I think the problem is that two major changes were made at the same time that push people in opposite directions. First, higher evolutions were made available at one hive, pushing people to save up and evolve into those bigger things. This is encouraged even more by rfk, which generally allows a skulk to get res faster than a gorge. The other major change was giving all aliens res at the same rate, creating the necessity of multiple gorges. In 1.04, having too many gorges at the beginning was neither fun nor productive, so it didn't happen. In 2.0 (and all of the patches), it is fun to save up for higher evolutions, but it is necessary for some players to give up that opportunity and become a gorge. What is fun and what is necessary to be successful have changed from being the same to being different, and that is creating the bad environment in pub games.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Keep the current system IMO. Builders have that warm feeling in their belly that they're making the win possible. Gorges are unsung heroes. Onos get the applause, but who made the onos existence possible? Us builders.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well said sir. For the more strategically minded, gorging is indeed extremely rewarding, and yes, often we don't get the recognition for it. But that doesn't matter so much when you realise at the end of a hard fought battle that it was your decisions that allowed your team to get where they are.
If you see your gorges doing a good job, tell them so. We appreciate it. Some people get their kicks from charging in and smashing up a TF nest, but don't forget those that allowed you to get to the stage where you could. We're all dependant on each other.
I respect and undestand what you are saying man, but I have never really seen that problem.. At least, not very much. Its understood that the gorge is a temporary class now...just like a skulk really. I agree that a lot of people wont go for the good of the team and put up a chamber or a hive when they can, and that is really annoying at times. But that would take an entire team of players NOT going gorge to do any damage.
And IMO, gorges are a blast to play..weither it is the building of structures, the artillery BB support or the combat medic feel of a gorge rush.... Gorges are a blast to play.
I know this sounds bad.... but try a new server. Come to 38.114.3.95 anytime and I can almost assure you wont want find that problem anywhere near as much as you currently do. Try new servers... A lot of them are plagued by permanant newbies that dont care about the team. But on my server, its too fun to go gorge and build things to resist. Sure, we usaully get one or two onos savers, but they help more than hurt the team.
I love beeing a support gorgy and the reward that goes with it.
A simple thank you is all it takes to keep me a happy gorge <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I like gorging and helping my team. If I start the match on time and get the 25 initial res, I go gorge, drop an RT, and usually STAY as gorge. In all the alien games I've played since 2.0 came out, I've had at least one other gorge on my team besides myself, usually two. Sometimes even more, but they aren't perma-gorges.
I liked the 'one gorge' concept more, however. Back in the day, one gorge got the lion's share of res and got it faster, so he could be the go-to guy (gorge) for putting up towers and res. Let's face it, the maps are not huge enough to require more than two gorges, max. Usually just one, if he's not lallydagging around.
In 1.04 it was harder to battle-gorge (babblers? bleh!), but easier to defend (webs available earlier). Now the gorge is getting less res and is geared more towards assault since that bile-bomb has been given to him. I've adapted to it, but admittedly I play aliens a lot less.
I hear you loud and clear, I am always finding my self in the exact smae situation and being the only gorge isn't alot of fun at times! I agree with you on #1, #2, and REALLY #3.
I love being a gorge, maybe because I like to play it safe, or make sure that the Aliens have an territorial advantage, and I hate seeing other newbie Gorge building Defenses poorly, or in stupid locations.
When I play as thr Gorge I will spend most of my time pressing "C" to look over the map and where the Areas of Interest are and what sections I can block off with a WoL to keep the Marines from getting to other areas. I am a very tactical Gorge, but the fact the res doesn't come in unless you have 5 RTs or lots of RFKs, makes being a gorge a painfully long task!
The Number of Greedy players is increasing and less and less ppl are willing to guard the gorge or even spend their 100 res on chambers, hives or defense, when they can just go Onos and have more fun!
I have said it from the start, 1 of every RFK the players get should go to the pool, so everyone gets to enjoy it, that would make the greedy rambos kharaa players helpful, because they are helping the team and not just them selves!
there was a plugin back in 1.0x called giveres. maybe if that was reimplemented it would make fulltime gorging more viable. of course you'd have to ask for res from players and depend on ther generosity. but it also enhances teamwork.
The biggest problem I have with many Gorges is when u get an @sshole who puts every single chamber at a wrong position, in great quantitys.. then when I wanna build a kick-**** defensive wall, after 1 or 2 OC's it states there are too many structures of that type availlable, or a tight corridor is completely filled up, making it impossible for Onos to get through, and more major booboos like this.
If you do not know how a Gorge can be used to its full potential , <b>please</b> , Gorge only to put up resource towers and hives, and look at more experienced Gorges @ work.. learning stuff as u go along
What really nags me about playing a gorge is other people.. They sit they're yelling at the gorges to build 3x of each chamber, while they just save up for Onos.
And you're a gorge, gorges who can't get rts very fast, yet they are skulks racking up kills, not carefull for res nodes or the team.
I had my suspicions about the "multiple gorges viable" prior to 2.0 release and voiced them a few months back. In essence it was what Zek said: with 2.0 gorge system, gorging is a chore that is put on people who don't necessarily want it. I don't think there is a solution to it with the current res system.
I don't personally enjoy gorging much. I have no objections to taking a few hits for the team and building some of the infrastucture. It's just that with most of the other players hoarding res, I find myself in a situation where I need to swap my personal enjoyment to the success of the team and skip doing the part of NS I enjoy most and use my res to put up hive and chambers while others save for Onos and Fades.
One thing I've been thinking about: 3 shares for gorges wasn't intuitive and created problems when too many people went gorge. However, with the new system where all evolutions are unlocked from the start, there would be less pressure on going gorge in the early game since most people seem to like the battle evolutions better... However, the problem of 3 shares not being intuitive and simple in the way Flay wants to have things, stays.
I forgot about the R4K sharing idea.. Yeah, a lot of people have been suggesting that for a while now and I think it would fix a lot of things. If every kill gave each alien 1 res then it would slow down things like Onoses and the hive, give gorges more res without forcing them to skulk, and most important allowing the res hoarders to help the team too. That way less gorges might be viable since more skulks create more R4K and give more res to the gorge. I've always thought that R4K was a factor in creating the alien greed we see so often, and splitting it would lessen the problem created by players who won't gorge.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3 shares for gorges wasn't intuitive and created problems when too many people went gorge.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[Random idea]
Why not have RFK go into a pool given only to gorges? This would give the team as a whole a boost from kharaa rambos as whilst they're off doing what they enjoy, the gorges get a bit of a boost and can get essential structures up. Now not only are the rest of the team helped by the gorges, but the gorges are helped by the rest of the team.
Feel free to dissect/destroy/whatever <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
RFK should be split among all aliens. It can't go to gorges only, cuz then you still have people going gorge to save up for other lifeforms.
BTW I <b>ABSOLUTELY HATED</b> the old system... gorging was very unfun because I <b>never got to gorge</b>. There was always some guy going "I'M GORGE" and "OMG THAT NUB WENT GORGE KICK BAN", when you actually tried to drop a res tower instead of going fade.
Thing is, the same people "call gorge" every round and you end up NEVER being able to play that class. Most of the time it was admins or people that knew admins so you can't just ignore them and gorge anyway. Going back to the old system is no good unless you have admin rights to enforce yourself as the only gorge.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stormy+Aug 28 2003, 12:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stormy @ Aug 28 2003, 12:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why not have RFK go into a pool given only to gorges? This would give the team as a whole a boost from kharaa rambos as whilst they're off doing what they enjoy, the gorges get a bit of a boost and can get essential structures up. Now not only are the rest of the team helped by the gorges, but the gorges are helped by the rest of the team. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have considered that also, but the problem with that is, you will have players go gorge just to take the res and then use it to go ONOS. If you give 1 res to everyone with RFK then you would not be able to abuse the community res for kills!
I haven't found it to be too bad being a gorge. I set up "Marine processing plant" with a couple strategically placed O chambers and the whatever the chamber du jour is. Then I bait marines into it and watch my res climb! When done at the proper location it can give you an icredible map control and make you a whole lotta res. The fun is find ing the good places to do it and where to build.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you will have players go gorge just to take the res<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However, by going gorge, there will be less RFK coming in...
Eh, well like I said, random idea. I admit it does rely too much upon teams actually working together intelligently and having a variety of lifeforms, so for pubs this is probably already out the window <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sadly, it's fairly rare that a good proportion of the team will go gorge willingly. I USED to love gorging and thought 2.0 would make it even better, but now I more often find it to be a chore, as many others in this thread have stated.
The problem that many teams have is pretty much a <a href='http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/PRISDIL.html' target='_blank'>prisoner's dilemma</a>. If everyone gorges and drops a resource tower and some defenses, the entire team will have tons of resources and be able to afford higher life forms fairly soon. If SOME people instead hoard for onos, they can go onos fairly early, while the ones who gorged are way behind on res. If NOBODY gorges, then nobody can go onos.
In other words, nobody benefits unless SOMEONE is altruistic and goes gorge - but the altruistic one more often than not gets the shaft while the selfish ones prosper. (Assuming that being stuck at skulk/gorge is "the shaft" and going onos is "prospering" - I know not everyone likes going onos, but I think it's a pretty good majority that does.)
<!--QuoteBegin--[p4]Samwise+Aug 28 2003, 02:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([p4]Samwise @ Aug 28 2003, 02:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (Assuming that being stuck at skulk/gorge is "the shaft" and going onos is "prospering" - I know not everyone likes going onos, but I think it's a pretty good majority that does.) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Chalk me up as one of those who doesn't like it. Onos is just plain boring.
I can already play a slow, lumbering beast that just charges in and starts attacking simply by joining marines and getting HA. Why would I want to do that as an alien?
Give me a ladder making gorge, wall climbing skulk, flying lerk, or blinking fade and I can have a lot more fun than with the tub-o-smash that is an onos.
<!--QuoteBegin--[p4]Samwise+Aug 28 2003, 03:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([p4]Samwise @ Aug 28 2003, 03:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The problem that many teams have is pretty much a <a href='http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/PRISDIL.html' target='_blank'>prisoner's dilemma</a>. If everyone gorges and drops a resource tower and some defenses, the entire team will have tons of resources and be able to afford higher life forms fairly soon. If SOME people instead hoard for onos, they can go onos fairly early, while the ones who gorged are way behind on res. If NOBODY gorges, then nobody can go onos.
In other words, nobody benefits unless SOMEONE is altruistic and goes gorge - but the altruistic one more often than not gets the shaft while the selfish ones prosper. (Assuming that being stuck at skulk/gorge is "the shaft" and going onos is "prospering" - I know not everyone likes going onos, but I think it's a pretty good majority that does.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <b>Look no further.</b>
Samwise pretty much sums up the "gorge situation" right there.
I (hopefully not naively...) believe this rampant res hogging is attributed to growing pains in 2.01d. Like you have said so well, cooperation is ultimately far more efficient and way more benefitcial to the long term goal then the selfish way. And if your stupid, stubborn, silly, selfish, res hoggin alien <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> self gets killed the entire team will be severly, if not <b><i>fatally</b></i> set back.
This is a <b>teamplay issue</b> people and I refuse to back off. Yes, aliens should have DM elements inherant to its' design but at core NS is a teamplay mod and as we have seen what aliens can <i>do</i> with teamplay. They can secure victory much quicker (bigger res pool, everyone gains big evos) and with furious aggression (pack rushes, good support). This is a basic NS skill, <b>teamwork</b>. And the aliens will be <b>forced</b> to organize and play as a team as the marines get better and from my experience with 2.01d, marines are getting better and they are taking games with conviction when aliens play solo teeny superstar with a thirst for personal glory.
I am an altruistic gorge and you can be as bossy, ungrateful, pain-in-the-onos butt requester that has not invested one drop of res for the team as you please but I will proudly stand my ground and continue to save and build those precious RTs, upgrade chambers, defence, and hives that you whine for...
...but <i>mark my words</i>, this is the way the aliens have to adapt and you will adapt or be eliminated for that is natural-selection. Will you survive? I know I will.
I do it because it is the spirit of 2.01d and of this game. I do it because altrustism is teamwork in its' purest form. I do it because NS is teamwork. I do it because it is right. And I will continue to do it.
<i>*raises hug of brew*</i> "Cheers to Teamwork and thank you from the bottom of my little gorgy heart to all you other altruistic gorges for keeping the dream alive."
Personally I love being gorge ... specifically a battle gorge. Too many people are still in the 1.04 mindset of gorges being in the back lines ... instead of the front lines helping the fighting. 3 skulks moving around is a fairly powerful early force ... add a good gorge to that and it can win the game early. People who whine about gorges not getting enough res obviously need to get to the front lines and join the fighting. Before I used to drop an RT and immediately go skulk again ... but now I stay gorge and help my team create constant neverending offensives.
Personally, I never onos unless my team desperately needs one ... I find I can do much more for the team as either a lerk, gorge, or fade.
I like the multiple gorge thing. Its annoying when some other gorge plops a movement when the whole team wants defense or sens, but with some quick thinking you CAN make up for that.
I also hate a gorge who will put up an upgrade for his own benefit. Other than that, mulitple gorges is HELLA FUN!
The idea is to allow anyone to quickly go gorge, build an O, or rt and go back to skulk. Idealy a single gorge with 2 hives could take out an electrified rt, build an rt, fortify, it, and skulk back.
Comments
Well said sir. For the more strategically minded, gorging is indeed extremely rewarding, and yes, often we don't get the recognition for it. But that doesn't matter so much when you realise at the end of a hard fought battle that it was your decisions that allowed your team to get where they are.
If you see your gorges doing a good job, tell them so. We appreciate it. Some people get their kicks from charging in and smashing up a TF nest, but don't forget those that allowed you to get to the stage where you could. We're all dependant on each other.
At least, not very much. Its understood that the gorge is a temporary class now...just like a skulk really.
I agree that a lot of people wont go for the good of the team and put up a chamber or a hive when they can, and that is really annoying at times. But that would take an entire team of players NOT going gorge to do any damage.
And IMO, gorges are a blast to play..weither it is the building of structures, the artillery BB support or the combat medic feel of a gorge rush....
Gorges are a blast to play.
I know this sounds bad.... but try a new server. Come to 38.114.3.95 anytime and I can almost assure you wont want find that problem anywhere near as much as you currently do. Try new servers...
A lot of them are plagued by permanant newbies that dont care about the team. But on my server, its too fun to go gorge and build things to resist.
Sure, we usaully get one or two onos savers, but they help more than hurt the team.
A simple thank you is all it takes to keep me a happy gorge <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I liked the 'one gorge' concept more, however. Back in the day, one gorge got the lion's share of res and got it faster, so he could be the go-to guy (gorge) for putting up towers and res. Let's face it, the maps are not huge enough to require more than two gorges, max. Usually just one, if he's not lallydagging around.
In 1.04 it was harder to battle-gorge (babblers? bleh!), but easier to defend (webs available earlier). Now the gorge is getting less res and is geared more towards assault since that bile-bomb has been given to him. I've adapted to it, but admittedly I play aliens a lot less.
/me taps nose!
I hear you loud and clear, I am always finding my self in the exact smae situation and being the only gorge isn't alot of fun at times!
I agree with you on #1, #2, and REALLY #3.
I love being a gorge, maybe because I like to play it safe, or make sure that the Aliens have an territorial advantage, and I hate seeing other newbie Gorge building Defenses poorly, or in stupid locations.
When I play as thr Gorge I will spend most of my time pressing "C" to look over the map and where the Areas of Interest are and what sections I can block off with a WoL to keep the Marines from getting to other areas.
I am a very tactical Gorge, but the fact the res doesn't come in unless you have 5 RTs or lots of RFKs, makes being a gorge a painfully long task!
The Number of Greedy players is increasing and less and less ppl are willing to guard the gorge or even spend their 100 res on chambers, hives or defense, when they can just go Onos and have more fun!
I have said it from the start, 1 of every RFK the players get should go to the pool, so everyone gets to enjoy it, that would make the greedy rambos kharaa players helpful, because they are helping the team and not just them selves!
If you do not know how a Gorge can be used to its full potential , <b>please</b> , Gorge only to put up resource towers and hives, and look at more experienced Gorges @ work.. learning stuff as u go along
They sit they're yelling at the gorges to build 3x of each chamber, while they just save up for Onos.
And you're a gorge, gorges who can't get rts very fast, yet they are skulks racking up kills, not carefull for res nodes or the team.
I don't personally enjoy gorging much. I have no objections to taking a few hits for the team and building some of the infrastucture. It's just that with most of the other players hoarding res, I find myself in a situation where I need to swap my personal enjoyment to the success of the team and skip doing the part of NS I enjoy most and use my res to put up hive and chambers while others save for Onos and Fades.
One thing I've been thinking about: 3 shares for gorges wasn't intuitive and created problems when too many people went gorge. However, with the new system where all evolutions are unlocked from the start, there would be less pressure on going gorge in the early game since most people seem to like the battle evolutions better... However, the problem of 3 shares not being intuitive and simple in the way Flay wants to have things, stays.
[Random idea]
Why not have RFK go into a pool given only to gorges? This would give the team as a whole a boost from kharaa rambos as whilst they're off doing what they enjoy, the gorges get a bit of a boost and can get essential structures up. Now not only are the rest of the team helped by the gorges, but the gorges are helped by the rest of the team.
Feel free to dissect/destroy/whatever <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
BTW I <b>ABSOLUTELY HATED</b> the old system... gorging was very unfun because I <b>never got to gorge</b>. There was always some guy going "I'M GORGE" and "OMG THAT NUB WENT GORGE KICK BAN", when you actually tried to drop a res tower instead of going fade.
Thing is, the same people "call gorge" every round and you end up NEVER being able to play that class. Most of the time it was admins or people that knew admins so you can't just ignore them and gorge anyway. Going back to the old system is no good unless you have admin rights to enforce yourself as the only gorge.
I have considered that also, but the problem with that is, you will have players go gorge just to take the res and then use it to go ONOS.
If you give 1 res to everyone with RFK then you would not be able to abuse the community res for kills!
However, by going gorge, there will be less RFK coming in...
Eh, well like I said, random idea. I admit it does rely too much upon teams actually working together intelligently and having a variety of lifeforms, so for pubs this is probably already out the window <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
The problem that many teams have is pretty much a <a href='http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/PRISDIL.html' target='_blank'>prisoner's dilemma</a>. If everyone gorges and drops a resource tower and some defenses, the entire team will have tons of resources and be able to afford higher life forms fairly soon. If SOME people instead hoard for onos, they can go onos fairly early, while the ones who gorged are way behind on res. If NOBODY gorges, then nobody can go onos.
In other words, nobody benefits unless SOMEONE is altruistic and goes gorge - but the altruistic one more often than not gets the shaft while the selfish ones prosper. (Assuming that being stuck at skulk/gorge is "the shaft" and going onos is "prospering" - I know not everyone likes going onos, but I think it's a pretty good majority that does.)
Chalk me up as one of those who doesn't like it. Onos is just plain boring.
I can already play a slow, lumbering beast that just charges in and starts attacking simply by joining marines and getting HA. Why would I want to do that as an alien?
Give me a ladder making gorge, wall climbing skulk, flying lerk, or blinking fade and I can have a lot more fun than with the tub-o-smash that is an onos.
In other words, nobody benefits unless SOMEONE is altruistic and goes gorge - but the altruistic one more often than not gets the shaft while the selfish ones prosper. (Assuming that being stuck at skulk/gorge is "the shaft" and going onos is "prospering" - I know not everyone likes going onos, but I think it's a pretty good majority that does.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Look no further.</b>
Samwise pretty much sums up the "gorge situation" right there.
I (hopefully not naively...) believe this rampant res hogging is attributed to growing pains in 2.01d. Like you have said so well, cooperation is ultimately far more efficient and way more benefitcial to the long term goal then the selfish way. And if your stupid, stubborn, silly, selfish, res hoggin alien <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> self gets killed the entire team will be severly, if not <b><i>fatally</b></i> set back.
This is a <b>teamplay issue</b> people and I refuse to back off. Yes, aliens should have DM elements inherant to its' design but at core NS is a teamplay mod and as we have seen what aliens can <i>do</i> with teamplay. They can secure victory much quicker (bigger res pool, everyone gains big evos) and with furious aggression (pack rushes, good support). This is a basic NS skill, <b>teamwork</b>. And the aliens will be <b>forced</b> to organize and play as a team as the marines get better and from my experience with 2.01d, marines are getting better and they are taking games with conviction when aliens play solo teeny superstar with a thirst for personal glory.
I am an altruistic gorge and you can be as bossy, ungrateful, pain-in-the-onos butt requester that has not invested one drop of res for the team as you please but I will proudly stand my ground and continue to save and build those precious RTs, upgrade chambers, defence, and hives that you whine for...
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <i>*blank stare*</i>
...but <i>mark my words</i>, this is the way the aliens have to adapt and you will adapt or be eliminated for that is natural-selection. Will you survive? I know I will.
I do it because it is the spirit of 2.01d and of this game. I do it because altrustism is teamwork in its' purest form. I do it because NS is teamwork. I do it because it is right. And I will continue to do it.
<i>*raises hug of brew*</i>
"Cheers to Teamwork and thank you from the bottom of my little gorgy heart to all you other altruistic gorges for keeping the dream alive."
<i><b>*CLiNK!*</i></b>
Personally, I never onos unless my team desperately needs one ... I find I can do much more for the team as either a lerk, gorge, or fade.
I also hate a gorge who will put up an upgrade for his own benefit. Other than that, mulitple gorges is HELLA FUN!
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->