 games because of the JP but because of slow marine teching and that will be fixed in the next patch.
As for the lerk. Give me a 1.04 Jp an a hmg/shottie and you can take a 2.0 lerk and spikes. You will go down before i do. Hmgs/shotties dish out damage much faster you know. And without aimbot i bet at least 2 out of 3 spikes will miss me while i zip around your hive pumping lead into it. Enough time to unload 2 clips and own the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Go and re-read my posts... I have gave a counter to each one of your points and you are still saying the same thing.
I'd have to agree. I dont want to see endless jp rushes, nor do I want to see endless ha trains, make jp's and/or the research of them cheaper may be the answer.
I still don't understand why so many think reintroducing the old JP will only yield nonstop JP rushes. PEOPLE, SNAP OUT OF IT! THIS ISN'T 1.04, IT'S 2.0! Meaning, the JP comes pretty late into the game and it's also pretty expensive. Aliens will also most certainly have a ton of readily available counters. I'm all for a few compromises, though. Namely, making it so the fuel only regenerates while on the ground to force a jetpacker to actually have to land at some point. That's only fair. I want the old maneuvrability and hovering back, though.
Jaml, if you had 2 hives with fades and lerks and you still died to a JP rush (which can hardly be called a rush at that time in the game), your team sucked. I'm sorry but it's the truth. You had webs, you had acid rockets, 5/6 umbra, adrenaline, movement chambers, etc. If you left your hive room wide open and let the marines fly right into it and didn't react to the hive under attack warning in time by using a movement chamber, it's your own damn fault. And about the blind spots on the OC thing... do you see marines complaining how if they leave a single blind spot on a TF, an entire turret farm can be killed by a single skulk? I don't. Currently the aliens have nothing to fear from sneak attacks. Even a LA marine attack will rarely work anymore. There's always the HA welder train, but those can be spotted from a mile away. Aliens can leave their hive rooms wide open and just concentrate on important chokepoints and get away with it. It shouldn't be that way.
Also, to whoever said in 1.04 you only loved JP as a marine and hated them as alien. That's just not true. One of my favorite things to do was to do duel a JPer as a lerk in our hive room and dive-bite him when he landed for ammo/health.
Comments
i know it used to be fps dependent and unless you have played 1.04 with 100fps you'll probably think its great now! its not.
please fix it <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
maybe this will also help balance, instead of contunually nerfing aliens just UNnerf JP <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Have you not read any of the points? Yes, some were there in 1.04... I.e. OCs, Spikes, Umbra, Spores... But they have been improved greatly in 2.0!! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well lets take a look. Umbra was nerfed. Spikes got nerfed. Acid moved to hive 3 and got nerfed. The only thing that improved are OC. But its the same because in 1.04 you had more oc with less accuracy and now you have less OC with more accuracy. Jut get it in your heads that gorges do not have the res anymore to build wols of 8 oc and 4 dc like in 1.04. The new res model just doesn´t allows for such high expenses anymore.
If you are that smart when it comes to killing jp´s then where have you been when in 1.04 the jp´s owned the aliens over and over again. Oh i forgot. You were playing marines and now cry cause they lost their favorite toy the jetpack of invincibility with a +3 lameness bonus against alien lifeforms. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Erm... I have seen many walls of lame in 2.0. You don't need to build 8 OCs anymore, 2/3 is sufficient. They might even kill some people so you get some res for kills.
With a 2nd hive coming so fast and a JP research time which means you can't end it before two hives, aliens have the advantage and can expect a JP rush they can build up for. The problem with 1.04 is that jetpacks came too early for aliens to have enough defence up. I.e. No second hive, no bigger lifeforms, no OCs. Guess what? They are fixed in 2.0. With a sensible JP tech time there will be no 1.04 repeat.
Spikes are better than ever! 9 shots and they are dead?! 1/2 Lerks could easily stop a JP rush... Spores + Umbra + Spikes will just kill anything. Lerks are far too under-used.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you are that smart when it comes to killing jp´s then where have you been when in 1.04 the jp´s owned the aliens over and over again.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just stupid, and I mean stupid. In 1.04 I think, just think, that aliens were locked to hives. Guess what? This means no Onos or no Fades at 1 hive? Now, if your reasoning is based on assuming I played marines a lot in 1.04, you are very wrong. This is not proving your point, it's not factual and serves no purpose. I played aliens a lot more than marines in 1.04 for the record.
Now. As Flayra has said that if aliens are winning 9/10 games in clan play I have this point. If marines aren't using jetpacks in clan game, something which used to be a valid tactic, isn't something wrong?
The Jp was overpowered. It made no difference if you had 1 or 2 hives fades or not onos or scorpians that hovar without flapping a jp rush ended all your hopes in an instant. It was like hive is under att- hive is dyin- hive dead. Everyone complained about the ability of the Jps to hover midair wasting the hives and anything around without having to fear much. And then the devs fixed the problem in 2.0 and they did a great job. The former JP simply won´t come back. Too many games were ruined because of it and the majority of the players are happy its gone. I dont miss it for sure.
It wont come back get over it.
And aliens dont win 9 out of 10 games because of the JP but because of slow marine teching and that will be fixed in the next patch.
As for the lerk. Give me a 1.04 Jp an a hmg/shottie and you can take a 2.0 lerk and spikes. You will go down before i do. Hmgs/shotties dish out damage much faster you know. And without aimbot i bet at least 2 out of 3 spikes will miss me while i zip around your hive pumping lead into it. Enough time to unload 2 clips and own the hive.
As for public play, who knows... try sticking to the servers with a good crowd of players and you'd get some very good games.
JPs á 1.04:
- Very cheap and easy to obtain, didnt require much more than holding one or two RTs for 5 mins to get a good HMG/JP rush going
- Very hard to kill; for two reasons, one because aliens were still skulk with more or less 0 OCs 5 mins in the game, and since you never needed to land
- Provided a more useful quickness due to the fact that thay were not pulled down by HWs.
Alien counters in 1.04:
- Lerk spikes, by far the most common, and still is the most viable sollution, however, lacking adren and costing 33 res, lerks came in late and usually got killed very early.
- Skulks kill a marine in 2-3 bites usually, problem is that the marines fly better than skulks, and avoids being hit, also recieves medspam which allows spawncamping after the first waw is killed.
- OCs...were usefull if 8 were lamed togheter with 8 DCs next to the hive, stopping marines from landing and hitting maybe one shot of 50.(which by the way is far to much res)
------------------
Jetpack á 2.+
- Takes longer to obtain
- Costs more than before
- Has less fuel
- Is far less manouverable
Alien counters 2.+
- Onos gore reach to the celing in most rooms and hallways, making them very good roadblocks
- Lerks have spikes and spores at hive 1, costing less as well
- Fades swipe has a long range as well, making a tougher skulk
- OCs target MUCh better, and can now be used to actually kill people.
- Gorges have a much improved acidspit wich can be used to finish up
I tried flying the new JPs once, and I cosider myself to be a rather good 1.04 pilot. I couldnt hovar trough one room good enough, even less use it in action.
Even a team of 6 Marines with JPs and SG couldnt do much better than a team of 6 SG/LA marines...
My conclusion:
Make JPs as manouverable as in 1.04 but keep the current fuel lvl, that makes our dear "hovarmarines" stay dead. Keep the cost but remove the silly uppgrade restrictions and lower the price extensively.
If not, the JP would be a whole lot of Res thrown out to make marines able to jump into vents. A marine would be able to fly around and scout , but not have enough energy to kill a hive.
The Jp was overpowered. It made no difference if you had 1 or 2 hives fades or not onos or scorpians that hovar without flapping a jp rush ended all your hopes in an instant. It was like hive is under att- hive is dyin- hive dead. Everyone complained about the ability of the Jps to hover midair wasting the hives and anything around without having to fear much. And then the devs fixed the problem in 2.0 and they did a great job. The former JP simply won´t come back. Too many games were ruined because of it and the majority of the players are happy its gone. I dont miss it for sure.
It wont come back get over it.
And aliens dont win 9 out of 10 games because of the JP but because of slow marine teching and that will be fixed in the next patch.
As for the lerk. Give me a 1.04 Jp an a hmg/shottie and you can take a 2.0 lerk and spikes. You will go down before i do. Hmgs/shotties dish out damage much faster you know. And without aimbot i bet at least 2 out of 3 spikes will miss me while i zip around your hive pumping lead into it. Enough time to unload 2 clips and own the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go and re-read my posts... I have gave a counter to each one of your points and you are still saying the same thing.
Majin has a good Idea! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Jaml, if you had 2 hives with fades and lerks and you still died to a JP rush (which can hardly be called a rush at that time in the game), your team sucked. I'm sorry but it's the truth. You had webs, you had acid rockets, 5/6 umbra, adrenaline, movement chambers, etc. If you left your hive room wide open and let the marines fly right into it and didn't react to the hive under attack warning in time by using a movement chamber, it's your own damn fault. And about the blind spots on the OC thing... do you see marines complaining how if they leave a single blind spot on a TF, an entire turret farm can be killed by a single skulk? I don't. Currently the aliens have nothing to fear from sneak attacks. Even a LA marine attack will rarely work anymore. There's always the HA welder train, but those can be spotted from a mile away. Aliens can leave their hive rooms wide open and just concentrate on important chokepoints and get away with it. It shouldn't be that way.
Also, to whoever said in 1.04 you only loved JP as a marine and hated them as alien. That's just not true. One of my favorite things to do was to do duel a JPer as a lerk in our hive room and dive-bite him when he landed for ammo/health.