<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Sep 5 2003, 11:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Sep 5 2003, 11:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Heh... want to get the same amount of performance as the PNY, and save $270? Take a paperclip and bend it so it makes a big arch. Stick that in the AGP slot. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sorry.. PNY is just one of those 'sub-standard' third-party manufacturers. Friend had bought a PNY MX440, and it REFUSED to work with the Detonators. Had to use the ones on the CD (not even the downloaded ones would work) and it'd randomly reset the display to 640x480 in 4-color mode. Not 16 color, nor 16-bit... 4-color. I believe it was black, mint-green, aquamarine-blue, and red. Convinced him to swap out to an R9600 Pro, and that problem disappeared... but now texturing and T&L stuff screw up a bit. I can't help but blame the cruddy Detonator-derivatives, as the card performs perfectly in another box, and his machine is a fresh wipe/install (though before I got him to swap cards). Need to figure out what was left behind and kill it off, so the Catalyst drivers can work properly. (T&L dying in Warcraft III, UT2K3, and misalignment of the dxdiag textures are the current symptoms, easily caused if rendering components were left behind, and the nVidia pipes took preference in the render-select algorithms)
Otherwise it's wipe/reinstall time, but getting to do it up properly on this run-through. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The irony here is I am using a PNY Geforce 4 Ti 4600 and it is owning everything that is thrown at it :/
Just because ONE card goes wrong doesnt mean the entire company is rubbish. Thats like saying McDonalds is selling poision because one of their burgers made me vomit (true story).
if you need a budget card, go with one of the FX5200's from a well-reviewed company. My ChainTech GF4 64meg Fx5200 runs Unreal 2k3 @ High Details @ 30 FPS, it runs Half-Life @ a steady 60fps (my framerate max), it runs BF1942 @ Medium detail with max draw distance @ about 45 fps, it runs most modern games fine, except for a minor skip issue in UT2k3 that's more due to single channel ram.
Look in Consumer Reports (Your local library should have copies) for Video card reviews. Now they know how to put anything through hell and back and see hoe it performs.
on a side note: Underworld Bloodlines = r0x0r j00 b0x0r2
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Sep 5 2003, 04:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Sep 5 2003, 04:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [b]Care to back that up, Beast? Perhaps a little run-through of Futuremark 2003?[b]
And if you're going for benchmarks, AVOID Tom's *coughselloutcough* Hardware if you'd rather see unpai^H^H^Hbiased results. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *admits defeat in that respect* Games however, So far, Have not taxed it too much yet. Couldn't run unreal 2 in absolute max details, but after tweaking both the framerate and graphics were still perfectly acceptable (still looked very nice.). As for Unreal Tournament 2003, it runs smoothly cruising at 75fps (Locked by my monitor lol). Gets a little bumpy sometimes though. Needent mentiopn how badly it owns half-life/unreal tournament, as with both games, setting AA to 4x (max on gf4 :o) and ansitopic thingy to 8x, and the intelisampling to quality, they still never shifted a frame, and remained at the cap (until I saw a 50 turret turret farm, which cause my fps to not surprisingly, at this detail level, to drop to about 20-40. Hense I run at the wierd !quincunx" antialising settings and 4x ansiotropic filtering (still don't know quit what it does, cept for making things look better. As for unreal tournament, the first game I ever tested on the system, Lets just say I could clock at over 360FPS in some cases......
Max Payne is owned also. The homeworld 2 demo is working fine (graphically) But my aging processor lags it down a bit (and my supa fast 133mz ram! wow!).
As for 3dmark 2001, I can easily get 12k marks if I tweaked my system a bit. This is all from a computer that cost me the sum total of £700 about a year ago (maybe more?) And it is STILL going strong, allthough it's starting to show it's age...as 3dmark 2003 shows. 10fps anyone :/ This is mainly because of the fact it's not Direct X 9
<!--QuoteBegin--Wheeee+Sep 4 2003, 11:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Sep 4 2003, 11:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if you got any FX besides the 5900 and possibly the 5800 ultra, you got burned. Nobody should want to buy a card that performs like a GeForce4 Ti4200 and costs almost twice as much (I'm referring to the 5600, the 5200 is even worse). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have a ti 4600 which is nice but my computer holds it back. my next comp will either have a FX 5900 or a (Brampton Ontario Canadian made) ATI 9800.
But with my luck, they would just come out with a better card a day later.
3D Mark makes me card cry! I can give me pritty good FPS on the first movie (the air battle) but the second movie (the space marines) I get arounf 0 to 5 FPS.
I dont know who but my GF ti 4600 does SHYTE on the 3D mark test.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
The first demo in that set is easily more CPU-intensive than it is GPU-intensive... all the physics in it are done real-time. Flight system, collisions, and all. The second is a much harsher test of the video card.. I usually get 15-25fps on my 9500 Pro, with a T-bird 1.4 backing it. (Oh.. and the first demo looks *sweet* with 6x FSAA and 16x anisotropic filtering... during the intro, I'd thought it was just showing a splash-graphic, until I noticed the watch-hand moving. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
And Tom's has been known to *report* statistics as though they had tested them, while simply presenting the numbers that nVidia hands them, as well as to utilize odd versions of programs specifically tweaked to give one side or the other an advantage. In most cases, so nVidia will still appear to have a decent chance. Hell, it isn't the first time they've used their marketing department to overwhelm a technically superior card (GF2MX/GF2GTS vs. Kyro 2). The difference is, ATI can afford to advertise back, to keep THEIR cards on the store shelves, instead of getting them yanked due to a smear campaign.
<!--QuoteBegin--Venmoch+Sep 5 2003, 06:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Venmoch @ Sep 5 2003, 06:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Problem is if we want a GeForce FX card which is the best manafacturer to go with?
Creative Labs, Leadtek, Gainward etc etc
And the other thing is how the hell do we find out if we have a spare AGP slot and if so where the heck is it (Yes I am a nub to computers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Asus, I?ve been with Asus MoBos and Vids for 3 years and I love em, stable, and if you choose, easy to overclock (jumperless MoBos and the like) but they got good driver/utility support and high manufacturing standards
<!--QuoteBegin--GreyPaws+Sep 5 2003, 05:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GreyPaws @ Sep 5 2003, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Venmoch+Sep 5 2003, 06:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Venmoch @ Sep 5 2003, 06:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Problem is if we want a GeForce FX card which is the best manafacturer to go with?
Creative Labs, Leadtek, Gainward etc etc
And the other thing is how the hell do we find out if we have a spare AGP slot and if so where the heck is it (Yes I am a nub to computers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Asus, I?ve been with Asus MoBos and Vids for 3 years and I love em, stable, and if you choose, easy to overclock (jumperless MoBos and the like) but they got good driver/utility support and high manufacturing standards <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Shuttle MOBOs are the same thing, but cheaper. Never had a problem with them either. Probably not as good as ASUS, but it'll fit your purpose.
In any case, I'm probably going to put some more money in the bank, then pick up a card to play all those purdy DX9 compatible games such as Theif III and HW II, and HLII and .... you get the picture.
I'm shooting for 100-150 bucks... but I'm really not sure what I'm going to pick.
<!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Sep 5 2003, 05:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Sep 5 2003, 05:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Shuttle MOBOs are the same thing, but cheaper. Never had a problem with them either. Probably not as good as ASUS, but it'll fit your purpose.
In any case, I'm probably going to put some more money in the bank, then pick up a card to play all those purdy DX9 compatible games such as Theif III and HW II, and HLII and .... you get the picture.
I'm shooting for 100-150 bucks... but I'm really not sure what I'm going to pick. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> these <a href='http://usa.asus.com/products/vga/v9280td/overview.htm' target='_blank'>cards</a> start at $130 (for 128meg) on <a href='http://www.pricewatch.com' target='_blank'>pricewatch</a> they are dx9 compatible and support DVI (I love it with my new LCD) You wont go wrong and I think its a great card for the cash you want to spend
Comments
Sorry.. PNY is just one of those 'sub-standard' third-party manufacturers. Friend had bought a PNY MX440, and it REFUSED to work with the Detonators. Had to use the ones on the CD (not even the downloaded ones would work) and it'd randomly reset the display to 640x480 in 4-color mode. Not 16 color, nor 16-bit... 4-color. I believe it was black, mint-green, aquamarine-blue, and red.
Convinced him to swap out to an R9600 Pro, and that problem disappeared... but now texturing and T&L stuff screw up a bit. I can't help but blame the cruddy Detonator-derivatives, as the card performs perfectly in another box, and his machine is a fresh wipe/install (though before I got him to swap cards). Need to figure out what was left behind and kill it off, so the Catalyst drivers can work properly. (T&L dying in Warcraft III, UT2K3, and misalignment of the dxdiag textures are the current symptoms, easily caused if rendering components were left behind, and the nVidia pipes took preference in the render-select algorithms)
Otherwise it's wipe/reinstall time, but getting to do it up properly on this run-through. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The irony here is I am using a PNY Geforce 4 Ti 4600 and it is owning everything that is thrown at it :/
Just because ONE card goes wrong doesnt mean the entire company is rubbish. Thats like saying McDonalds is selling poision because one of their burgers made me vomit (true story).
if you need a budget card, go with one of the FX5200's from a well-reviewed company. My ChainTech GF4 64meg Fx5200 runs Unreal 2k3 @ High Details @ 30 FPS, it runs Half-Life @ a steady 60fps (my framerate max), it runs BF1942 @ Medium detail with max draw distance @ about 45 fps, it runs most modern games fine, except for a minor skip issue in UT2k3 that's more due to single channel ram.
And if you're going for benchmarks, AVOID Tom's *coughselloutcough* Hardware if you'd rather see unpai^H^H^Hbiased results.
on a side note: Underworld Bloodlines = r0x0r j00 b0x0r2
Steady 40-60FPS depending on how much is on screen.
Other games are aobut >20.
Do I win the worst 3D card award?
No ok let me get my back-up PC with 3dfx32Mb...
And if you're going for benchmarks, AVOID Tom's *coughselloutcough* Hardware if you'd rather see unpai^H^H^Hbiased results. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*admits defeat in that respect*
Games however, So far, Have not taxed it too much yet. Couldn't run unreal 2 in absolute max details, but after tweaking both the framerate and graphics were still perfectly acceptable (still looked very nice.). As for Unreal Tournament 2003, it runs smoothly cruising at 75fps (Locked by my monitor lol). Gets a little bumpy sometimes though.
Needent mentiopn how badly it owns half-life/unreal tournament, as with both games, setting AA to 4x (max on gf4 :o) and ansitopic thingy to 8x, and the intelisampling to quality, they still never shifted a frame, and remained at the cap (until I saw a 50 turret turret farm, which cause my fps to not surprisingly, at this detail level, to drop to about 20-40. Hense I run at the wierd !quincunx" antialising settings and 4x ansiotropic filtering (still don't know quit what it does, cept for making things look better. As for unreal tournament, the first game I ever tested on the system, Lets just say I could clock at over 360FPS in some cases......
Max Payne is owned also. The homeworld 2 demo is working fine (graphically) But my aging processor lags it down a bit (and my supa fast 133mz ram! wow!).
As for 3dmark 2001, I can easily get 12k marks if I tweaked my system a bit. This is all from a computer that cost me the sum total of £700 about a year ago (maybe more?) And it is STILL going strong, allthough it's starting to show it's age...as 3dmark 2003 shows. 10fps anyone :/ This is mainly because of the fact it's not Direct X 9
I have a ti 4600 which is nice but my computer holds it back.
my next comp will either have a FX 5900 or a (Brampton Ontario Canadian made) ATI 9800.
But with my luck, they would just come out with a better card a day later.
3D Mark makes me card cry!
I can give me pritty good FPS on the first movie (the air battle) but the second movie (the space marines) I get arounf 0 to 5 FPS.
I dont know who but my GF ti 4600 does SHYTE on the 3D mark test.
And Tom's has been known to *report* statistics as though they had tested them, while simply presenting the numbers that nVidia hands them, as well as to utilize odd versions of programs specifically tweaked to give one side or the other an advantage. In most cases, so nVidia will still appear to have a decent chance.
Hell, it isn't the first time they've used their marketing department to overwhelm a technically superior card (GF2MX/GF2GTS vs. Kyro 2). The difference is, ATI can afford to advertise back, to keep THEIR cards on the store shelves, instead of getting them yanked due to a smear campaign.
For a budget card, I bet that the 5200 works just fine though.
<i>Edit:</i> Realized I'm a moron and that I did this benchmark a few days ago. Can't recall my score though...
Creative Labs, Leadtek, Gainward etc etc
And the other thing is how the hell do we find out if we have a spare AGP slot and if so where the heck is it (Yes I am a nub to computers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Asus, I?ve been with Asus MoBos and Vids for 3 years and I love em, stable, and if you choose, easy to overclock (jumperless MoBos and the like) but they got good driver/utility support and high manufacturing standards
Creative Labs, Leadtek, Gainward etc etc
And the other thing is how the hell do we find out if we have a spare AGP slot and if so where the heck is it (Yes I am a nub to computers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Asus, I?ve been with Asus MoBos and Vids for 3 years and I love em, stable, and if you choose, easy to overclock (jumperless MoBos and the like) but they got good driver/utility support and high manufacturing standards <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shuttle MOBOs are the same thing, but cheaper. Never had a problem with them either. Probably not as good as ASUS, but it'll fit your purpose.
In any case, I'm probably going to put some more money in the bank, then pick up a card to play all those purdy DX9 compatible games such as Theif III and HW II, and HLII and .... you get the picture.
I'm shooting for 100-150 bucks... but I'm really not sure what I'm going to pick.
Shuttle MOBOs are the same thing, but cheaper. Never had a problem with them either. Probably not as good as ASUS, but it'll fit your purpose.
In any case, I'm probably going to put some more money in the bank, then pick up a card to play all those purdy DX9 compatible games such as Theif III and HW II, and HLII and .... you get the picture.
I'm shooting for 100-150 bucks... but I'm really not sure what I'm going to pick. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
these <a href='http://usa.asus.com/products/vga/v9280td/overview.htm' target='_blank'>cards</a> start at $130 (for 128meg) on <a href='http://www.pricewatch.com' target='_blank'>pricewatch</a> they are dx9 compatible and support DVI (I love it with my new LCD) You wont go wrong and I think its a great card for the cash you want to spend