Alien V Alien, Rine V Rine
Koll
Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14988Members
Join Date: 2003-03-28 Member: 14988Members
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A few problems in how you'd implement it though:
1) Use existing maps with only 3 hives?
a) Meaning noone would ever have 3-hive abilities
b) Allows useage on existing maps
2) New maps, with 6 hive locations
a) Have certain hives for each team, or allow building any hive?
b) Allows full alien abilities
This also goes for the marines; Use existing maps, in which case where will 2nd marine start be? or have new maps purpose built?
3) How would you differentiate between aliens/marines on the opposing side?
I'm sure there are more points to be taken into account, this was a rather brief brainstorm, but even so I personally would quite like to see this at some point; certainly has potential.
The idea has been mentioned and i think flya has been wanting to eventualy get around to putting MvM and AvA in, but the problem is combat, research, and the tech trees would be very weird, imagine skulks trying to kill skulks. Also another full set of artwork would be requiered. If there is a NS for HL2, i think that will be the soonest you will be seeing MvM and AvA if at all.
2) This also goes for the marines; Use existing maps, in which case where will 2nd marine start be? or have new maps purpose built?
3) How would you differentiate between aliens/marines on the opposing side? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) It would be funny to see some cloaked skulks trying to kill some other cloaked skulks.
2) I think new maps would have to be made
3) This is prolly the best question ever
And yes, i'd like to see that happen too, i'm just pointing out what i think would not fit in.
Care to tell me where I can find this novel you're talking about?
This being I believe the main problem. IIRC I do remember reading once upon a time that the game had been coded to allow it, but yes, differentiating between the two sides is propably <i>the</i> main problem.
For marines, well, probably the usual red/blue sides ala TF or any team-based DM. But for kharaa? With their myriad colour schemes? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Maybe something similar to AvP2; having a pheromone 'aura' to distinguish between different strains of alien. That or, as mentioned, new colour schemes. I'l return to the 'Genocide' novel again for an example, as the rogue strain of aliens were a reddish hue.
I picked it up a fair while ago in the Sci-Fi section of WH Smiths. Author is David Bischoff, published by Millennium, ISBN 0-75281-743-4
Millennium also publish the Predator and Aliens vs Predator novel series, I believe.
Now that sounds an interesting proposition. Allows either side to get 2-hive, or push back and have 3-hive whilst still having an opponent. Good call, sir.
<a href='http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1569711968/104-0048268-5524715?v=glance' target='_blank'>Amazon link</a>
Essentially, alien fights alien due to unforeseen circumstances. In NS terms, perhaps a TSA bioweapon designed to have the Bacterium destroy itself results in warring aliens. Your battle takes place in one of the weapons tests.
"imagine skulks trying to kill skulks"
Ever see alien v alien in AvP2? Its a joust. M v M would work without much changing (new skins probably, and your background is that one of the big companies has decided to take advantage of a recent TSA victory).
It could work in playability terms, and storyline. MvM maps wouldn't need any changes, though gameplay would be nasty when you've to break into a sieged marine base. AvA would need major map overhauls and I don't want to think about the HL engine having to cope with the sheer amount of Chambers.
EDIT: Ah yes, reading the flavour text: Genocide is the fourth of the remastered Aliens trade paperbacks! This remastered edition boasts full-color art, an updated script, a new John Bolton cover, and a gallery of Alien art.
It would appear to be the same storyline. I shall indeed look into the graphic novel series, as the originals are damn good reading.
There's a technical problem of some sort with AvA or MvM. The game will crash if you try to have two of the same team. If ava or mvm was ever made possible, I expect you'll see it turn up first in the so called "fun maps." It would be interesting to see tho.
The aliens are fighting because another queen was created from the original and so another brood became an offshoot. They looked the same but the 'smelled' differently as the book put it. Anyway, it's a good novel all together.
On the 'how would they tell X apart' you could use the same models but give them a different tint. The marines have a main color of green, so just make the majority of green into a red. The same with the Kahraa ( spelling! ), just change them to a purple tint maybe. It looks as if it'll work with the skulk, gorge, lurk and the onos kind of but the fade is mainly black so it's an exception.
The marine vs. marine bases is a problem. You could use a wide range of tactics such as grenade launcher or set up a siege base but then you could always get sieged at the siege base so you'll have to build it 'in secret'. But then counters such as a observatory would create more problems. ( Just think about crossfire between 2 siege bases... )
The same with the aliens. What would stop a skulk from biting an offense chamber to death? What would be the counter to sensor chambers? Sensor chambers - Pheremones/scent of fear? What if my team went Defense chamber first? Does that screw us over? A skulk vs. skulk fight would be entertaining but it would get tedious and annoying like a CS knife fight. Skulk rushes? THAT would be strange and ... screwy.
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Erm, I dont beleive any war we fight are useless, but then again I wont make this a patriotic thread.
Leaving recent history aside (neatly side-stepping patriotic flames), humans <i>have</i> waged utterly pointless wars against each other for many many years, most usually because of religion and/or greed.
And I'll be the first to admit that us Brits have been prime instigators *waves flag*
In practically every MvM, AvA topic ever started, someone always says they cant see the aliens having a reason to fight one another. Imho, it just needs a bit of thought. If the kharaa are THAT mutative, then naturally they would mutate to the point where seperate hive minds would occur and fighting to see which is better would ensue.
It all comes down to taste. If you dont like same species combat, dont play the maps, but dont knock it until you try it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The biggest problem is with the alien side. As someone pointed out, certain chambers would be difficult to counter, Umbra would be a problem, as would OC's, but naturally those bridges will be crossed when we come to them...
Marines take a page from CS and get individual res points for buying their own gear. How do they GET res? By killing opponents. Maybe they can tap into res nodes as well with personal extractors, but that would lead to camping and.. bleh. But anyway. With the res they save up, they can buy their equipment (HA, JP, guns, etc). No structures, because that will majorly complicate things.
For Alien versus Alien, a similar approach. Aliens get their res points in the same fashion (kills or personal extraction) and evolve as they choose, getting all (3rd hive) abilities upon upgrading. They can also use their res to buy any enhancement from the respective groups (movement, sensory, defense). Again, no structures. The gorge would be largely useless and would probably need another role...
That evens everything out, and is very stale :/
As for justifying why marines would fight one another, I had a good reason for it: the other team is not the TSA. They're mercenaries using TSA equipment. Done and done. Why are aliens fighting one another? Two separate hive minds at war. These explanations aren't even necessary if the MvM/AvA follows the plan above, which makes for vanilla deathmatch.
Personally I don't like this setup, but it would make MvM and AvA possible and with little work. The NS team <b>could</b> go balls-out and do AvA MvM the RIGHT way, with new art, maps, and lots of coding, but will it be worth it? AvA/MvM is really not the POINT of NS and I think it would be a minor distraction at best (1 map in a server rotation maybe).
It's also in the wrong forum.
It's also been answered: Flayra would like to eventually implement MvM and AvA, but there is no current timetable for doing so.
And with that, *click*