Stalemates
Jummeh
Join Date: 2003-04-07 Member: 15276Members
Join Date: 2003-04-07 Member: 15276Members
<div class="IPBDescription">more and more common</div> There is a big problem with ns atm, its when aliens manage to get 2 hive and marines have relocated to the other hive.
Aliens can have all the res nodes but one and control the entire map (res nodes were 1v7), but the final hive is almost imposible to breach. I just came out of a 10v10 (quit after i just got bored) on bast. After the initial fighting, we magaged to secure feedwater (our start) and refinary. However marines managed to turtle themselves into engine, just before I quit i had a look at their defences, 3 armouries with GL spam from all of them, 2 siege, and about 10 turrets lined up at the front.
No matter what we did (we even rushed in w/ 5 cara onos and gorges healing behind) and we managed to kill a couple of turrets :/ Every so often an HA train stomped out but they got masacared. I think the problem atm is that with the onos available at hive 1, they are too weak to break deadlocks like that, the other evolutions last less than 2 seconds in there. I suppose this will be kinda solve in the next update but in a 10 v 10, there is still enough people to have a continuous grenade spam.
I believe there are such hives on most maps where they are relatively easy to hold like this...
Gen hive on caged, eclipse hive on ec, cargo on nothing, furnace hive on one of the new maps (can't rememmber which), and one of the hives on mineshaft. (will post the names when i find out) The problem atm is that aliens have no real ranged weapons until 3rd hive, and no siege weapons at all (onos last about 2 seconds in that kind of fire). So when marines relocate and turtle into their hive there is not a lot the aliens can do.
I suggest to resolve these situations, if one team holds more than say triple the opponent teams res nodes for longer than 30 minutes then the team w/ the more res node should get a default win, and we can start a new more fun game than a 5 hr stalemate.
bah that turned out ot be a rant :/
Aliens can have all the res nodes but one and control the entire map (res nodes were 1v7), but the final hive is almost imposible to breach. I just came out of a 10v10 (quit after i just got bored) on bast. After the initial fighting, we magaged to secure feedwater (our start) and refinary. However marines managed to turtle themselves into engine, just before I quit i had a look at their defences, 3 armouries with GL spam from all of them, 2 siege, and about 10 turrets lined up at the front.
No matter what we did (we even rushed in w/ 5 cara onos and gorges healing behind) and we managed to kill a couple of turrets :/ Every so often an HA train stomped out but they got masacared. I think the problem atm is that with the onos available at hive 1, they are too weak to break deadlocks like that, the other evolutions last less than 2 seconds in there. I suppose this will be kinda solve in the next update but in a 10 v 10, there is still enough people to have a continuous grenade spam.
I believe there are such hives on most maps where they are relatively easy to hold like this...
Gen hive on caged, eclipse hive on ec, cargo on nothing, furnace hive on one of the new maps (can't rememmber which), and one of the hives on mineshaft. (will post the names when i find out) The problem atm is that aliens have no real ranged weapons until 3rd hive, and no siege weapons at all (onos last about 2 seconds in that kind of fire). So when marines relocate and turtle into their hive there is not a lot the aliens can do.
I suggest to resolve these situations, if one team holds more than say triple the opponent teams res nodes for longer than 30 minutes then the team w/ the more res node should get a default win, and we can start a new more fun game than a 5 hr stalemate.
bah that turned out ot be a rant :/
Comments
Perhaps give the aliens their own "siege weapon". That would go a long way to stop stalemates. But an alien siege weapon would be weird. It would have to be organic, innoative, new and cool. Hmm...
Did they try JP with GL/SG ? Were they totally inept?
Perhaps a chamber that erodes any marine buildings in its area of effect (in the same way sensories cloak aliens in their area, or defence chambers heal inside of theirs). The speed of erosion is just over the speed at which a welder repairs buildings.
I have to say, though, that stalemates in 2.01d aren't nearly as bad. The worst I've seen so far is a 1:30 minute game (marines forced into base at ~1 hour).
cuz cara onos plus gorge behind it doesnt sound like the lock breaker...
Unfortuately atm to make any are onos unfriendly would mean turret farming. the onos cant get to where the main objective is and they waste time by having to hack through all the turrets first. Add that to shottys and gls already damaging them they dont last long.
Aliens i think need somesort of weapon that is for 2nd hive and indirect. not just bile bomb cause a gorge just dies v quickly and you cant find a decent spot to start bb. In my game you practically redeemed or died just as you turned the corner and saw their base.
Increase the alien res pool for a gorge again and have some kind of siege weapon that costs lots of res? say 200 res, whos only purpose is to break these sorts of situations? hmm oh my
The game lasted well over an hour.
Essentially the marines managed to hold out in pipeline and marine start for AGES. Many an Onos was killed. :-D
Bile Bombs are great with Celerity and Regen... pop out from a corner, bomb, retreat and heal. It's the Alien GL
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=46018' target='_blank'>Clickeh</a>
GG light damage turrets and an onos, you can take out a turret and a TF with a redemption onos in a field of 15 turrets or so. Personally prefer regen to kill the base once I've got the TF but I was just giving an example <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Aliens can have all the res nodes but one and control the entire map (res nodes were 1v7), but the final hive is almost imposible to breach. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:white'>I found proof that time moves in a circle</span></span>
This exact post, almost to the word, has been posted before!
So this means that these events will take place again, just as they have before!
<span style='color:red'>DAMN TEMPORAL LOOPING</span>
please get off your pedistool some of you. I know it has been mentioned before but what is really being done about it? oni are still dying to hmg/shottys within seconds etc. How does 2.01d solve the stalemate afaik if the marines really turtle in a hive like engine there is very little the aliens can do.
Like this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Sentries and offense chambers now do "light" damage. Light damage does half damage to heavy armor and Oni.
O Resupplying at armory can only go into reserve (addresses end-game grenade spam at marine start). It also now rounds up (so odd-sized clips like the HMG load intuitively)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, you would have lost at least half of your onos, but unless they were dumb players and didn't go after the guys with shotties first, the game would have ended. Even if they had 18 turrets setup, with umbra and onos half damage, it would have been as if they only had 3 turrets. How long does 3 turrets take to kill one onos with regen, much less 9?
Now if you guys didn't get movement and defense first...
Yes, v2.01d does help end the endgame stalemate, but it also introduces a new problem. Good luck holding onto any hives once that first HA train appears. With res nodes and upgrades for marines so cheap, they are starting to play the game as intended: a battle for res nodes. Once they are swimming in res, a HA/HMG train will make short work of any onos that stand in their way to a hive.
I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that 2.01d really goes a long way to balancing 2.0. Now it really depends on strategy and skill.
That's the "Tech up quick and attack hard" part of my comment. If you can get enough res to setup an HA/HMG train before the onos start demolishing your outposts, then you will have a good shot at a win. Provided that your marines don't get "stomped" into submission <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Like this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Sentries and offense chambers now do "light" damage. Light damage does half damage to heavy armor and Oni.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
solution: double the sentries, add lots of HMGers and GLers to fill it out, and voila, turret farm stalemates are essentially what they were in 2.0
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Resupplying at armory can only go into reserve (addresses end-game grenade spam at marine start). It also now rounds up (so odd-sized clips like the HMG load intuitively)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
solution: double the grenade launchers. one person may only be able to fire 4 grenades before reloading, but that doesn't stop 2 people from spamming... just because there can't be the literal steady stream there used to be doesn't mean GL spam is dead... it just means the 'rines actually have to be about 15% more strategic with their grenades...
speaking of gl spam, i wonder whether anyone in 2.0 ever aimed at a door while standing at an armory, typed +use and +attack in console, and left themselves to gl spam overnight... if 3 or 4 ppl did that, it would be lox.
Like this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Sentries and offense chambers now do "light" damage. Light damage does half damage to heavy armor and Oni.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
solution: double the sentries, add lots of HMGers and GLers to fill it out, and voila, turret farm stalemates are essentially what they were in 2.0
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O Resupplying at armory can only go into reserve (addresses end-game grenade spam at marine start). It also now rounds up (so odd-sized clips like the HMG load intuitively)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
solution: double the grenade launchers. one person may only be able to fire 4 grenades before reloading, but that doesn't stop 2 people from spamming... just because there can't be the literal steady stream there used to be doesn't mean GL spam is dead... it just means the 'rines actually have to be about 15% more strategic with their grenades...
speaking of gl spam, i wonder whether anyone in 2.0 ever aimed at a door while standing at an armory, typed +use and +attack in console, and left themselves to gl spam overnight... if 3 or 4 ppl did that, it would be lox. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you had that much res you could make a push out of the hive, unless your goal is to needlessly prolong the game, in which case, go play checkers.