Standing On The Phasegate

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Comments

  • ManosManos Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1956Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--cybrangl+Sep 2 2003, 06:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cybrangl @ Sep 2 2003, 06:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Now, the escuse of not having turrets is invalid becasue I was experimenting with cloaking.
    Here is the scenerio. Marines had snuk past OCs into the eclipse hive and built a phase/TF/turrets. Our team should be paid more attention, but they didn't. Instead several gorges blocked of both exits with walls of OCs and SCs for the skulks. Marines that wondered outside the hive died in seconds.
    So, I figured I would test out a few tricks. I cloaked and walked (2.01d) into the hive past, not one, not 2, but 3 rows of turrets and 4 marines, onto the phase. Once there I stayed cloaked and told everyone else to rush the place. Since they could not reinforce, the hive fell quickly, all because I could simply stand there.
    Granted, it was cheap, but this just goes to show you that unless you are 100% aware of this, you wouldn't think to look for a cloaked skulk on your phase! These guys had done everything right and I could foil it by simply walking in. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    doesnt obs detect cloaked aliens?? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
    i got a feeling they didnt do everything right.
  • Electrical_TapeElectrical_Tape Join Date: 2003-07-18 Member: 18257Members
    Lol Majin, those pictures were great <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Anyway, standing on the PG I would think is an exploit. Its really not fair, and was unintended.
  • xdeathx2003xdeathx2003 Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16391Banned
    This is not an exploit, and should not be considered an exploit.

    Think about it. In real life, I assume that an alien would have the ability to stand on a phase gate. You can't just tell an alien (in real life, remember) to "stay away from the phase gate. You're exploiting the universe!!11 z0rz."

    The same thing with command chairs. In real life, they would be able to drop whatever they want, whether it be a crap load of medpacks, or a crap load of CCs. Personally, I think that CC blocking is not an exploit. It's annoying, but, hey, deal with it. You can't change the universe or physics just because you don't like it.

    I win.
  • Kid-AKid-A Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--xdeathx2003+Sep 2 2003, 02:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xdeathx2003 @ Sep 2 2003, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is not an exploit, and should not be considered an exploit.

    Think about it. In real life, I assume that an alien would have the ability to stand on a phase gate. You can't just tell an alien (in real life, remember) to "stay away from the phase gate. You're exploiting the universe!!11 z0rz."

    The same thing with command chairs. In real life, they would be able to drop whatever they want, whether it be a crap load of medpacks, or a crap load of CCs. Personally, I think that CC blocking is not an exploit. It's annoying, but, hey, deal with it. You can't change the universe or physics just because you don't like it.

    I win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You can't use real life arguments when talking about <b>imaginary</b> things...
  • MajinMajin Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16829Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--xdeathx2003+Sep 2 2003, 02:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xdeathx2003 @ Sep 2 2003, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The same thing with command chairs. In real life, they would be able to drop whatever they want, whether it be a crap load of medpacks, or a crap load of CCs. Personally, I think that CC blocking is not an exploit. It's annoying, but, hey, deal with it. You can't change the universe or physics just because you don't like it.

    I win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    IRL your mom still buys you shoes with velcro
    J/K
    <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Electrical_TapeElectrical_Tape Join Date: 2003-07-18 Member: 18257Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--xdeathx2003+Sep 2 2003, 02:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xdeathx2003 @ Sep 2 2003, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is not an exploit, and should not be considered an exploit.

    Think about it. In real life, I assume that an alien would have the ability to stand on a phase gate. You can't just tell an alien (in real life, remember) to "stay away from the phase gate. You're exploiting the universe!!11 z0rz."

    The same thing with command chairs. In real life, they would be able to drop whatever they want, whether it be a crap load of medpacks, or a crap load of CCs. Personally, I think that CC blocking is not an exploit. It's annoying, but, hey, deal with it. You can't change the universe or physics just because you don't like it.

    I win. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Never, ever, make the mistake of comparing a game to real life, because your comparison will always be in some way flawed.

    Hehe... you think about it. In real life, 1,000 + years from now when humanity is exploring other galaxies, and a remote ship out in space or an abandon docking port on an industrial planet uninhabited by life is infested by a strange alien presence, do you really think that we would risk mens lives to have them manualy clear out the aliens? Doubtful. We have techniques now, let alone 1,000+ years from now, that would pose little risk to human life, while being much more effective at totally clearing out any life within the compound.

    Considering an NS situation in real life, I would tend to think that some type of easily removable poison gas which is corrosive on living tissue but harmless to the metal alloys the structure is made of would be used in favor of sending marines into the compound to risk their lives. If that for some reason did not work, and you were really desperate to retrieve whatever it is the marines are trying to save, you could detonate a nuetron bomb 300 meters from the structure. Heat and blast damage would be minimal at best, while all living material inside the structure is destroyed. The only reason I would think a group of marines would enter a ship as a first resort, would be if there was some very precious, un-protected living organism that would be destroyed in any kind of large scale eradication effort. But seriously, in 1,000+ years, there will be techniques to do things that we cant even think of today with unpresedented precision.

    Anyway, the point Im trying to make while rambling on and on off topic is, that its fairly useless to compare any aspect of NS to real life, since in real life, its doubtful that marines would ever even enter the structure in question to do battle with a strange alien race.\

    meh.
  • FantasmoFantasmo Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7369Members
    It's an exploit.

    And here is a possible solution I proposed before:

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Solution that does not involve telefraging:

    Add a feature to the PG where if a Marine or Alien is sitting on top of the PG on the other end they get moved off the PG kinda like what /unstuck does.

    Aliens should not be allowed to build structures on the PG or if they do make the structures explode when a marine phases through.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    What about using mines to defend the pg? If a regen onos walks onto the pg, they will be blown up, assuming there are enough. Plop down an observatory, and there is no way any other life form should be able to block the pg for more than a few seconds. This requires making sure that the mines are maintained, but an area that you want to secure needs to be watched. I'm not sure if mines damage marine structures. If they do, then this is probably a bad idea. Otherwise, this should work fine.
  • Cereal_KillRCereal_KillR Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Members
    How about making the marine appear next to the phase? Is it possible?
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Cereal_KillR+Sep 2 2003, 04:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Sep 2 2003, 04:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How about making the marine appear next to the phase? Is it possible? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That is basically what Majin suggested.
  • SnidelySnidely Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Members
    I hate this exploit. It's hard enough to defend locations as it is; marines have neither the benefit of hivesight nor the response rate that aliens enjoy. Phase gates are about the only way they can reasonably hold outposts, and when Kharaa delay marines by sitting on the thing, it kinda makes it redundant.
  • TeflonTeflon Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20289Members
    Marines would get stuck in things, but who cares about them.
  • SnidelySnidely Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Members
    edited September 2003
    I'd rather risk my 'rine getting stuck at the hotspot (but still probably able to fire) than losing the outpost entirely.
  • ProximaeProximae Join Date: 2003-03-22 Member: 14793Members
    edited September 2003
    Instead of debating this can we get a ruling from the dev's? There was a post in the last thread about blocking phasegates that said the dev's previously stated it was not an exploit to build on phasegates <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=45132&st=45' target='_blank'>link to thread</a>. Now CAL says it is an exploit to block using your body. So does that mean that blocking in any way, using your body or a structure, is now considered an exploit?
  • Cereal_KillRCereal_KillR Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--i'm lost+Sep 2 2003, 11:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Sep 2 2003, 11:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Cereal_KillR+Sep 2 2003, 04:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Sep 2 2003, 04:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How about making the marine appear next to the phase? Is it possible? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That is basically what Majin suggested. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I thought he meant like having 5 pads on the phase. I thought more like the game checking where you can fit next to the phase and teleport there.


    IRL you wouldn't have 6 aliens and 6 marines agreeing on trying to eliminate each other after each team has said ready and wouldn't send only 6 marines/ the hive wouldn't make only 6 hive-1 skulks per game.

    Also, people can't respawn.
  • FCCFCC Join Date: 2003-07-16 Member: 18218Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Teflon+Sep 2 2003, 12:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Sep 2 2003, 12:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If standing on the PG is an exploit, then so is knifing eggs to death. If the marines are allowed to fly into my base and quick build a PG and send HAs through, then the marines shouldn't be allwed to knife my egg when I run in their base as a skulk and quick go onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The marines shouldn't be ABLE to fly into your base and quickly build a PG, but they did because your base had no defense. If you let a marine fly into your undefended hive and build a phase gate, then that is your team's fault and not the fault of the phase gate.
  • JaneJane Seriously&#33;? Join Date: 2003-07-01 Member: 17835Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Khaim+Sep 2 2003, 02:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Khaim @ Sep 2 2003, 02:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Regardless of how cheap or stupid it is, standing on an undefended phase Has I believe been confirmed by flay to be an exploit, Meaning, not meant to be in the game.  Cheap tactics and exploits are not the same thing, in this case standing on phases IS an exploit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    We need to get someone to officially state what they think about this, on the forums, this thread, announcements, the exploits page, or something. This way it can start being penalized without people whining about how they thought it was a good tactic....
  • MaxMax Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment Join Date: 2002-03-15 Member: 318Super Administrators, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    <!--QuoteBegin--Jane+Sep 2 2003, 06:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jane @ Sep 2 2003, 06:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We need to get someone to officially state what they think about this, on the forums, this thread, announcements, the exploits page, or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's an exploit and will be addressed in a future patch.

    Max
  • JaneJane Seriously&#33;? Join Date: 2003-07-01 Member: 17835Members, Constellation
    edited September 2003
    /me hugs Max, thank you!

    P.S. we miss you at Linuxmonster <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • TyrainTyrain Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11746Members
    Aliens blocking PG is a exploit and should be addressed.

    Comms using CC's as walls is a exploit should be addressed.

    Two things that are hated on both sides. If both are addressed everyone will live in peace and happines till the end of the world *SMIIIIIIIILE* <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • JaneJane Seriously&#33;? Join Date: 2003-07-01 Member: 17835Members, Constellation
    gees he just said they were working on it....
  • Cereal_KillRCereal_KillR Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Members
    Make CCs unable to be built within the range of another CC. Say it's because of the controls inside and conflicting nanotech stuff, the centers can't be too close or data might go from CC to CC and go on the wrong CC and stuff like that.

    Aliens should be just telefragged. I mean do their bodies act like ours? Can you recognize the same signatures in both of our bodies? I don't have green blood <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • TyrainTyrain Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11746Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Jane+Sep 3 2003, 02:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jane @ Sep 3 2003, 02:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> gees he just said they were working on it.... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sry but I didn't read the whole thing (phew 3 sites at once)
  • Cry_HavocCry_Havoc Join Date: 2003-01-22 Member: 12593Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--FCC+Sep 2 2003, 05:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FCC @ Sep 2 2003, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The marines shouldn't be ABLE to fly into your base and quickly build a PG, but they did because your base had no defense. If you let a marine fly into your undefended hive and build a phase gate, then that is your team's fault and not the fault of the phase gate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And if nothing is there to guard the PG, then too bad as well.

    <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members
    What about using mines?
  • Fortuna_WolfFortuna_Wolf Join Date: 2003-02-02 Member: 13033Members
    I love these people suggesting mines.

    Let me detail how I defend my hive lockdowns.
    10 + turrets
    2 factories, 1 placed in a location so that it'll be safe, and 1 placed directly next to the main phase gate (preferrably by the res node).
    2 phase gates, the main one placed next to the node and a TF, and another in a corner as a backup.
    I electrify the node and main TF if not both TFs because only electricity cuts against umbra and grenades are so nerfed. Then I placed a few mines on the phase, no more than 2 though, becaused around 5 mines will -blow the phase gate up- and 2 is necessary to kill a lerk or gorge.
    Then I have an armoury and a grenadier or HMGer watching the place in HA if I can.

    I Have still seen aliens steam roll these locations via various methods such as the bilebomb rush, the 2 onos and 4 adrenaline healspray gorge and lerk rush, etc.

    If I place just one phase gate the aliens can easily block this, usually an onos is the preferred method. But if an onos isn't available a few skulks and a heal spraying gorge is more than enough, even against 10 turrets. I see aliens do this alot of CoFR. Remember, all it takes is one skulk biting the gate and a gorge or two healspraying him and blocking the turrets. If they have umbra, its even worse. Mining the gate only stops the first skulk unless they all group up and jump on it at the same time, and like said, you can't place more than 2 or 3 mines without blowing the damn gate up for the aliens, so you won't kill them all, let alone an onos.
    I often setup a phase gate at a hive, have 90% of my team through it (except for the ones still spawning nd grabbing ammo)
    setting up a tF and turrets when the aliens attack en masse (this is cofr, btw) and kill all my marines, and with the few feeble turrets shooting at random skulks 4 skulks sit on the gate and eat it while I'm trying to get the marines I just beaconed back in to go through the gate and defend it.

    I don't know where the people here have this idea that if you loose a gate its because you didn't defend it. I had my entire team defending it and turrets there and all the aliens need to do is sit on it for 10 seconds which isn't diffucult.
    I'm currently taking a break from NS until a new version comes out that's a bit more balanced. (I personally prefer playing as marines on 2.0 than 2.01d)
  • MajinMajin Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16829Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Electrical Tape+Sep 2 2003, 02:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Electrical Tape @ Sep 2 2003, 02:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    Considering an NS situation in real life, I would tend to think that some type of easily removable poison gas which is corrosive on living tissue but harmless to the metal alloys the structure is made of would be used in favor of sending marines into the compound to risk their lives. If that for some reason did not work, and you were really desperate to retrieve whatever it is the marines are trying to save, you could detonate a nuetron bomb 300 meters from the structure. Heat and blast damage would be minimal at best, while all living material inside the structure is destroyed. The only reason I would think a group of marines would enter a ship as a first resort, would be if there was some very precious, un-protected living organism that would be destroyed in any kind of large scale eradication effort. But seriously, in 1,000+ years, there will be techniques to do things that we cant even think of today with unpresedented precision. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I was just going to say that.
    Why wouldnt they detonate some kind of Gamma Radiation device to destroy all living tissue.

    So we must draw the conclusion that every outpost and ship has some kind of systems or organic life on them that the TSA doesnt want to destroy!
    We already know that before the Frontiersmen were created, that many ships and outposts were destroyed and the loss of property was becoming a financial nighmare!

    Also we have to understand that the TSA and the governments still dont know what is the direct cause of the bacterial contaminations. The Kharaa just appear on ships and outposts.

    We know from reading that things like this have happened before but on a much closer to hom level, with the nano- tech.
    Whole Planets were destroyed when the nano-tech was first created, becasue of self replication being out of control.

    The nano-tech on ships and outposts may be considered a possible security issue if the Kharaa were ever to adapt to it, so its best that human teams are sent in to clean up the infected locations.
    Teams of soliders are what is used becasue of the fact that True AI, doesnt seem to be devloped yet.

    Certian constrants are keeping the Humans from just DESTROYING the infected areas, so its profitable to send in teams to take care of the problem!
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