It doesnt matter how many times you've seen an onos die, thats not relevant, if where it is doesnt get hit that IS a problem, and its not like we're talking about small parts like legs or horns or some other small sticking-out appendage, I dont think that would really bother anyone, but its a HUGE chunk of their body that doesnt get hit. Sure you might not notice it in the heat of battle while its running all over the place and all you can concentrate on is aiming at its center mass, but when theres a structer that the onos dwarfs and your shooting at him whiles hes behind it and NOTHING hits it, you know something is seriously messed up (Its little hit box is behind the structer while its modeled body sticks completely out on all angels, which looks rediculouse) or like I said the many many times when their hidding around the corner with regen getting shot at and nothing happens to'em, and it explains why so many times you run out of ammo before you SHOULD have been able to kill it with a HMG or SG, even the GL, Ive shot so many nades at onoses before only to see the nades dissappear behind its huge model and explode harmlessly behind them, then I usualy end up running for my life behind some nearby marine.
This explains why shooting it in the head from the side hasn't been working. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'll know to put my shottied point blank into the side of these Cows. Tried it the other night and it worked like a charm.
I hope HL2 will allow this to be fixed. HL just wasn't made for huge models in MP. There is no reason to defend ill-sized hitboxes: they are bad, without doubt, if only because they are non-intuitive and confusing. But there doesn't seem to be any way to fix them, so what can you do?
Are skulks the same way: can you shoot "over their heads" and still hit them as if they were really an invisible Gordon Freeman standing upright?
Apos as has been said earlier: the hitboxes are what counts but only if they are inside the bounding box. There are a limited number and shapes of such player hulls and the onos is to big(and elongated)too be accomodated completely inside one. The bounding boxes must have a square base (I vaguely recall that they do not rotate with the model so you would be permanently wider in one spatial direction no matter how you turn, if I remember wrong and they do turn with the model you wouldnt want them elongated anyway since you wouldn't be able to turn a skulk around in a tight spot.).
Doesn't HL2 have per polygon hit registration for hitscan weps? Heard some rumors about that earlier but they might well turn out to be exactly that.
That explains why i can shoot a fade at short range with a level 3 HMG and it dies easily,but a fade that is running away from me while strafing and jumping can survive an entire clip fired at it.
That also explains why it took me at least 100 level 3 HMG bullets at nearly pointblank range to redempt an onos(for some reason he seemed to have problems devouring me,level 10 strafe skill helped too).
I try to keep the bounding box in mind when I'm fighting Onos, and try to aim my grenade launcher correctly, but it's still almost a lost cause. I think I'm going to go make a new model for the Onos that's a gordon-sized rectangle with the big word "ONOS" on it. Should help me out.
Ok it could be possible that this problem is cut and dry, and there is ALWAYS only a small valid target area. But what I'm saying is that it seems hard to believe that Onos die so easily, even though they have a relatively small hittable area.
I have 0 problems with skulks, lerk, gorge, or fade hit detection. Where I aim, I hit. Simple, but with the Onos you have to aim at its center (if it's facing you, it's easier). Most players are not aware about the onos screwy boxes and just shoot at it like a big barn (because it is) but it's a lot smaller than it seems.
I take it this is going to be fixed one day, along with appropriate balancing measure....I hope <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
If the Onos hit box was made to fit the Onos, it would be like 3x bigger. The Onos would definately need an HP increase then, because it's not imbalanced right now. I don't think it's fixable though- I think there's only like 2 sizes of players in HL. Crouching and standing person sizes. Maybe there was another but I forget.
<!--QuoteBegin--Bosnian+Aug 30 2003, 12:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian @ Aug 30 2003, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't get it. I can shoot the hive model anywhere and the damage registers but the onos only in the middle. Why? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe it has been said that player bounding boxes or whatever they are, are what actually register the hits within the hitboxes. Things that AREN'T players like hives aren't a problem, but with players it's a whole other story.
<!--QuoteBegin--JohnnySmash+Aug 30 2003, 07:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JohnnySmash @ Aug 30 2003, 07:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...I think there's only like 2 sizes of players in HL. Crouching and standing person sizes...
-JohnnySmash and several others <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> HL can only have 4 hulls, ie player sizes. One is already reserved for something that I cant remember right now, one is for crouching people(and skulks etc), one for standing people(and fades etc), and one is free for mod-makers to make use of- onos.
here is a picture of the onos hitbox... one from the side. just for those people who need pictures to remember everything like me. you will get the clue where the hitbox is located <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
it's just a shame that it's not intuitive, it's not good for new players to the game that think that they should be damaging something by shooting it in the rear ot nose from the side, but don't do anything.
<!--QuoteBegin--Align+Aug 30 2003, 03:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Aug 30 2003, 03:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--JohnnySmash+Aug 30 2003, 07:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JohnnySmash @ Aug 30 2003, 07:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...I think there's only like 2 sizes of players in HL. Crouching and standing person sizes...
-JohnnySmash and several others <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> HL can only have 4 hulls, ie player sizes. One is already reserved for something that I cant remember right now, one is for crouching people(and skulks etc), one for standing people(and fades etc), and one is free for mod-makers to make use of- onos. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Skulks, lerks, and gorges have crouching hulls, fades and onos have standing ones. Even if they CAN make one for the onos, the pictures show that it isn't the case.
I was wondering why noone had made a skin of "target hotspots" (have the hitbox bodyparts bright marine-interface blue or something)..... or if thats considered an exploit then why noone had made one so that the target areas looks like targets.
IE an onos would have heavily armoured shoulders, skulks would be armoured around the front, etc.
<!--QuoteBegin--taboofires+Aug 30 2003, 01:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires @ Aug 30 2003, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Skulks, lerks, and gorges have crouching hulls, fades and onos have standing ones. Even if they CAN make one for the onos, the pictures show that it isn't the case.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> CROUCHED onos have the standing human hull. Standing onos have one of their own.
How else can you explain the fact that onos have to crouch to get into some places marines can run into upright just fine?
However, I think what has been presented so far shows it isn't a hull issue at all. Give the thread that was linked a try. TeoH gives a good explanation.
When humans enounter a problem they can't solve there are only 3 possible courses of action:
1. Give Up 2. Denial 3. Cheat
the NS devs don't seem the like the type who would engage in the first two so I assume that they will cheat if they have to (and when they can). Couldn't some sort of metamod be employed, as is to make devour work? Can we not just create an invisible NPC entity attached to the onos with the proper size? Can we raid Valve headquarters and steal the source to make it work (gaining nifty copies of whatever has been done on HL2 in the process [assuming HL2 actually exists])? Speak to us O Great Devs!
yeah... about the size of a standing fade, LA, HA... or any other standing model in HL (CS models, DoD models, Gordon Freeman model <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
For the last time: There are 3 (or better 2 as the 3rd does nothing) tracehulls for _players_ (other entities can have any desired ones but we're talking about players). One in the size of a standing human and one of the size of crouching human. That is an engine limited thing and can't be modified by a coder without access to the engine source code (which the ns devs don't have). An onos has the standing hull when doing nothing and the crouching hull when crouching. Hitboxes don't do anything on players, there are so called hitzones which apply to them (they're defined in the code).
here are the results of those shots, after mr. onos has moved out of my way <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hehehe mr onos.... hehehe just cracks me up
there seems to be glaring hitbox problems with this game. a couple of times an onos's entire head was sticking out round a corner and we shot at it but no blood appeared and the onos didn't move coz he wasn't getting hit.
also about fades, when they duck and swipe at a building you have to run around and shoot them in the back and not at their upper body sticking out from behind the building.
the fact that Valve hasn't fixed this bug which is their responsibility tells me that maybe we shouldn't bother to mod for Valve games anymore. that's why i'm attempting to make a new engine for NS.
Comments
I'll know to put my shottied point blank into the side of these Cows. Tried it the other night and it worked like a charm.
Are skulks the same way: can you shoot "over their heads" and still hit them as if they were really an invisible Gordon Freeman standing upright?
Doesn't HL2 have per polygon hit registration for hitscan weps? Heard some rumors about that earlier but they might well turn out to be exactly that.
That also explains why it took me at least 100 level 3 HMG bullets at nearly pointblank range to redempt an onos(for some reason he seemed to have problems devouring me,level 10 strafe skill helped too).
-Lee
-JohnnySmash
I believe it has been said that player bounding boxes or whatever they are, are what actually register the hits within the hitboxes. Things that AREN'T players like hives aren't a problem, but with players it's a whole other story.
-JohnnySmash and several others <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
HL can only have 4 hulls, ie player sizes. One is already reserved for something that I cant remember right now, one is for crouching people(and skulks etc), one for standing people(and fades etc), and one is free for mod-makers to make use of- onos.
-Lee
-JohnnySmash and several others <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
HL can only have 4 hulls, ie player sizes. One is already reserved for something that I cant remember right now, one is for crouching people(and skulks etc), one for standing people(and fades etc), and one is free for mod-makers to make use of- onos. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulks, lerks, and gorges have crouching hulls, fades and onos have standing ones. Even if they CAN make one for the onos, the pictures show that it isn't the case.
IE an onos would have heavily armoured shoulders, skulks would be armoured around the front, etc.
CROUCHED onos have the standing human hull. Standing onos have one of their own.
How else can you explain the fact that onos have to crouch to get into some places marines can run into upright just fine?
However, I think what has been presented so far shows it isn't a hull issue at all. Give the thread that was linked a try. TeoH gives a good explanation.
1. Give Up
2. Denial
3. Cheat
the NS devs don't seem the like the type who would engage in the first two so I assume that they will cheat if they have to (and when they can). Couldn't some sort of metamod be employed, as is to make devour work? Can we not just create an invisible NPC entity attached to the onos with the proper size? Can we raid Valve headquarters and steal the source to make it work (gaining nifty copies of whatever has been done on HL2 in the process [assuming HL2 actually exists])? Speak to us O Great Devs!
If so, how did they fix it?
here are the results of those shots, after mr. onos has moved out of my way <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hehehe mr onos.... hehehe just cracks me up
also about fades, when they duck and swipe at a building you have to run around and shoot them in the back and not at their upper body sticking out from behind the building.
the fact that Valve hasn't fixed this bug which is their responsibility tells me that maybe we shouldn't bother to mod for Valve games anymore. that's why i'm attempting to make a new engine for NS.