<!--QuoteBegin--venomus+Aug 29 2003, 08:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (venomus @ Aug 29 2003, 08:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This may be flamebait, but I do think your preoccupation with copyright laws borders on the obsessive. Do you really expect lawyers to come crawling out of the woodwork just by someone releasing an unofficial custom map of non-commercial mod, which just happens to use textures from a 3 year old (and not incredibly successful) game?
I don't know if any of you have played some of the numerous custom map packs for Quake and Quake 2, but the authors of some of these view the entire genre of FPS games as a big texture candy store. AFAIK their legal fees are not that much higher than anyone else's ... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't even think he's obsessed and I'm the one he yelled at. Ha ha. I see why he said what he said and I can tell that he works with this kind of stuff all the time because he seems very passionate about it. Passion and Obsession are totally different things. Though passion for something could lead to Obsession over time maybe. He was just angered by my ignorance and really just wanted to straighten me and everyone else out about what can and cannot be done with WADs and that you should always know that copyrights do exist and they should be heeded, that's all. I think this is a very informative topic because I'm sure many people think like I do, that you can use whatever you want basically. This is not the case as I found out earlier today.
On topic: I like this GC Idea it sounds very fun and I hope you get to go ahead with it.
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkATi+Aug 29 2003, 09:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Aug 29 2003, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->He was just angered by my ignorance and really just wanted to straighten me and everyone else out about what can and cannot be done with WADs and that you should always know that copyrights do exist and they should be heeded, that's all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sup ATI -- saw your sig and laughed <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--XP-Cagey+Aug 29 2003, 11:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XP-Cagey @ Aug 29 2003, 11:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DarkATi+Aug 29 2003, 09:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Aug 29 2003, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->He was just angered by my ignorance and really just wanted to straighten me and everyone else out about what can and cannot be done with WADs and that you should always know that copyrights do exist and they should be heeded, that's all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sup ATI -- saw your sig and laughed <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, at least I can make fun of it NOW but at the time I was ashamed, *hid in a dark corner mumbling, j00z can use wadzorz... j00z can...* ha ha.
EDIT: I should have expected it from the "Keeper of the Mapping Guidelines". Ha ha your status or whatever they call that like I'm "Foul Beast" is hilarious everytime I see it I laugh.
So XPCagey, can you point me and OneSneakYmousE to a credible link that shows that retail mod/game wads are free to use for HL development? So we can end our little debate.
<!--QuoteBegin--Parasite+Aug 30 2003, 12:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Parasite @ Aug 30 2003, 12:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So XPCagey, can you point me and OneSneakYmousE to a credible link that shows that retail mod/game wads are free to use for HL development? So we can end our little debate. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Parasite. Did you read his L O N G post? I think that settled it. The word is, though nothing would most likely come of him making a GC map with the GC WAD it is best to ask Sierra (The Publisher) about it first just to be on the safe side.
P.S. Your Avatar and Sig pic are Pimp Daddy Parasite, yummy!
<!--QuoteBegin--Parasite+Aug 29 2003, 10:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Parasite @ Aug 29 2003, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So XPCagey, can you point me and OneSneakYmousE to a credible link that shows that retail mod/game wads are free to use for HL development? So we can end our little debate. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I haven't found an official listing -- Ken Birdwell of Valve apparently posted to a mailing list that used to be archived at topica.com (EDIT: that might be what's listed on the first page of the topic, note that Ken says they haven't heard from Sierra yet at the point he wrote it), but it appears that the entire mailing list has been flushed from the topica.com database.
The hearsay post that gives what Ken Birdwell apparently posted is here: <a href='http://www.chatbear.com/board.plm?a=viewthread&b=9&t=422,1035684952,31292&s=0&id=331434#4' target='_blank'>http://www.chatbear.com/board.plm?a=viewth...s=0&id=331434#4</a>
Note that Gunman is on the list. If the list is accurate, Rewolf must have entered an agreement with Valve--note that Ken's list was pending permission from Sierra.
Neither the Half-Life EULA bundled with 1.1.1.0 or the Hammer 3.4 EULA discuss distribution of artwork. The Half-Life EULA just says you need written permission from Valve to do any modification; the HL SDK EULA gives permission to distribute modified object files (dlls) for mods only and the Hammer EULA gives permission to create Half-Life levels using Hammer and distrubute them to licensed Half-Life users only.
I think an email to Ken Birdwell explaining that tropica died and asking for an answer or to Autolycus asking for an official article on the VERC is probably the way to get an authoritative answer.
My reply wasn't aimed at Cagey actually, or even the person who brought up the subject of copyrights in the first page of this thread. It was more of a response to the tendency (which I have noticed on several occasions) for ideas to get shot down if there is so much of a sniff of commercially released resources being involved. Sorry if it came across as a personal attack.
So even if using the wads from Gunman had not been 100% in accordance with the letter of the law, I don't believe this automatically would have made it 'wrong', and amateur mappers should feel free to give themselves a small amount of leeway. This is just my own personal opinion. Please do not label be as a freeloading cretin who has no respect for the work of professional game artists.
Comments
I don't know if any of you have played some of the numerous custom map packs for Quake and Quake 2, but the authors of some of these view the entire genre of FPS games as a big texture candy store. AFAIK their legal fees are not that much higher than anyone else's ... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't even think he's obsessed and I'm the one he yelled at. Ha ha. I see why he said what he said and I can tell that he works with this kind of stuff all the time because he seems very passionate about it. Passion and Obsession are totally different things. Though passion for something could lead to Obsession over time maybe. He was just angered by my ignorance and really just wanted to straighten me and everyone else out about what can and cannot be done with WADs and that you should always know that copyrights do exist and they should be heeded, that's all. I think this is a very informative topic because I'm sure many people think like I do, that you can use whatever you want basically. This is not the case as I found out earlier today.
On topic: I like this GC Idea it sounds very fun and I hope you get to go ahead with it.
~ DarkATi
Sup ATI -- saw your sig and laughed <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sup ATI -- saw your sig and laughed <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, at least I can make fun of it NOW but at the time I was ashamed, *hid in a dark corner mumbling, j00z can use wadzorz... j00z can...* ha ha.
EDIT: I should have expected it from the "Keeper of the Mapping Guidelines". Ha ha your status or whatever they call that like I'm "Foul Beast" is hilarious everytime I see it I laugh.
~ DarkATi
Parasite. Did you read his L O N G post? I think that settled it. The word is, though nothing would most likely come of him making a GC map with the GC WAD it is best to ask Sierra (The Publisher) about it first just to be on the safe side.
P.S. Your Avatar and Sig pic are Pimp Daddy Parasite, yummy!
~ DarkATi
I haven't found an official listing -- Ken Birdwell of Valve apparently posted to a mailing list that used to be archived at topica.com (EDIT: that might be what's listed on the first page of the topic, note that Ken says they haven't heard from Sierra yet at the point he wrote it), but it appears that the entire mailing list has been flushed from the topica.com database.
The hearsay post that gives what Ken Birdwell apparently posted is here: <a href='http://www.chatbear.com/board.plm?a=viewthread&b=9&t=422,1035684952,31292&s=0&id=331434#4' target='_blank'>http://www.chatbear.com/board.plm?a=viewth...s=0&id=331434#4</a>
Note that Gunman is on the list. If the list is accurate, Rewolf must have entered an agreement with Valve--note that Ken's list was pending permission from Sierra.
Neither the Half-Life EULA bundled with 1.1.1.0 or the Hammer 3.4 EULA discuss distribution of artwork. The Half-Life EULA just says you need written permission from Valve to do any modification; the HL SDK EULA gives permission to distribute modified object files (dlls) for mods only and the Hammer EULA gives permission to create Half-Life levels using Hammer and distrubute them to licensed Half-Life users only.
I think an email to Ken Birdwell explaining that tropica died and asking for an answer or to Autolycus asking for an official article on the VERC is probably the way to get an authoritative answer.
So even if using the wads from Gunman had not been 100% in accordance with the letter of the law, I don't believe this automatically would have made it 'wrong', and amateur mappers should feel free to give themselves a small amount of leeway. This is just my own personal opinion. Please do not label be as a freeloading cretin who has no respect for the work of professional game artists.