Legalizing All Drugs
Thansal
The New Scum Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Members, Constellation
The New Scum Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">or possibly only specific ones?</div> ok, here is my deal, I am for total legalization of all drugs <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I meen, there would be laws regulating ofcourse so here are my Basics:
1) most drugs must be administered by a licenced individual,who is stone cold sober. (things like weed, booz, caffine, and nicotine probably would not)
2) Most drugs would thus be only available in specific locations (where the user can be observed)
so with these 2 we cut out alot of problems like:
1) No more ODs plain and simple (and if some one does there will be paramedics sorta aitting there)
2) no interaction with the public, saffer for all then
3) psychological screenings for use of Acid and other psychotropics <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Now we cover the benefits of having the gov monitering and controlling drugs:
1) nice and pure, no more additives <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> (hmm, rat poison, chalk, talk, etc etc etc)
2) TAXES!!!!!!!!! no need to fight the drug lords any more <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> now we just tax em. Again growing/making any drug realy aint that expensive, it is the danger that jacks the cost <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I meen, there would be laws regulating ofcourse so here are my Basics:
1) most drugs must be administered by a licenced individual,who is stone cold sober. (things like weed, booz, caffine, and nicotine probably would not)
2) Most drugs would thus be only available in specific locations (where the user can be observed)
so with these 2 we cut out alot of problems like:
1) No more ODs plain and simple (and if some one does there will be paramedics sorta aitting there)
2) no interaction with the public, saffer for all then
3) psychological screenings for use of Acid and other psychotropics <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Now we cover the benefits of having the gov monitering and controlling drugs:
1) nice and pure, no more additives <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> (hmm, rat poison, chalk, talk, etc etc etc)
2) TAXES!!!!!!!!! no need to fight the drug lords any more <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> now we just tax em. Again growing/making any drug realy aint that expensive, it is the danger that jacks the cost <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
every drug is different! and collectivly legalising EVERY drug would be a bad move in my opinion.
The National Health Service will become totally screwed with present/future effects of the drugs.
here borow mine:
/
and you see, I already tried to get around that problem <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
thus the enforcing of specific areas for use. This is both for the ussers and every one elses protection <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (i meen we don't want some one on PCP wandering around, or some one triping)
ok, lets go through some:
1) weed, ok we covered that before
2) Coke/crack can't really kill you flat out (so long as you are healthy enugh, ok health tests are now also required <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
3) heroine, same deal as coke/crack
4) Acid, thus my psychological screenings.
5) E, well there is a problem, not enugh known about it and the point is basicaly drop some and then go to a Rave (or something) then we gota deal with dehidration (another problem)
Again, my Idea is not perfect nor is it thought out to the fullest. I believe that with some good minds working on it (specialy those who know alot about each drug) some god laws could be made
Cal, don't screw one then <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
From an experienced individual, me, no legalizing drugs wouldnt be ok.
Some drugs are really bad. Addictive and very dangerous.
Me having been clean of any drug (besides alcohol) for an enitire 4 years <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
notice a huge differance. But
i would if anything legalizing weed, and illegalizing cigerettes would be more logical. but still weed messes your head alot. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> but at least it doesnt kill you. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Having complete legalization would be good, though - I think we should just take it one drug at a time.
and as samwise said. A trickle in effect would be a good idea, alowing the gov to get ussed to it (thanks for the addition <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Like cigarettes? Or alcohol? Or, say, the more controlled substances such as morphine (and all the other opiates)?
The lethal dosage of Marijuana is 1,500 pounds of marijuana (20,000 to 40,000 joints) within about 15 minutes. Good luck trying that.
As a side note, I commented in the abortions thread that legislating morality is a mistake, the same holds true here. It didn't work with prohabition, it's not working with the war on drugs. All it is doing is causeing crime, putting harmless people in jail, and making drug dealers richer.
I wouldn't class alcohol as dangerous as something like E or Heroine (of course there are exceptions.) It's hard to determine what a group of people on E/Heroin would do compared to a group of drunken people. If all drugs were legalized I'd imagine they would all be combined with alcohol somehow to increase the buzz, making it more dangerous.
I've never taken any illegal substance, nor have I ever seen anybody under the effects. This kinda makes it hard to make judgements about the drugs other than what I have learned.
I wouldn't class alcohol as dangerous as something like E or Heroine (of course there are exceptions.) It's hard to determine what a group of people on E would do compared to a group of drunken people. If all drugs were legalized I'd imagine they would all be combined with alcohol somehow.
I've never taken any illegal substance, now have I ever seen anybody under the effects. This kinda makes it hard to make judgements about the drugs other than what I have learned. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's never to late to illegalize a drug. NONE of the drugs that are currently illegal were always illegal. Pot was illegalized in the early 20th century - before that, it was a legitimate crop. I've got a burlap sack that I use for laundry which was originally used to ship Rebel brand marijuana - "nothing like a mint julep and a joint" is the slogan. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> LSD was illegalized sometime in the 60s. Ecstasy was illegalized really recently - 80s? Before that it was used medically. The only difference between those and cigarettes is that there's already a lot of money flowing from tobacco into the government (through various means, not all of them entirely legitimate).
A bunch of people on Ecstasy? They'd probably dance around, play music, and give each other backrubs. OH NOES! F4!!!
If you've never taken any illegal/controlled substances, bear in mind that most of what you hear about them is probably "War on Drugs" propaganda. Marijuana, for example, is classified by the government as a highly dangerous and addictive substance, even though all research to date has shown that it is far less addictive than, say, cigarettes - and I'm sure we all remember the tobacco company hearings with people insisting that there was no evidence showing that nicotine is addictive, even though it was pretty well accepted for DECADES prior. Of course, SOME drugs are REALLY dangerous (coke, heroin, meth), but these are inexplicably the ones that get less airtime. Go figure.
5) E, well there is a problem, not enugh known about it and the point is basicaly drop some and then go to a Rave (or something) then we gota deal with dehidration (another problem)
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually it was used in Germany as a therapeutic drug since 1972 or so. It is very useful in a controlled setting for treating people with multiple personality disorders. As well as a few other mental illnesses. It was never meant to be used as a party drug, and I truly feel sad for all of the people this drug could have helped if it did not get abused. (MDMA has been around since before WW1) Since it became popular in the early 80's it was put on the list of controlled substances in 1985. Most Emergency Room visits relating to MDMA are actually caused by the things drug dealers add to the pills to make more money.
To connect that to this topic, the US government has spent 25.6 billion dollars on the war on drugs as of 8/26/03 I forgot but I think its in the range of 30-40 billion a year. Most of that money is pocketed by the bureaucrats that propitiate the "war on drugs" only a fraction is spent on actually fighting the so called "war"
So until you can show these bureaucrats how they can make 30-40 billion per year with legalization, it will never happen.
This is the primary reason so many false facts are distributed about the use and effect of drugs, the DARE program in California is a prime example, because the graduates of the Drug Abuse Resistance Education were 80% more likely to do drugs then the people who never took the classes (primary reason being: them finding out the facts they learned were inflated or untrue all together).
darnit, stop replying and let me go play NS <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I can't keep up and when I get back there'll be another 10+ posts to read <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Hehe.
I'm against it. First, we don't fully know the consequences of drugs. Blanket legalization is irresponsible at best, dangerous at worst. Also, consider what drugs do: they alter conciousness.
Second, what good does more drug use serve?
-"People just need to get away from their problems for a while" until they sober up- then they see that there problems are still bad and need to escape again, wash, rinse, repeat. You're now addicted. It only prevents the problem from being dealt with.
-Recreational use is just as bad. If people do it for fun, they'll still get addicted to and they'll want to have fun more often.
Finally, history shows us the evil of drugs use. Remeber China? It used to be a world leader, till the Brits started shipping Opium over there and making a tidy profit. Indian tribe were decimated as a result of alcohol. Rome was an affluent society, but became an opulent one during its fall.
One final thing: Our society is sue happy. Don't think for a second that 'legal' producers would avoid wrongful death suits. Our courts would be swamped, the buisness would drowned, and only black markets would flourish despite the 'legal' availibility of them.
EDIT
MJ is less harmful than alcholol. Alcohol is legal, so shouldn't MJ be? NO. Just a graver ill is legal doesn't give reason to make another ill legal.
Brilliant point there <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Finally someone agrees <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Are you lobbying for the reinstatement of prohibition then? Because if not, I can't take this comment seriously. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Brilliant point there <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Finally someone agrees <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However detrimental the effects are, who are you to tell someone else what they do with their body? As long as it does not effect someone elses intrinsic rights it really doesn't matter. If Joe Schmoe wants to shoot up or smoke some pot thats his choice. The key is <b>as long as it doesn't effect someone else</b>. Don't even try to tell me that Alchohol should be illegal just because it has bad properties, its already been said that marijuana wasn't illegalized because of its supposed bad effects but for entirely political reasons.
You don't want to take part in doing drugs or drinking, thats fine, thats your choice (and mine as well), but do not say someone else can't do something because of your moralistic opinions. Its their choice and theirs alone.
History also shows us what happens when you criminalize drugs. Bootleg alcohol is what fueled the rise of organized crime in America, and illegal drugs are still the driving force behind most organized crime. Legalize the drugs, and you cut off funding to the crimelords, as well as reducing the amount of government spending needed to chase down and imprison people for drug-related offenses, and pumping more tax money into the government.
History also shows us what happens when you criminalize drugs. Bootleg alcohol is what fueled the rise of organized crime in America, and illegal drugs are still the driving force behind most organized crime. Legalize the drugs, and you cut off funding to the crimelords, as well as reducing the amount of government spending needed to chase down and imprison people for drug-related offenses, and pumping more tax money into the government. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to mention making those previously illegal drugs MUCH safer to consume, in that they are regulated by the government and are not laced with many of the chemicals and such drugs can be at the moment. Which make them far worse then they really are.
Second, crimes associated with drugs would go down, as would government costs of persecution and the War on Drugs. But consider the effectI mentioned as well: lawsuits. Do you think people won't try and sue these new drug companies for things? "My son got high and died because..." "Lung damage from pot..." "Herion caused a...". The money saved would just be put into even more stress on the legal system. Crime wouldn't go down either. Since new companies would need higher prices to pay legal bills, as well as high government taxes to pay to have the suits heard, the cost of legal drugs would go up. People would look for cheaper alternatives. Do you doubt they'd use the old system of dealing?
The results: MORE people on HARMFUL substances and NO drop in crime or COST.
Doesn't seem like a good deal.
Second, crimes associated with drugs would go down, as would government costs of persecution and the War on Drugs. But consider the effectI mentioned as well: lawsuits. Do you think people won't try and sue these new drug companies for things? "My son got high and died because..." "Lung damage from pot..." "Herion caused a...". The money saved would just be put into even more stress on the legal system. Crime wouldn't go down either. Since new companies would need higher prices to pay legal bills, as well as high government taxes to pay to have the suits heard, the cost of legal drugs would go up. People would look for cheaper alternatives. Do you doubt they'd use the old system of dealing?
The results: MORE people on HARMFUL substances and NO drop in crime or COST.
Doesn't seem like a good deal. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt there would be undue stress on the legal system from such things as that. There would obviously be warnings akin to those tabacco companies must put on their packaging, not to mention age limits similar to those used for tabacco and alchohol. That would definately cut down on any lawsuits that could be made regarding such things.
Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.
How many illegal cigarette dealers have you EVER seen? Cigarettes are taxed up the wazoo. It's still WAY cheaper to buy in the store than illegal distribution would be. Do you know how much effort it takes to sell drugs illegally? There's a reason why that stuff is so expensive, and it's not because it's that difficult to grow or manufacture.
[edit - had to make my "pffft" longer to accurately describe the sound I made. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ]
As has been said before the government would end up making more money just because of how heavily taxed such substances would be, yet it would still be much cheaper then said substances are going for now.
if they did this, drugs would get around so bad its ridiculous...
So eating E is just as reasonable as hanging yourself to have groovy feelings caused by the lack of oxygen. The fun in destroying yourself doesn't last long...
I can understand wanting to restrict the general public's access to certain really hazardous substances, but saying that they can't even be prescribed by doctors (as mentioned, E was used therapeutically before it was made illegal) is just ridiculous.
not entirely true..
and I thought it was serotonin rather than dopamine.
but your points a pretty good one.
who was it... plato (?) that said... "moderation in all things"
So eating E is just as reasonable as hanging yourself to have groovy feelings caused by the lack of oxygen. The fun in destroying yourself doesn't last long...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh yes, our government propaganda hard at work. <a href='http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_info7.shtml' target='_blank'>get educated before posting</a> also try this one <a href='http://thedea.org/neurotoxicity.html#h' target='_blank'>clicky</a> I doubt you would take the time anyway, I guess MTV is the leading authority on the matter these days
QUOTE (Thansal @ Aug 26 2003, 04:28 PM)
5) E, well there is a problem, not enugh known about it and the point is basicaly drop some and then go to a Rave (or something) then we gota deal with dehidration (another problem)
Actually it was used in Germany as a therapeutic drug since 1972 or so. It is very useful in a controlled setting for treating people with multiple personality disorders. As well as a few other mental illnesses. It was never meant to be used as a party drug, and I truly feel sad for all of the people this drug could have helped if it did not get abused. (MDMA has been around since before WW1) Since it became popular in the early 80's it was put on the list of controlled substances in 1985. Most Emergency Room visits relating to MDMA are actually caused by the things drug dealers add to the pills to make more money.
To connect that to this topic, the US government has spent 25.6 billion dollars on the war on drugs as of 8/26/03 I forgot but I think its in the range of 30-40 billion a year. Most of that money is pocketed by the bureaucrats that propitiate the "war on drugs" only a fraction is spent on actually fighting the so called "war"
So until you can show these bureaucrats how they can make 30-40 billion per year with legalization, it will never happen.
This is the primary reason so many false facts are distributed about the use and effect of drugs, the DARE program in California is a prime example, because the graduates of the Drug Abuse Resistance Education were 80% more likely to do drugs then the people who never took the classes (primary reason being: them finding out the facts they learned were inflated or untrue all together).