Map Specific Strategy
noelephant
Join Date: 2003-02-13 Member: 13518Members
Join Date: 2003-02-13 Member: 13518Members
<div class="IPBDescription">NS_Veil - help please</div> NS_Veil is one of those maps that I tend to lose on when I command. :-/
A big problem I find with this map is the huge distances between resource nodes and hives. Even the two closest nodes to marine start are quite a hike and are frequently destroyed and infested by aliens.
How do you win as a marine commander on this map?
Do you pull off a quick relocation, if so, where?
Early phase tech? Turret farms?
Input is appreciated.
A big problem I find with this map is the huge distances between resource nodes and hives. Even the two closest nodes to marine start are quite a hike and are frequently destroyed and infested by aliens.
How do you win as a marine commander on this map?
Do you pull off a quick relocation, if so, where?
Early phase tech? Turret farms?
Input is appreciated.
Comments
1). Weld up the vents in MS.
2). Setup defenses to cover the side close the alien hive (this is were most of the alien attacks will come from). Build TF and electrify it. Build obs as soon as possible so it can start charging.
3). Build either topographical or west and electrify it (depend which way you are expanding).
4). Move onto the next RT on that same side and cap/elec it.
5). Continue to hive on that far side and secure it.
6). At this point you should have 4 RT's and a hive. Setup phase between hive/MS.
7). Seige out double res from MS (3 seiges for quick destruction of RT's and defenses and then recycle 2 of them).
8). Both marines and aliens should have 4 RT's at this point, but 2 hives will be up and onos on the way.
9). This is where things will get hairy and you will need to improvise according to the alien's strats. I would usually start handing out shotguns at this point and setting up a phase gate/TF outside the middle hive to try to take it down. A good alien grouping can and probably will push you back. To counter this, try to let one marine solo with a shotgun and you might get lucky if he can take down a couple of the RT's during the hive assault. He could also try to setup double res for you, but if you fail to take the hive you will very quickly lose double res to the onos.
10). Watch for an onos to attack MS while the troops are out. I have lost a couple of games from a smart onos attacking at the right time. I will probably start using mine traps (5-10 mines stacked) at the main entrances to MS when onos start appearing.
11). If you can kill the first onos and take down the middle hive, then you are in very good shape to win the game. Don't spend too much time securing the hive, just put down a TF, 4-5 turrets, and PG and move on to the last hive. The aliens might take the hive back, but that will mean less aliens are defending the last hive. Chances are that if the aliens concentrate forces on getting one of the hives back, that you will be able to take down the 3rd hive. If you attack quickly and strongly enough, you will be able to take the hives down quicker than they can set them back up.
12). If your marines can't stick together and kill the onos, then you will most likely lose. Not much you can do about that. If you kill the onos, but have trouble taking the middle hive, then try a quick attack on the remaining alien RT's. This should get them spread out enough (defending/rebuilding RT's) to allow you to try a second assault on the hive.
13). Good luck. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
have 2 teams team 1 and 2 move out to topo and WS. have one person in base to weld up vents and D base. drop AL and go a1, w1 w2 w3. have groups 1 and 2 move onto emergency and overlook, if you CAN cap those, elect them. they'll prolly die a few times. have both teams hit from both sides into nano (dbl rt) PG it up, equip with shotties, pg and shottie the 2 hvies that should be up.
elect RTs if youhave the extra cash and are getting good RFK.
Whoa u can comm and win?
Actually though, I love comming veil. I think I have only lost one game ever comming veil, and that wasn't due to marines not following my orders, but not being able to take down a skulk with several shotgunners. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyway, the basic plan relies on the fact that you can cut off the marine side of the map using two easily accessible choke points! I learned this tactic playing on CoFR, although I'm not sure whom the commander was who was doing it (I was an alien).
I hesitate to give up my tactic, because then aliens will wise up to me and start camping those spots <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Just kidding -- I figure I learned it from someone else and so I should pass it on. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Good luck getting me to disclose my personal ns_lost tactic, though. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The two choke points are east junction, and the backwards 'j' shaped hallway north of the cargo hive. Turret these up, and you get: Topo, skylights, overlook, double res, and a hive nozzle. The aliens get only 2 hive nodes and emergency nozzle. I'd say that's a pretty good deal.
To pull this off you need to have aggressive marines, as well as being able to change tactics when you come up against resistance. Many marines will try to take double res before you set up your defenses -- don't. As soon as you take those choke points, double res will not be able to receive alien backup when you attack it and will fall easily.
Don't forget phase gates and observatories when necessary.
[UCB]Dragonrider
(Now give me a tactic for ns_mineshaft! That is the worst marine map ever. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
TBH, I haven't tried these out yet, so tell me how it goes if you try these strategies. I don't have an exact build order for these strats because, as I said, I haven't tried them yet. BTW the map overview was made by me, and I will be releasing them as soon as I finish the rest of the maps <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
This should help - the large distances that your marines have to travel were causing me some serious issues.
- And yes, I can command and win, although I've been having much less success with it as of late, especially since I have tried it on COFR.... (The other server I generally play on is 2.0, which isn't a pretty sight either. :-P0
Plan accordingly, and otherwise play it like normal.
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heya, where'd you get those nifty overhead map doo hickeys?
btw, nice chokepoints <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Its never about TFing RTs, its about taking chokepoints.
The comm was StoneBurg and the choke points that worked are shown in this Picture. He came up with the strat on CoFR. With these choke points you have cut the map in half. Look at allt he res on the Sub Section hive side the marines could have. If the aliens started there then you have sealed off access to there other two hives. In the other map the aliens can take a detour or a vent and still make it to cargo hive.
AV
<img src='http://www.cofrfps.com/pics/veil.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Aside from these problems, I think it is a good strategy. If marines claim the East Junction chokepoint first and fortify it, they can always work on the lower area later in the game. If they do succeed in taking it and keeping it, It will be relatively easy to clear out the western area, as it will not be possible for aliens to make reinforcements there.
You might also want to establish a siege of cargo hive to avoid a massive ongoing rush from there to your lower chokepoint, and if you succeed, you will have pretty much won the map.
If they do start in tram, you got your work cut out for you. It's EXTREMELY tough to hold refinery with them spawning so close, but if you do, you can cut them off from the entire south section of the map.
I've won mineshaft a few times using this strategy, but remeber: always be flexable, there are always chokepoints to exploit, use situational tactics!
what i usually do right off the bat, is get the vents welded (i know they can be opened back really easy, but that's beside the point) and send HALF (1/2) of my team to west skylights, and HALF (1/2) to topographical; those two locations serve 2 purposes: one, a nice RT. two: chokepoints. by holding/guarding both of these, you effectively secure 3 RTs (rine start included), and keep marine base safe. unless one of these goes down, your base will not see any aliens.
once you hold those two, you can easily continue moving your chokepoint marines along the map
Some simpler advice, though, for simpler games:
1) Do not try to take the double res early on. This is generally suicide, as the double res is very hard for marines to hold early. Rather, you can either take it later, or just siege it from base to deny a bunch of res to the aliens.
2) The alternative to taking real chokepoints is to take control points, of which Veil has many... While Marine Start is far from a few res nodes, locations like the choke between Topo and Emergency, and the area between Overlook and West Sky, are not. They are also far easier to take then the cargo choke.
3) When taking either of the side hives, build your pg base (if you build one) between the side hive and the middle hive, rather than between the side hive and base... It cuts off easy alien access to the hive itself from the rest of the map, and vice versa.
(weld the vents)
1. Half the team to West Skylights, other half to Topo. Cap the nodes.
2. Topo team moves to the chokepoint, West team moves to Overlook.
3. Get TF up in chokepoint and at least 5-8 Turrets, cap overlook.
4. West team moves into subsector hive, chokepoint team stays.
If Aliens are capping/have capped Nano, build a TF in base about now and upgrade it, plant 2 sieges. Make sure to reconfigure your two squads depending on which is getting hit the most (at first this is usually the Topo team, when the TF is up and people are moving into Sub it is usually the West team.
When sieges are up, clear out Nano, but don't cap it. Instead have the team move to the lower right Chokepoint and meet up with the Sub Sector guys who shoiuld head there too. Get the TF up etc. Then you launch "raids" from the Right chokepoint on the E-12 node (don't cap).
As soon as the armory is upgraded you cap Nano (you now have GL's to get rid of the gorges). Don't worry about the Aliens getting a 2:nd hive, you want them to. Better that they spend the res on Hive instead of early Onos. You should have 7 res against aliens 2-3, which will allow you to tech extremely fast. I recommend going a1,w1,PG,MT,a2,a3,w2,w3 or something. PG's at Base and the chokepoints, nowhere else. Just make sure they don't sneak up Sub and you should be ok. (You get armor upg quick to counter the lerks, if they don't get lerks, go for w3 instead due to the long hallways).
Good alien counter against this would be to (with D first) get an early onos to take out the outposts, or (with M first) sneak up Sub Sector and have people teleport there when/if it is attacked. If Marines can hold the chokepoints they *will* win. Holding doesn't just mean not letting them go down, but not letting aliens get past. Once chokepoints are up and running, everyone but 1 or 2 Marines should be there (the others will cap, build and hunt any renegade skulks trying to chomp your res).