I'd say the shotgun is fine. Its what makes playing marines fun, because as a ten res investment you become a triplehard **** who can take on anything. It does have limitations though - Its range, and ammo capacity. I find my self emptying out and having to reload all the time when i get a shotty. And the reloading singles and repeating doesn't mean the shotgun never runs out of ammo, its much better to have all 8 ready than firing one at a time much slower, especially when you have to put in the amount of damage required to kill fades and onii. Marines need the shotguns as powerful as they are now, because even with them marines aren't winning as many games as they should be, even in 2.01.
I think shotguns are fine against aliens. I can take down shotgunners in LA easy enough as a Skulk. Usually, it just involves parasiting them and attacking when their back is turned. Unless they have armor3, I can usually get them. Shotgunners are tough when you take them head-on. If you take them from the side or behind, especially with umbra, they're not too much of a challenge. Just Skulks can often wear a group of shottie packers down so you only have to face one at their objective.
So, that 10 res weapon isn't a magic wand to counter everything. Just aliens who charge down hallways head-on. If Skulks would parasite once in a while, you could even see them coming. No turning a corner and getting plastered to the wall before you can say, "Chompeh!"
- Very low effective range - Very low rate of fire - Costs 10 resources
That's the drawbacks to shotguns. Balance seem to imply something else. It is "balanced" by costing res. For 10 res, you get what the devs figure is a balanced deal. For more res, you get a better gun (HMG), for no res, you get another gun that is less powerful, but maybe more versatile (lmg).
Shotguns are countered by lerks for example, as stated. No place to lerk? Confined space? Well that os what the shotgun is for. Duh.
Only early in the game will the shotgun have a very big impact, and if the com is dropping shotgun early that is resources he is not spending on things like upgrades and res nodes. Once you kill the guy with the shotgun, and guard it, it goes away, and you have just deprived the marines of a 10 res equipment.
I don't know *where* people get the idea that the shotgun is overpowered. Well, I have a theory.. the only time a shotgun would seem to be "overpowered" is if you are: a) Running straight at the Marine b) Alone (since the slow RoF means that in a 2 on 1 situation you will most likely get him) That would imply that you are a) Not very clever b) Not very teamwork oriented
So yeah. If you run straight at a shotgunner alone, you'll die. Solution? Don't.
With regards to the shotgun being more powerful then the HMG, that's just fiction. The HMG deals out twice as much damage and has ten times the range. And shotguns good against onos? Please. Stomp range is greater then shotgun range and it takes an awful long time to kill an onos with a shotgun instead of an HMG; even if he is nice enough not to stomp you.
Structures? The GL will not only take down a single structure faster, but if there are multiple structures near, it will be N times as effective.
So... HMG is better against aliens, GL is better against structures, LMG and pistol is better at range... the only thing the shotgun is really 100% better then is the knife, but then again, THAT ha sunlimited ammo and a higher RoF. Maybe the knife needs nerfing...
So now when we have cleared that up you can go back to posting about how the shotgun is overpowered. Because as we all know, you're not here to discuss or learn, just to whine. Have a good day <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
shotgun marines can be extremely deadly to anything, it depends on their skill, not the weapon. a shotgun won't turn a nub into a "elite" H4><0rz, it is harder to aim than a LMG. i only give shotguns to marines who get lots of kills because i know it is a good investment, giving one to a noob won't make him aim better.
What is the balancing factor for skulk bites on for example ns_mineshaft (what are you talking about 'ns_origin' is good for lerking and hence good for LMGers). It's not fair all the short range encounters mean marines get pwned *cries like baby and writes moan post on forums*
If you have trouble assualting shotgunners it's because you should have. As an alien frontal assualts are bad, even as an onos hit and run makes you 4x more effective. If you are doing a frontal assualt then ask yourself 'why?'. If iyho you need to make a frontal assualt then 3 skulks will take out any shotgunner if they attack at the same time. If the shotgunner has teammates then you'll need 'combined arms'.
I agree that the 2 shotguns are better than 1 HMG. You'll be pleased to know this has been fixed in 2.01d the slight SG nerf and HMG improvements mean that you'll soon be able to make a post about HMG's being overpowered.
<!--QuoteBegin--Teflon+Sep 6 2003, 02:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Sep 6 2003, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--MrMojo+Sep 6 2003, 02:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Sep 6 2003, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why bother stating the obvious and saying "no it's not true". You won't change your mind. Kid-A said it. Lerks stop shotguns. You can go lerk very early in game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You also need to keep in mind that lerk spores stand a very good chance of being nerfed or moved to hive 3 due to overwhelming support. And you still haven't addressed that one pistol clip = gg lerk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Umm.. Spores USED to be a hive 3 weapon.. now they arent... why would the devs move em back...
Overwhelming support... while NOT EXISTING.. doesent do squat to what the devs want...
SPORES ARE FINE
LERKS > SHOTGUNS
SHOTGUNS=Good...but only if u know how to use it...
Comments
I think shotguns are fine against aliens. I can take down shotgunners in LA easy enough as a Skulk. Usually, it just involves parasiting them and attacking when their back is turned. Unless they have armor3, I can usually get them. Shotgunners are tough when you take them head-on. If you take them from the side or behind, especially with umbra, they're not too much of a challenge. Just Skulks can often wear a group of shottie packers down so you only have to face one at their objective.
So, that 10 res weapon isn't a magic wand to counter everything. Just aliens who charge down hallways head-on. If Skulks would parasite once in a while, you could even see them coming. No turning a corner and getting plastered to the wall before you can say, "Chompeh!"
- Very low rate of fire
- Costs 10 resources
That's the drawbacks to shotguns. Balance seem to imply something else. It is "balanced" by costing res. For 10 res, you get what the devs figure is a balanced deal. For more res, you get a better gun (HMG), for no res, you get another gun that is less powerful, but maybe more versatile (lmg).
Shotguns are countered by lerks for example, as stated. No place to lerk? Confined space? Well that os what the shotgun is for. Duh.
Only early in the game will the shotgun have a very big impact, and if the com is dropping shotgun early that is resources he is not spending on things like upgrades and res nodes. Once you kill the guy with the shotgun, and guard it, it goes away, and you have just deprived the marines of a 10 res equipment.
I don't know *where* people get the idea that the shotgun is overpowered. Well, I have a theory.. the only time a shotgun would seem to be "overpowered" is if you are:
a) Running straight at the Marine
b) Alone (since the slow RoF means that in a 2 on 1 situation you will most likely get him)
That would imply that you are
a) Not very clever
b) Not very teamwork oriented
So yeah. If you run straight at a shotgunner alone, you'll die. Solution? Don't.
With regards to the shotgun being more powerful then the HMG, that's just fiction. The HMG deals out twice as much damage and has ten times the range. And shotguns good against onos? Please. Stomp range is greater then shotgun range and it takes an awful long time to kill an onos with a shotgun instead of an HMG; even if he is nice enough not to stomp you.
Structures? The GL will not only take down a single structure faster, but if there are multiple structures near, it will be N times as effective.
So... HMG is better against aliens, GL is better against structures, LMG and pistol is better at range... the only thing the shotgun is really 100% better then is the knife, but then again, THAT ha sunlimited ammo and a higher RoF. Maybe the knife needs nerfing...
So now when we have cleared that up you can go back to posting about how the shotgun is overpowered. Because as we all know, you're not here to discuss or learn, just to whine. Have a good day <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
By the way, is one shot supposed to take out one skulk? I got eaten a few times even though I landed every pellet on a skulk.
maybe you are just playing against good players.
If you have trouble assualting shotgunners it's because you should have. As an alien frontal assualts are bad, even as an onos hit and run makes you 4x more effective. If you are doing a frontal assualt then ask yourself 'why?'. If iyho you need to make a frontal assualt then 3 skulks will take out any shotgunner if they attack at the same time. If the shotgunner has teammates then you'll need 'combined arms'.
I agree that the 2 shotguns are better than 1 HMG. You'll be pleased to know this has been fixed in 2.01d the slight SG nerf and HMG improvements mean that you'll soon be able to make a post about HMG's being overpowered.
Its only good close combat or against huge aims.
You also need to keep in mind that lerk spores stand a very good chance of being nerfed or moved to hive 3 due to overwhelming support. And you still haven't addressed that one pistol clip = gg lerk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umm.. Spores USED to be a hive 3 weapon.. now they arent... why would the devs move em back...
Overwhelming support... while NOT EXISTING.. doesent do squat to what the devs want...
SPORES ARE FINE
LERKS > SHOTGUNS
SHOTGUNS=Good...but only if u know how to use it...
~Jason